6 ms·

> Not very familiar with Australia. But thinking that high paying company like Atlassian which produces a very crappy software which I unfortunately deal daily.

> Not very familiar with Australia. But thinking that high paying company like Atlassian which produces a very crappy software which I unfortunately deal daily. To me it shows high pay does not guarantee good quality software which many(not you) seems to be arguing here. That's a different problem. That's because you, the user, are not a customer of Atlassian. Companies and their micromanagers, however, love JIRA. Microsoft is in the same boat. Virtually no users of their products are actually their customers. That's how you get away with producing very crappy software, even if you hire the top talent.

andsoitis 4y ago
> Microsoft is in the same boat. Virtually no users of their products are actually their customers. That's how you get away with producing very crappy software, even if you hire the top talent. Such a weird logic. You’re saying that Microsoft produces crappy software even though they hire too talent. And they get away with it because the people who buy it don’t use it (i.e. by extension don’t care if they’re spending their money wisely)?
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Microsoft isn’t a top-payer like Google et al.
  - chihuahua 4y ago
    Sad but true.
- sgjohnson 4y ago
  > by extension don’t care if they’re spending their money wisely What's wise for the management isn't necessarily wise for end-users. You can buy a product that's great for your business needs, that the users will absolutely hate. Both of those things can be true at the same time.
kareemsabri 4y ago
> Microsoft is in the same boat. Virtually no users of their products are actually their customers. Apple has less than 10% of the PC market. What do you think the rest of them are running?
- sgjohnson 4y ago
  > Apple has less than 10% of the PC market. What do you think the rest of them are running? If you didn't pay for your copy of Windows (which you most likely didn't, far more likely it was provided to you in another way, such as OEM or your employer), you are not Microsoft's customer. Likewise, if you got the free license from upgrading, you're also not their customer. Pirated Windows? Not their customer. Bought one of those $20 license keys? Still not their customer. Actually bought a Windows key directly from them? Okay, you're their customer. You're in the minority.
  - kareemsabri 4y ago
    I think it's a very Valley-centric opinion to think Microsoft doesn't have any consumer customers. Even putting aside all their other end user products consumers buy (XBox, the utterly dominant Office). I certainly don't agree with your definition of a customer. People who buy a PC with a Windows OS on it know it's a Windows OS, and make that choice willingly. It's like pretending nobody is an Android customer because they buy their phones from Samsung not Google.
    - sgjohnson 4y ago
      With Google it’s even simpler. You’re generally not their customer because you are their product.
  - worik 4y ago
    That makes no sense. If you use Microsoft products you are their customer. Splitting hairs is a bit silly
    - 4y ago
lokar 4y ago
More then that. I've worked places where everyone in eng (up to the top) hates Jira. IT chose it, eng can't seem to object.

andsoitis 4y ago

> Microsoft is in the same boat. Virtually no users of their products are actually their customers. That's how you get away with producing very crappy software, even if you hire the top talent. Such a weird logic. You’re saying that Microsoft produces crappy software even though they hire too talent. And they get away with it because the people who buy it don’t use it (i.e. by extension don’t care if they’re spending their money wisely)?

chrisseaton 4y ago
Microsoft isn’t a top-payer like Google et al.
- chihuahua 4y ago
  Sad but true.
sgjohnson 4y ago
> by extension don’t care if they’re spending their money wisely What's wise for the management isn't necessarily wise for end-users. You can buy a product that's great for your business needs, that the users will absolutely hate. Both of those things can be true at the same time.

kareemsabri 4y ago

> Microsoft is in the same boat. Virtually no users of their products are actually their customers. Apple has less than 10% of the PC market. What do you think the rest of them are running?

sgjohnson 4y ago
> Apple has less than 10% of the PC market. What do you think the rest of them are running? If you didn't pay for your copy of Windows (which you most likely didn't, far more likely it was provided to you in another way, such as OEM or your employer), you are not Microsoft's customer. Likewise, if you got the free license from upgrading, you're also not their customer. Pirated Windows? Not their customer. Bought one of those $20 license keys? Still not their customer. Actually bought a Windows key directly from them? Okay, you're their customer. You're in the minority.
- kareemsabri 4y ago
  I think it's a very Valley-centric opinion to think Microsoft doesn't have any consumer customers. Even putting aside all their other end user products consumers buy (XBox, the utterly dominant Office). I certainly don't agree with your definition of a customer. People who buy a PC with a Windows OS on it know it's a Windows OS, and make that choice willingly. It's like pretending nobody is an Android customer because they buy their phones from Samsung not Google.
  - sgjohnson 4y ago
    With Google it’s even simpler. You’re generally not their customer because you are their product.
- worik 4y ago
  That makes no sense. If you use Microsoft products you are their customer. Splitting hairs is a bit silly
  - 4y ago

lokar 4y ago

More then that. I've worked places where everyone in eng (up to the top) hates Jira. IT chose it, eng can't seem to object.