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'One port to rule them all' was a mistake. Instead of being convenient, USB C has become a confusing ordeal of varying capabilities and quality control. It is l

'One port to rule them all' was a mistake. Instead of being convenient, USB C has become a confusing ordeal of varying capabilities and quality control. It is like we've gone back to having many different types of connectors, but it is even worse because they share the same form factor. For any of the devices that use USB C to charge, I only use the cable that came with it when I purchased it. While I complain, I would also like to mention the USB forum's insane naming strategy and non-obvious labeling system. Remember when USB 3 was easily identifiable because of the blue plastic in the port?

cyborgx7 4y ago
I disagree. What we have now is so much better than what we used to have. Better labeling would be a nice improvement, but I'll still take the current state of things over what we used to have.
- bombcar 4y ago
  What we have works better “in general”. But when it fails in specific cases it’s a real pain to diagnose. I immediately order a thunder bolt cable direct from apple the moment I smell any issues, which often fixes it.
  - AdamN 4y ago
    Seems like it's really easy to diagnose - problem with comms over a cable? 1/ is it seated correctly, 2/ are there any obvious defects, 3/ are the specs of the cable and the ports aligned? Having incompatible ports means 3/ disappears but since many cables support multiple specs, it's nice to often have a win when connecting two devices over a cable rather than simply being blocked because the connector isn't compatible physically.
    - happyopossum 4y ago
      > 3/ are the specs of the cable and the ports aligned? This is basically impossible to diagnose as ports and cables are not marked with their supported specs.
      - pbronez 4y ago
        HDMI has the same mess. Ports don’t tell you much.
    - mmis1000 4y ago
      There are actually dedicated detector for detecting charger compatibility or faulty cable. And they are surprisingly not that expensive (rage from 20 to 40 usd depends on spec and vendor). Something like, test the cable and get a resistance of 0.6Ω ? Let's just toss it away. This will definitely fail the usb protocol and stop devices from working properly when charge at full speed. I actually found a few problematic cables with that. These are pretty hard to find out normally because they only fail when charges at full speed (cause the voltage to drop too much) and transmits data at same time. Or test a charger that labels fast charging but don't actually get any at all? The resistance changes a lot when you touched the cable(probably the connection between board and plug breaks)? Toss it away. They are broken or fake, why bother keep them.
      - paulmd 4y ago
        got a brand/model name to look for on amazon or whatever?
        Rediscover 4y ago
        USB C tester, KJ-KayJI 2 in 1
  - dan-robertson 4y ago
    Yeah it was much easier to diagnose ‘wrong cable’ failures before because of the obvious signs of whittling on the connector. (Although even in the USB-C world there are legitimate uses for connector-whittling when there is too much plastic and it stops you from using the next port over).
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >What we have now is so much better than what we used to have. Agree. People are looking at the past with rose tinted glasses or haven't lived through the '90s - '00 tech. Every phone and electronic gadget had their own proprietary dock, cable and connector for data and charging. Even many phones had proprietary connectors for headphones instead of the 3.5mm jack. It was a nightmare. You're phone is running out of battery while you're at the bar/on vacation? Then good luck finding someone with the same Motorola charger. Want to transfer your photos to your PC and your 50pin Sony Ericsson data cable is acting up? Good luck finding a cheap replacement on a short notice. Want to plug in the phone's memory card in your laptop instead? Well, if your laptop doesn't support Sony's proprietary Memory Stick Pro Duo, then you're shit out of luck. And even those proprietary connectors had plenty of issues, and manufacturers weren't even consistent, changing their connectors every few years instead of sticking with one for the long run. What we have today has certainly teething issues, but we're on the right path.
  - KronisLV 4y ago
    > You're phone is running out of battery while you're at the bar/on vacation? Then good luck finding someone with the same Motorola charger. Curiously, many Nokia phones in the same generation seemed to use the same charger form factor, at least when I last checked. Contrast this to me recently finding myself with an Android phone that has USB Type C and only a Nintendo Switch charger. I mean, it looks like it fits and both of them are the same form factor, right? So technically it should charge the phone, too. Except that it didn't (personal experience) and some online claimed that certain phone and charger combinations might cause them to (temporarily) stop working. Ergo, instead of seeing that a Motorola charger won't work for my Nokia device, I was left wondering about whether it's even safe to share the charger given that the connectors do fit. Furthermore, I've seen cases where a USB cable actually doesn't carry data and can only be used for charging, with no clear/apparent indications of this, neither when buying it or when looking at it. The world would be much simpler if one plug had one spec, with no deviations from it being permissible. If it fits, it should work.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
- philistine 4y ago
  Let's start by not naming something USB4 2.0. Can anyone explain how that can be a good idea?
- crazygringo 4y ago
  Exactly. I don't want to go back to computers with 10 different types of ports. Everything moving to USB-C is just fantastic. It does suck that there are necessarily so many cable types (basically boiling down to no/low/hi data x no/lo/hi power) with no obvious good labeling system except for reading specs on a box. But it's also not an issue for most people since most devices come with their own cable. My laptop came with an appropriate expensive USB-C power delivery cord, my USB lamp came with a cheapo one, my expensive monitor came with an appropriate expensive high-data Thunderbolt cable. And the manufacturers usually sell or recommend the appropriate longer length cable if you need that. The issues only arise when you're trying to do more complicated things like use a USB hub, or run extremely long distances. The fact that USB hubs work at all still often seems like a minor miracle to me...
  - cal85 4y ago
    > I don't want to go back to computers with 10 different types of ports … not an issue for most people since most devices come with their own cable What is the value of all the ports being the same if you can’t mix and match cables?
    - paulmd 4y ago
      even if you could, what is the value-add of all the ports being usb-c to begin with? what is my printer going to do with a displayport and pcie channel? obviously it doesn't need to implement those, but, it worked just fine with a USB Type-A 10gbps connector, what is the value-add of pushing that to USB-C at all?
    - crazygringo 4y ago
      Easy -- that my laptop or desktop just has 2-4 thin, high-quality USB-C ports that I can plug anything into. I can plug 2 devices in of the same type, without worrying about there being only 1 port of that type. I don't have to hunt for which port is where. I don't have to worry that this one model of laptop is missing that one type of port because there's only space for 7 on the side with the ports. I could keep going...
    - 4y ago
- userbinator 4y ago
  I still think the USB 2.0 era was the peak.
torginus 4y ago
If you're a techie looking to understand everything, USB-C is a confusing mess - however if you're just a regular person buying a random USB-C dock at the computer store, it's very likely the model you're going to get will support charging, display out and fast enough port speeds that using an external drive won't be painful.
- 8ytecoder 4y ago
  It’s like using a low-bandwidth hdmi cable on a 4K tv. People may not notice that their device isn’t charging well but as long as it’s charging they may not complain. Doesn’t mean the situation is anywhere close to ideal.
  - spockz 4y ago
    I get this with a “cheap” USB c cable from Action. On good days it will train in at 60W charge. More often just at 30W. No problem for my 13” M1 laptop you never notice unless trying to rapid charge or looking at stats. But I did notice it with my old intel mbp it couldn’t stay charged.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Life is better when you stop caring about having something ideal. Because nothing ever has been or ever will be ideal. As soon as we achieve today's ideals, the goal posts will have been moved to something else we can only just not get.
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  Not if you want to connect two 4K monitors at 60Hz, which is not an unusual thing to want to do. (It required that your dock, cables and machine support Thunderbolt 4).
- paulmd 4y ago
  > if you're just a regular person buying a random USB-C dock at the computer store, it's very likely the model you're going to get will support charging, display out and fast enough port speeds that using an external drive won't be painful. sure, but, when they plug it into their computer it's not going to work because almost no motherboards support video or pcie over their type-c connectors. the dock will do it, that doesn't mean the rest of the system will. also, while the cable that comes in the box will work... what if you need a longer one? if they buy a random usb-c cable off the shelf, will it work with video? survey says probably not... especially if they're a typical consumer and buy the cheapest one.
paulmd 4y ago
> While I complain, I would also like to mention the USB forum's insane naming strategy and non-obvious labeling system. battered USB-C users: “You don't know him like I do, he really loves me and he says he's gonna release USB 4 and leave all this confusion behind us forever!” USB-IF: “haha but what if I released usb 4 2.0? … … …” Like c’mon nobody can deny that they’re absolutely doing this shit on purpose, creating confusing standards makes it easier for the forum members to market older crap and pretend it supports the latest thing without incurring the cost of actually supporting it. it's extremely extremely concerning that this is the standards body that the EU has given a government monopoly to develop connectors for our devices. This forum does not have consumer interests at heart, at all, they are looking out for their members, not for you. And like an abusive partner, they aren't gonna suddenly wake up one day and change everything... they exist as an organization so that Asus can make 1% more profit on a laptop by using an older usb controller, not to produce good standards that consumers can understand. Unlike HDMI, there's just no alternative right now. We desperately need "VESA for data connections" and to get the wheel away from the shitters at USB-IF.
- eli 4y ago
  Something something malice and incompetence
  - colordrops 4y ago
    Businesses never sacrifice user needs for the bottom line?
    - eli 4y ago
      Well meaning standards never have confusing names?
      - colejohnson66 4y ago
        If they stopped at USB 3.1 Gen 1 and 2, it’d be forgivable, but then doing USB 3.2 Gens 1, 2, 1x2, and 2x2, then USB4 Gens 2x1, 2x2, 3x1, 3x2, and now USB4 version 2 (what?), it’s hard to give the benefit of the doubt. <rant> Being able to market a USB 3.0 cable as USB4 despite only reaching 5 Gb/s is nothing short of incompetence, and almost certainly deceptive. There’s zero reason to rename old speed capabilities when we still refer to USB 480 Mb/s as… 2.0. If every feature of USB4 is optional besides 5 Gb/s, what’s the purpose of being able to call something “USB4 compatible” besides marketing? It’s the same reason HDMI 2.0 is now 2.1! Because almost every feature that’s new in 2.1 is optional. A few months ago, the media went crazy about Apple listing their new MacBook as supporting HDMI 2.0 when 2.1 had been out for a while, but it turned out they were just being more honest.
sholladay 4y ago
I now regularly charge my laptop, camera, tablet, game controllers, and friends’ devices using the same charging cube or battery and cable. That was impossible and hard to believe even just ten years ago. The only odd one out is the iPhone. I actually like the Lightning connector more - too bad it’s proprietary and has limited speed/power. I never experience incompatibility with my setup, but I’m sure it does happen, especially with budget cables/devices. I’m not sure what cables you’ve tried but I’ve had good luck with Anker and Apple’s newer cables.
marzell 4y ago
I feel like now, even though there may be varying levels of compatibility/capability, at least more devices physically plug into the same cables with at least basic functionality. IMO it's better than having different physical ports that are completely incompatible. Additionally, I've never had any problems with USB-C cables physically failing without extensive abuse. I cannot say the same for on-brand Apple charging cables.
jayd16 4y ago
>For any of the devices that use USB C to charge, I only use the cable that came with it when I purchased it. So at worst, it's break even with the proprietary cable situation we had but with massive upside?
jenia2022 4y ago
Why do you only use the cable that came with it? What's the problem with charging a device over USB-C?
ricardobeat 4y ago
Docks aside, most people don't actually face that many issues. I use a bunch of random USB-C cables for everything, charging the mouse, headphones, connecting a keyboard, charging my MBP, connecting a microphone, camera, audio gear. It just works for almost everything, the only two more finicky devices I have are a Divoom speaker, and the Nintendo Switch which only like their own charger.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  It's really only complex when you are trying to use the newest/most demanding features. The average person is just charging accessories and maybe plugging their laptop in to the monitor with the cable it came with. And for docks you just buy the one that your laptop OEM sells and it all just works. If you have a macbook, just buy the apple adapter and you know it will work. Yes it's a bit expensive, but all the cheaper ones on ebay and amazon are defective.
  - bsder 4y ago
    > If you have a macbook, just buy the apple adapter and you know it will work. This was very much NOT true for the x86 Macbooks. There is a gigantic thread on the Apple forums about it. I have 6 different docks of both TB3 and TB4 generations and none of them work on my x86 Macbook pro while they all work with my Windows and Linux machines. This was so bad that it pushed me to Linux full-time. Has this gotten better on the M1/M2's? Although, I'm not really looking to move back at this point. Going Linux full-time has been quite refreshing for me. I no longer have to buy apps to dork with everything that Apple refused to put useful defaults on.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      I think you might have missed the apple part of the quoted text as I don't believe they have 6 different docks available for sale. This is what I have always used https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-a... Has always worked for me on Intel and Apple chips and have seen it always work for every other mac user.
p1necone 4y ago
Hard disagree. You can now buy a cable that works with everything. That's amazing. Sure the labelling and capability spread is a nightmare to deal with if you want to make sure you can do high wattage charging or high bandwidth data transfer, but it's still much much much better than back in the day when everything had it's own proprietary cable. If you have a big pile of shoddy cables throw them all out and buy a bunch of the same brand that you know works in bulk. Problem solved. It's not that bad.
- Firmwarrior 4y ago
  Except that you have to buy $140 cables if you want them to work for everything..
yarg 4y ago
> I only use the cable that came with it when I purchased it. The EU is working to improve things - by 2024. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IPR32196/deal-on-common-charger-reducing-hassle-for-consumers-and-curbing-e-waste https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IP...
- yarg 4y ago
  Pertinent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect.
stetrain 4y ago
I can put one 100W USB-C PD charger and cable in my bag and charge: - Macbook Pro (work) - Macbook Air (personal) - Friend's PC laptop - Friend's Android phone - iPad - Nintendo Switch - Steam Deck - Panic Playdate - Sony Headphones - Amazon Kindle - Anker battery pack - Fuji Camera I think that's pretty great. Obviously these things aren't all in my travel bag at the same time, but my travel charging setup will work with any combination of them, from all of these different manufacturers, at up to 100W! Sadly I do need to carry a USB-C to Lightning cable for my iPhone and AirPods, but it seems like even those final dominos may fall in the next year or two. I agree that there are definitely shortcomings in how complex things get when dealing with Thunderbolt, Docks, and the naming of different versions, but for charging things are pretty great right now as long as you get chargers and cables that are rated for USB-C PD.
timmaxw 4y ago
I haven't found this to be a problem in practice. I have two USB-C laptops -- a ThinkPad T480s and a MacBook -- and both of them work fine with my USB-C dock, and with each others' chargers. That's all I need.
seanp2k2 4y ago
Yep, the whole “both the source and the sink are capable of 90W PD but for some reason agreed to only do 45w on a cable that also supports 100w PD” is fun too. I just wish I could buy a compact GaN charger that could charge a 16” M1 MBP at full speed that also had other ports USB-A and C ports to charge other stuff. Traveling with more than one charger in 2022 should be unnecessary, but the HYPERJUICE Stackable GaN 100w I have doesn’t charge the MBP anywhere close to 100W, the Satechi charges faster but has no USB-A ports, this Korean brand one with two A and two C I believe maxes at 65W per port, and the EGO EXINNO 240W is pretty picky about cables. The least-bad solution I’ve found is the factory MBP charger, then use the MBP ports themselves as the charger, with A adapters where required :/ We were promised a future with less chargers waste, but I have more incompatible chargers than ever in my box of chargers and cables now.
dv_dt 4y ago
I feel like even if they had kept the wiring identical, physical port differences would have been less confusing.
diffeomorphism 4y ago
I have the complete opposite experience. I now have multiple usb PD chargers that work flawlessly with my laptop, phone, tablet, other people's laptops, ... . This is a really big improvement! Oh, and my screen just has a usb c cable; connect it and you get 4k/60Hz and power and keyboard and mouse without any problems. In contrast my Laptop's HDMI port only does 30Hz (older Thinkpad X1) and to get 60Hz via HDMI I need a usb c to HDMI adapter (which, again, works completeley hassle free). There probably are some cases where usb c vs thunderbolt 3 vs usb 4 would matter, e.g. if you want fast storage and ethernet together with the screen connection. However, that would not have been any easier before usb c.
mrjin 4y ago
It's not really the naming causing issues but rather way too much has been put into the single standard which in turn leads to chaotic naming. I don't really know if there would be enough colors for that. USB-C was meant to fit for all my needs but actually I have more cables than ever as there are so many of them with completely different capabilities. If they were not correctly labeled in the first place, it would be a pain in the neck to sort them out. Unfortunately I learned that the hard way. USB-C Docks are even more chaotic than cables. I returned 3 docks in a row as none of them worked on any of my machines, doesn't really matter cheap or expensive, generic or brand ones. You just don't know which one is going to work. One from around 4 years ago still goes strong, the other one bought later was deadly long time ago. Aforementioned 3 docks returned, one almost got my laptop rebooted the second it plugged in. I never ever had so much problems.

cyborgx7 4y ago

I disagree. What we have now is so much better than what we used to have. Better labeling would be a nice improvement, but I'll still take the current state of things over what we used to have.

bombcar 4y ago
What we have works better “in general”. But when it fails in specific cases it’s a real pain to diagnose. I immediately order a thunder bolt cable direct from apple the moment I smell any issues, which often fixes it.
- AdamN 4y ago
  Seems like it's really easy to diagnose - problem with comms over a cable? 1/ is it seated correctly, 2/ are there any obvious defects, 3/ are the specs of the cable and the ports aligned? Having incompatible ports means 3/ disappears but since many cables support multiple specs, it's nice to often have a win when connecting two devices over a cable rather than simply being blocked because the connector isn't compatible physically.
  - happyopossum 4y ago
    > 3/ are the specs of the cable and the ports aligned? This is basically impossible to diagnose as ports and cables are not marked with their supported specs.
    - pbronez 4y ago
      HDMI has the same mess. Ports don’t tell you much.
  - mmis1000 4y ago
    There are actually dedicated detector for detecting charger compatibility or faulty cable. And they are surprisingly not that expensive (rage from 20 to 40 usd depends on spec and vendor). Something like, test the cable and get a resistance of 0.6Ω ? Let's just toss it away. This will definitely fail the usb protocol and stop devices from working properly when charge at full speed. I actually found a few problematic cables with that. These are pretty hard to find out normally because they only fail when charges at full speed (cause the voltage to drop too much) and transmits data at same time. Or test a charger that labels fast charging but don't actually get any at all? The resistance changes a lot when you touched the cable(probably the connection between board and plug breaks)? Toss it away. They are broken or fake, why bother keep them.
    - paulmd 4y ago
      got a brand/model name to look for on amazon or whatever?
      - Rediscover 4y ago
        USB C tester, KJ-KayJI 2 in 1
- dan-robertson 4y ago
  Yeah it was much easier to diagnose ‘wrong cable’ failures before because of the obvious signs of whittling on the connector. (Although even in the USB-C world there are legitimate uses for connector-whittling when there is too much plastic and it stops you from using the next port over).
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>What we have now is so much better than what we used to have. Agree. People are looking at the past with rose tinted glasses or haven't lived through the '90s - '00 tech. Every phone and electronic gadget had their own proprietary dock, cable and connector for data and charging. Even many phones had proprietary connectors for headphones instead of the 3.5mm jack. It was a nightmare. You're phone is running out of battery while you're at the bar/on vacation? Then good luck finding someone with the same Motorola charger. Want to transfer your photos to your PC and your 50pin Sony Ericsson data cable is acting up? Good luck finding a cheap replacement on a short notice. Want to plug in the phone's memory card in your laptop instead? Well, if your laptop doesn't support Sony's proprietary Memory Stick Pro Duo, then you're shit out of luck. And even those proprietary connectors had plenty of issues, and manufacturers weren't even consistent, changing their connectors every few years instead of sticking with one for the long run. What we have today has certainly teething issues, but we're on the right path.
- KronisLV 4y ago
  > You're phone is running out of battery while you're at the bar/on vacation? Then good luck finding someone with the same Motorola charger. Curiously, many Nokia phones in the same generation seemed to use the same charger form factor, at least when I last checked. Contrast this to me recently finding myself with an Android phone that has USB Type C and only a Nintendo Switch charger. I mean, it looks like it fits and both of them are the same form factor, right? So technically it should charge the phone, too. Except that it didn't (personal experience) and some online claimed that certain phone and charger combinations might cause them to (temporarily) stop working. Ergo, instead of seeing that a Motorola charger won't work for my Nokia device, I was left wondering about whether it's even safe to share the charger given that the connectors do fit. Furthermore, I've seen cases where a USB cable actually doesn't carry data and can only be used for charging, with no clear/apparent indications of this, neither when buying it or when looking at it. The world would be much simpler if one plug had one spec, with no deviations from it being permissible. If it fits, it should work.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
philistine 4y ago
Let's start by not naming something USB4 2.0. Can anyone explain how that can be a good idea?
crazygringo 4y ago
Exactly. I don't want to go back to computers with 10 different types of ports. Everything moving to USB-C is just fantastic. It does suck that there are necessarily so many cable types (basically boiling down to no/low/hi data x no/lo/hi power) with no obvious good labeling system except for reading specs on a box. But it's also not an issue for most people since most devices come with their own cable. My laptop came with an appropriate expensive USB-C power delivery cord, my USB lamp came with a cheapo one, my expensive monitor came with an appropriate expensive high-data Thunderbolt cable. And the manufacturers usually sell or recommend the appropriate longer length cable if you need that. The issues only arise when you're trying to do more complicated things like use a USB hub, or run extremely long distances. The fact that USB hubs work at all still often seems like a minor miracle to me...
- cal85 4y ago
  > I don't want to go back to computers with 10 different types of ports … not an issue for most people since most devices come with their own cable What is the value of all the ports being the same if you can’t mix and match cables?
  - paulmd 4y ago
    even if you could, what is the value-add of all the ports being usb-c to begin with? what is my printer going to do with a displayport and pcie channel? obviously it doesn't need to implement those, but, it worked just fine with a USB Type-A 10gbps connector, what is the value-add of pushing that to USB-C at all?
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    Easy -- that my laptop or desktop just has 2-4 thin, high-quality USB-C ports that I can plug anything into. I can plug 2 devices in of the same type, without worrying about there being only 1 port of that type. I don't have to hunt for which port is where. I don't have to worry that this one model of laptop is missing that one type of port because there's only space for 7 on the side with the ports. I could keep going...
  - 4y ago
userbinator 4y ago
I still think the USB 2.0 era was the peak.

torginus 4y ago

If you're a techie looking to understand everything, USB-C is a confusing mess - however if you're just a regular person buying a random USB-C dock at the computer store, it's very likely the model you're going to get will support charging, display out and fast enough port speeds that using an external drive won't be painful.

8ytecoder 4y ago
It’s like using a low-bandwidth hdmi cable on a 4K tv. People may not notice that their device isn’t charging well but as long as it’s charging they may not complain. Doesn’t mean the situation is anywhere close to ideal.
- spockz 4y ago
  I get this with a “cheap” USB c cable from Action. On good days it will train in at 60W charge. More often just at 30W. No problem for my 13” M1 laptop you never notice unless trying to rapid charge or looking at stats. But I did notice it with my old intel mbp it couldn’t stay charged.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Life is better when you stop caring about having something ideal. Because nothing ever has been or ever will be ideal. As soon as we achieve today's ideals, the goal posts will have been moved to something else we can only just not get.
School-Cotton 4y ago
Not if you want to connect two 4K monitors at 60Hz, which is not an unusual thing to want to do. (It required that your dock, cables and machine support Thunderbolt 4).
paulmd 4y ago
> if you're just a regular person buying a random USB-C dock at the computer store, it's very likely the model you're going to get will support charging, display out and fast enough port speeds that using an external drive won't be painful. sure, but, when they plug it into their computer it's not going to work because almost no motherboards support video or pcie over their type-c connectors. the dock will do it, that doesn't mean the rest of the system will. also, while the cable that comes in the box will work... what if you need a longer one? if they buy a random usb-c cable off the shelf, will it work with video? survey says probably not... especially if they're a typical consumer and buy the cheapest one.

paulmd 4y ago

> While I complain, I would also like to mention the USB forum's insane naming strategy and non-obvious labeling system. battered USB-C users: “You don't know him like I do, he really loves me and he says he's gonna release USB 4 and leave all this confusion behind us forever!” USB-IF: “haha but what if I released usb 4 2.0? … … …” Like c’mon nobody can deny that they’re absolutely doing this shit on purpose, creating confusing standards makes it easier for the forum members to market older crap and pretend it supports the latest thing without incurring the cost of actually supporting it. it's extremely extremely concerning that this is the standards body that the EU has given a government monopoly to develop connectors for our devices. This forum does not have consumer interests at heart, at all, they are looking out for their members, not for you. And like an abusive partner, they aren't gonna suddenly wake up one day and change everything... they exist as an organization so that Asus can make 1% more profit on a laptop by using an older usb controller, not to produce good standards that consumers can understand. Unlike HDMI, there's just no alternative right now. We desperately need "VESA for data connections" and to get the wheel away from the shitters at USB-IF.

eli 4y ago
Something something malice and incompetence
- colordrops 4y ago
  Businesses never sacrifice user needs for the bottom line?
  - eli 4y ago
    Well meaning standards never have confusing names?
    - colejohnson66 4y ago
      If they stopped at USB 3.1 Gen 1 and 2, it’d be forgivable, but then doing USB 3.2 Gens 1, 2, 1x2, and 2x2, then USB4 Gens 2x1, 2x2, 3x1, 3x2, and now USB4 version 2 (what?), it’s hard to give the benefit of the doubt. <rant> Being able to market a USB 3.0 cable as USB4 despite only reaching 5 Gb/s is nothing short of incompetence, and almost certainly deceptive. There’s zero reason to rename old speed capabilities when we still refer to USB 480 Mb/s as… 2.0. If every feature of USB4 is optional besides 5 Gb/s, what’s the purpose of being able to call something “USB4 compatible” besides marketing? It’s the same reason HDMI 2.0 is now 2.1! Because almost every feature that’s new in 2.1 is optional. A few months ago, the media went crazy about Apple listing their new MacBook as supporting HDMI 2.0 when 2.1 had been out for a while, but it turned out they were just being more honest.

sholladay 4y ago

I now regularly charge my laptop, camera, tablet, game controllers, and friends’ devices using the same charging cube or battery and cable. That was impossible and hard to believe even just ten years ago. The only odd one out is the iPhone. I actually like the Lightning connector more - too bad it’s proprietary and has limited speed/power. I never experience incompatibility with my setup, but I’m sure it does happen, especially with budget cables/devices. I’m not sure what cables you’ve tried but I’ve had good luck with Anker and Apple’s newer cables.

marzell 4y ago

I feel like now, even though there may be varying levels of compatibility/capability, at least more devices physically plug into the same cables with at least basic functionality. IMO it's better than having different physical ports that are completely incompatible. Additionally, I've never had any problems with USB-C cables physically failing without extensive abuse. I cannot say the same for on-brand Apple charging cables.

jayd16 4y ago

>For any of the devices that use USB C to charge, I only use the cable that came with it when I purchased it. So at worst, it's break even with the proprietary cable situation we had but with massive upside?

jenia2022 4y ago

Why do you only use the cable that came with it? What's the problem with charging a device over USB-C?

ricardobeat 4y ago

Docks aside, most people don't actually face that many issues. I use a bunch of random USB-C cables for everything, charging the mouse, headphones, connecting a keyboard, charging my MBP, connecting a microphone, camera, audio gear. It just works for almost everything, the only two more finicky devices I have are a Divoom speaker, and the Nintendo Switch which only like their own charger.

Gigachad 4y ago
It's really only complex when you are trying to use the newest/most demanding features. The average person is just charging accessories and maybe plugging their laptop in to the monitor with the cable it came with. And for docks you just buy the one that your laptop OEM sells and it all just works. If you have a macbook, just buy the apple adapter and you know it will work. Yes it's a bit expensive, but all the cheaper ones on ebay and amazon are defective.
- bsder 4y ago
  > If you have a macbook, just buy the apple adapter and you know it will work. This was very much NOT true for the x86 Macbooks. There is a gigantic thread on the Apple forums about it. I have 6 different docks of both TB3 and TB4 generations and none of them work on my x86 Macbook pro while they all work with my Windows and Linux machines. This was so bad that it pushed me to Linux full-time. Has this gotten better on the M1/M2's? Although, I'm not really looking to move back at this point. Going Linux full-time has been quite refreshing for me. I no longer have to buy apps to dork with everything that Apple refused to put useful defaults on.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    I think you might have missed the apple part of the quoted text as I don't believe they have 6 different docks available for sale. This is what I have always used https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-a... Has always worked for me on Intel and Apple chips and have seen it always work for every other mac user.

p1necone 4y ago

Hard disagree. You can now buy a cable that works with everything. That's amazing. Sure the labelling and capability spread is a nightmare to deal with if you want to make sure you can do high wattage charging or high bandwidth data transfer, but it's still much much much better than back in the day when everything had it's own proprietary cable. If you have a big pile of shoddy cables throw them all out and buy a bunch of the same brand that you know works in bulk. Problem solved. It's not that bad.

Firmwarrior 4y ago
Except that you have to buy $140 cables if you want them to work for everything..

yarg 4y ago

> I only use the cable that came with it when I purchased it. The EU is working to improve things - by 2024. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IPR32196/deal-on-common-charger-reducing-hassle-for-consumers-and-curbing-e-waste https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IP...

yarg 4y ago
Pertinent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect.

stetrain 4y ago

I can put one 100W USB-C PD charger and cable in my bag and charge: - Macbook Pro (work) - Macbook Air (personal) - Friend's PC laptop - Friend's Android phone - iPad - Nintendo Switch - Steam Deck - Panic Playdate - Sony Headphones - Amazon Kindle - Anker battery pack - Fuji Camera I think that's pretty great. Obviously these things aren't all in my travel bag at the same time, but my travel charging setup will work with any combination of them, from all of these different manufacturers, at up to 100W! Sadly I do need to carry a USB-C to Lightning cable for my iPhone and AirPods, but it seems like even those final dominos may fall in the next year or two. I agree that there are definitely shortcomings in how complex things get when dealing with Thunderbolt, Docks, and the naming of different versions, but for charging things are pretty great right now as long as you get chargers and cables that are rated for USB-C PD.

timmaxw 4y ago

I haven't found this to be a problem in practice. I have two USB-C laptops -- a ThinkPad T480s and a MacBook -- and both of them work fine with my USB-C dock, and with each others' chargers. That's all I need.

seanp2k2 4y ago

Yep, the whole “both the source and the sink are capable of 90W PD but for some reason agreed to only do 45w on a cable that also supports 100w PD” is fun too. I just wish I could buy a compact GaN charger that could charge a 16” M1 MBP at full speed that also had other ports USB-A and C ports to charge other stuff. Traveling with more than one charger in 2022 should be unnecessary, but the HYPERJUICE Stackable GaN 100w I have doesn’t charge the MBP anywhere close to 100W, the Satechi charges faster but has no USB-A ports, this Korean brand one with two A and two C I believe maxes at 65W per port, and the EGO EXINNO 240W is pretty picky about cables. The least-bad solution I’ve found is the factory MBP charger, then use the MBP ports themselves as the charger, with A adapters where required :/ We were promised a future with less chargers waste, but I have more incompatible chargers than ever in my box of chargers and cables now.

dv_dt 4y ago

I feel like even if they had kept the wiring identical, physical port differences would have been less confusing.

diffeomorphism 4y ago

I have the complete opposite experience. I now have multiple usb PD chargers that work flawlessly with my laptop, phone, tablet, other people's laptops, ... . This is a really big improvement! Oh, and my screen just has a usb c cable; connect it and you get 4k/60Hz and power and keyboard and mouse without any problems. In contrast my Laptop's HDMI port only does 30Hz (older Thinkpad X1) and to get 60Hz via HDMI I need a usb c to HDMI adapter (which, again, works completeley hassle free). There probably are some cases where usb c vs thunderbolt 3 vs usb 4 would matter, e.g. if you want fast storage and ethernet together with the screen connection. However, that would not have been any easier before usb c.

mrjin 4y ago

It's not really the naming causing issues but rather way too much has been put into the single standard which in turn leads to chaotic naming. I don't really know if there would be enough colors for that. USB-C was meant to fit for all my needs but actually I have more cables than ever as there are so many of them with completely different capabilities. If they were not correctly labeled in the first place, it would be a pain in the neck to sort them out. Unfortunately I learned that the hard way. USB-C Docks are even more chaotic than cables. I returned 3 docks in a row as none of them worked on any of my machines, doesn't really matter cheap or expensive, generic or brand ones. You just don't know which one is going to work. One from around 4 years ago still goes strong, the other one bought later was deadly long time ago. Aforementioned 3 docks returned, one almost got my laptop rebooted the second it plugged in. I never ever had so much problems.