5 ms·

Pinephone uses Linux. Pretty straight forward.

amelius 4y ago
The one thing Linux seems to lack is good tried and tested sandboxing of untrusted applications. And of course an ecosystem of developers (e.g. why I can't run my bank app on Linux).
- AnthonyMouse 4y ago
  The traditional way to bootstrap this is to support existing apps. Which in theory for Android is easy -- getting Android apps to run on Linux is what they already do. But then they weaponize inconvenience. You can run the app, but if you want Google Play, they stick you with their terms. SafetyNet blah blah. If you don't, the bank owns the copyright on the bank app so third party devs can't give ordinary users a convenient legal way to install it. So third party alternatives get friction on purpose and can't gain users. And without users people don't develop native apps.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Android apps have no notion Linux even exists, it isn't exposed to userspace as public API.
    - AnthonyMouse 4y ago
      The Android runtime has a notion that Linux exists and in fact runs on Linux. It doesn't take something like Wine to do it. Compare what it would take to get iOS apps to run on a Linux phone.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        Indeed, and someday might be using Zirkon instead of Linux. Blackberry, Jolla and several other Linux + Android attempts have proven that being easy isn't enough.
- fezfight 4y ago
  As usual, the answer to 'why not Linux' is market share. Linux has numerous ways to sandbox applications. What it doesn't have is an advertising campaign promoting it on the desktop/phones. So it has a small number of users in those areas. Which means companies that dont care about freedom won't support it. And thus: banking programs dont run on the pinephone yet. You can, of course, access your bank from a browser.
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    > You can, of course, access your bank from a browser. For now. Do you think the W3C would resist if banks tried to standardise a way for sites to determine if you are running with Secure Boot enabled? This would be part of a system to prevent browsers from spoofing their user agent string / version number. They ignored the protests of those opposed to DRM, and I can't imagine there being as much objection to banks trying to protect users from browser vulnerabilities and kernel-level keyloggers. Of course some Free Software advocates would again "cry wolf", predicting that banks would start to block requests from "unapproved" OSes, but those claims would be dismissed as scaremongering, right up until it started happening (and the wolf started eating their sheep).
    - fezfight 4y ago
      I even think MBNA recently started blocking Firefox. It's a dark time for us all.
least 4y ago
It's a pretty straight forward path to market suicide.
- cowtools 4y ago
  The linux-phone ecosystem seems to be doing alright just by porting applications from the rest of the ecosystem. It's a lot more usable than it was a year ago.
- fezfight 4y ago
  There's no inherent reason, just market effects. It's a positive feedback loop. If you want to be rid of Apple and Google, support Linux. More support will lead to adoption, and thus a bigger market. Or you can continue to genuflect to Apple, thanking them as they lock down and prevent any opportunity to compete with them. It's our collective choice.
  - least 4y ago
    The impetus isn't really on consumers to use half baked products in hopes that it'll improve over time. It's on developers of alternatives to make it at the minimum good enough, but more so actually compelling to use the product. Firefox is losing market share every day. I'd say it's probably "good enough" to be a viable alternative for people that are looking for an alternative but not compelling enough to convince anyone to switch to it. They're fighting against momentum. Linux on phones isn't even at "good enough," let alone compelling.
    - fezfight 4y ago
      Yeah, it's going to take folks to think about what they want from the future, instead of just right now. Free market or fiefdom. Doesn't have to be Linux, but it's pretty clear walled gardens == fiefdoms. Its interesting because you can really see how we end up with dictators in politics. Doesn't need to be a coup, people voluntarily give it up for small conveniences.
      - 4y ago

The one thing Linux seems to lack is good tried and tested sandboxing of untrusted applications. And of course an ecosystem of developers (e.g. why I can't run my bank app on Linux).

AnthonyMouse 4y ago
The traditional way to bootstrap this is to support existing apps. Which in theory for Android is easy -- getting Android apps to run on Linux is what they already do. But then they weaponize inconvenience. You can run the app, but if you want Google Play, they stick you with their terms. SafetyNet blah blah. If you don't, the bank owns the copyright on the bank app so third party devs can't give ordinary users a convenient legal way to install it. So third party alternatives get friction on purpose and can't gain users. And without users people don't develop native apps.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Android apps have no notion Linux even exists, it isn't exposed to userspace as public API.
  - AnthonyMouse 4y ago
    The Android runtime has a notion that Linux exists and in fact runs on Linux. It doesn't take something like Wine to do it. Compare what it would take to get iOS apps to run on a Linux phone.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Indeed, and someday might be using Zirkon instead of Linux. Blackberry, Jolla and several other Linux + Android attempts have proven that being easy isn't enough.
fezfight 4y ago
As usual, the answer to 'why not Linux' is market share. Linux has numerous ways to sandbox applications. What it doesn't have is an advertising campaign promoting it on the desktop/phones. So it has a small number of users in those areas. Which means companies that dont care about freedom won't support it. And thus: banking programs dont run on the pinephone yet. You can, of course, access your bank from a browser.
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  > You can, of course, access your bank from a browser. For now. Do you think the W3C would resist if banks tried to standardise a way for sites to determine if you are running with Secure Boot enabled? This would be part of a system to prevent browsers from spoofing their user agent string / version number. They ignored the protests of those opposed to DRM, and I can't imagine there being as much objection to banks trying to protect users from browser vulnerabilities and kernel-level keyloggers. Of course some Free Software advocates would again "cry wolf", predicting that banks would start to block requests from "unapproved" OSes, but those claims would be dismissed as scaremongering, right up until it started happening (and the wolf started eating their sheep).
  - fezfight 4y ago
    I even think MBNA recently started blocking Firefox. It's a dark time for us all.

least 4y ago

It's a pretty straight forward path to market suicide.

cowtools 4y ago
The linux-phone ecosystem seems to be doing alright just by porting applications from the rest of the ecosystem. It's a lot more usable than it was a year ago.
fezfight 4y ago
There's no inherent reason, just market effects. It's a positive feedback loop. If you want to be rid of Apple and Google, support Linux. More support will lead to adoption, and thus a bigger market. Or you can continue to genuflect to Apple, thanking them as they lock down and prevent any opportunity to compete with them. It's our collective choice.
- least 4y ago
  The impetus isn't really on consumers to use half baked products in hopes that it'll improve over time. It's on developers of alternatives to make it at the minimum good enough, but more so actually compelling to use the product. Firefox is losing market share every day. I'd say it's probably "good enough" to be a viable alternative for people that are looking for an alternative but not compelling enough to convince anyone to switch to it. They're fighting against momentum. Linux on phones isn't even at "good enough," let alone compelling.
  - fezfight 4y ago
    Yeah, it's going to take folks to think about what they want from the future, instead of just right now. Free market or fiefdom. Doesn't have to be Linux, but it's pretty clear walled gardens == fiefdoms. Its interesting because you can really see how we end up with dictators in politics. Doesn't need to be a coup, people voluntarily give it up for small conveniences.
    - 4y ago