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I feel like this isn't a problem that needs solving. The existence of a trademark doesn't prevent you using that trademark (as in referencing it like "this app

I feel like this isn't a problem that needs solving. The existence of a trademark doesn't prevent you using that trademark (as in referencing it like "this app is written in JavaScript".) Clearly Oracle is not defending the trademark, and it is likely its too late to start. Worst case they pick on you, you change your docs to say Ecmascript. Frankly it's safer where it is, than being released so the USPO or something can issue it to someone else. A bigger intrinsic problem is lay-programmers confusing JavaScript with Java, and unfortunately there's no fixing that.

kristiandupont 4y ago
I agree. >Careful law abiding engineers bend over backwards to avoid its use ..do they really? It never occurred to me but maybe I don't qualify as careful and law abiding.
- derefr 4y ago
  It’d probably only be something that’d be relevant to worry about in e.g. technical documentation that ships with a commercial product. That’s the sort of use-case where I’d be worrying about what IP (including trademarks) are being referenced.
deleted 4y ago
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russellbeattie 4y ago
Well... Oracle is lead by the most ruthless, unethical, Machiavellian business person in tech and his devoted acolytes. They probably don't gaf. But it wouldn't surprise me for Oracle to decide on some last minute resurrection of the brand and start legal armageddon. (In fact, calling attention to the situation is probably the worst thing to do...) That said, my guess is all they really want is for it to be a zero cost pain in the ass for Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc. (Yes... You youngsters might think Bezos or Zuck might be gunning for that title, but they got nothing on ol' Larry. He's evil incarnate. There's reasons those other two are always in the news and Ellison is not. Think about it. Pure evil.)
- threeseed 4y ago
  a) Calling a person evil should be reserved for those that commit truly heinous acts. Not simply being a tough, shrewd businessman in an industry where you need to be. b) Oracle's CEO is Safra Katz and has been for a while now. And pretty sure she has a lot more on her plate to worry about i.e. existential threat of AWS/Azure/GCP than fighting some meaningless lawsuit.
  - josefx 4y ago
    > shrewd businessman in an industry where you need to be. Let me put it that way, if he was only as shrewd as "needed" he wouldn't be sitting there with billions to his name. Every billionaire is driving a wealth distribution that makes the lives of millions of people worse.
    - nickserv 4y ago
      It's just a game they play among themselves, 10 points for every million dollars. Nothing really wrong with it, I'm sure lots would play the same way. Really the problem is in government for failing to do its job of protecting the public.
    - simonh 4y ago
      Yet somehow people like this manage to employ and fund the livelihoods of tens of thousands of people, established an ecosystem of skilled engineers, and deliver products that run huge swathes of the economy. I’m no particular fan of Ellison, but I’ve worked for a billionaire when he made his money, Mo Ibrahim. Just the nicest guy. His technical smarts and business sense helped launch a key stage in my career and I’ll always be grateful. He deserved every penny he made and everyone I know that worked for any of his companies, and his customers, did very well out of his hard work. How many careers have you supported? How many products did you conceive and design that transformed an industry? How many families were fed and clothed by wages from your companies? I doubt you’ve done as much good for as many people in your whole life as Mo Ibrahim did in a day at the office. Now he’s off working to transform political culture in Africa.
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jillesvangurp 4y ago
Exactly, if you don't defend your trademark, you don't effectively have one. It's not enough to have a trademark registered. You have to actively go after people when they infringe. It's not optional. You can't be selective about it either. Oracle has not done that. There are countless examples of people using the javascript name, incorporating it in books, articles, products, derivative works, etc. So, effectively the trademark has not been defended for decades. All fine with Oracle apparently. They never objected or sent any cease and desist letters. Oracle would not stand a chance in a court trying to enforce it now.
- drdec 4y ago
  > Oracle would not stand a chance in a court trying to enforce it now. Assuming that is true (IANAL), do you want to be on the other end of that lawsuit, wasting your time and money?

kristiandupont 4y ago

I agree. >Careful law abiding engineers bend over backwards to avoid its use ..do they really? It never occurred to me but maybe I don't qualify as careful and law abiding.

derefr 4y ago
It’d probably only be something that’d be relevant to worry about in e.g. technical documentation that ships with a commercial product. That’s the sort of use-case where I’d be worrying about what IP (including trademarks) are being referenced.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

russellbeattie 4y ago

Well... Oracle is lead by the most ruthless, unethical, Machiavellian business person in tech and his devoted acolytes. They probably don't gaf. But it wouldn't surprise me for Oracle to decide on some last minute resurrection of the brand and start legal armageddon. (In fact, calling attention to the situation is probably the worst thing to do...) That said, my guess is all they really want is for it to be a zero cost pain in the ass for Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc. (Yes... You youngsters might think Bezos or Zuck might be gunning for that title, but they got nothing on ol' Larry. He's evil incarnate. There's reasons those other two are always in the news and Ellison is not. Think about it. Pure evil.)

threeseed 4y ago
a) Calling a person evil should be reserved for those that commit truly heinous acts. Not simply being a tough, shrewd businessman in an industry where you need to be. b) Oracle's CEO is Safra Katz and has been for a while now. And pretty sure she has a lot more on her plate to worry about i.e. existential threat of AWS/Azure/GCP than fighting some meaningless lawsuit.
- josefx 4y ago
  > shrewd businessman in an industry where you need to be. Let me put it that way, if he was only as shrewd as "needed" he wouldn't be sitting there with billions to his name. Every billionaire is driving a wealth distribution that makes the lives of millions of people worse.
  - nickserv 4y ago
    It's just a game they play among themselves, 10 points for every million dollars. Nothing really wrong with it, I'm sure lots would play the same way. Really the problem is in government for failing to do its job of protecting the public.
  - simonh 4y ago
    Yet somehow people like this manage to employ and fund the livelihoods of tens of thousands of people, established an ecosystem of skilled engineers, and deliver products that run huge swathes of the economy. I’m no particular fan of Ellison, but I’ve worked for a billionaire when he made his money, Mo Ibrahim. Just the nicest guy. His technical smarts and business sense helped launch a key stage in my career and I’ll always be grateful. He deserved every penny he made and everyone I know that worked for any of his companies, and his customers, did very well out of his hard work. How many careers have you supported? How many products did you conceive and design that transformed an industry? How many families were fed and clothed by wages from your companies? I doubt you’ve done as much good for as many people in your whole life as Mo Ibrahim did in a day at the office. Now he’s off working to transform political culture in Africa.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jillesvangurp 4y ago

Exactly, if you don't defend your trademark, you don't effectively have one. It's not enough to have a trademark registered. You have to actively go after people when they infringe. It's not optional. You can't be selective about it either. Oracle has not done that. There are countless examples of people using the javascript name, incorporating it in books, articles, products, derivative works, etc. So, effectively the trademark has not been defended for decades. All fine with Oracle apparently. They never objected or sent any cease and desist letters. Oracle would not stand a chance in a court trying to enforce it now.

drdec 4y ago
> Oracle would not stand a chance in a court trying to enforce it now. Assuming that is true (IANAL), do you want to be on the other end of that lawsuit, wasting your time and money?