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> We have never been their hosting provider That is simply not how it works. The bits came from Cloudflare.

• imglorp 4y ago
  How is hosting == CDN?
  • jeremyjh 4y ago
    Well, they store content from the website, and send it over their network to consumers in response to requests.
• bumbum260 4y ago
  they never were hosting dude
• CircleSpokes 4y ago
  That is not how it works both technically and legally. Providing a reverse proxy is not the same as hosting the content.
  • stefan_ 4y ago
    They are a cache, not some load balancer. To anyone visiting their site, the difference is immaterial (otherwise, why would it even matter).
    • CircleSpokes 4y ago
      In this case cloudflare was the ddos protection via reverse proxy. That is different from directly hosting the website. No backend servers in this case were ever hosted on clodflare's network.
      • stefan_ 4y ago
        You are still talking about proxies. You misunderstand what Cloudflare was providing, and you are instead talking about "backend servers hosted on clodflare's network" as if that was ever their offer.
        • CircleSpokes 4y ago
          I'm confused by your comment. The issue here is people were mad that cloudflare was providing ddos protection (via reverse proxy). What are you talking about?
  • tomschwiha 4y ago
    Did they provide CDN services? Then they store files and I would interpret that as hosting.
    • ronsor 4y ago
      Caching doesn't count as hosting legally. In a literal, technical sense, sure, it's temporary hosting, but practically it's not.
      • prvit 4y ago
        According to which laws or court decisions?
  • prvit 4y ago
    Technically that’s literally how it works. Legally? Do you have evidence to support that theory?
    • CircleSpokes 4y ago
      >Technically that’s literally how it works. No it is not. Kiwifarms backend server isn't on cloudflare's network. When the backend server sends you some bits it hands them off to cloudflare since cloudflare is the reverse proxy ddos protection. In this case cloudflare is acting as a transit provider instead of directly hosting the backend server. >Legally? Do you have evidence to support that theory? Look up safe harbor laws in relation to ISPs. They have very broad legal protection when it comes to situations like this.
      • prvit 4y ago
        > Kiwifarms backend server isn't on cloudflare's network What does that even mean in practice? If you only host the php forum frontend but mysql runs at another DC then you’re also not hosting the backend, right? Cloudflare was hosting Kiwifarms even if they weren’t hosting the backend. > Look up safe harbor laws in relation to ISPs. They have very broad legal protection when it comes to situations like this. And those same laws don’t apply to someone just renting out dedicated servers? If you know more than me, perhaps you can explain to me how e.g. US law differentiates between a DC renting out dedicated servers and Cloudflare?
        • deleted 4y ago
          [deleted]
    • qeternity 4y ago
      Legally: every court case on Common Carriers.
      • prvit 4y ago
        Why is Cloudflare supposed to be a common carrier but a regular hosting provider isn't?
  • MBCook 4y ago
    Except, you know, when they were literally hosting the “site is down“ pages that contained anti-trans jokes.
    • spoils19 4y ago
    • CircleSpokes 4y ago
      What are you talking about? Cloudflare didn't host the website. They provided ddos protection via reverse proxy. That is different from hosting.
      • FullyFunctional 4y ago
        A CDN caches (= stores) the bits they provide. In other words, they are hosting contents on others behalf. I can't speak to a legal distinction, but if you torrent child pornography, I'm pretty sure you aren't going far with a claim that you were "just a CDN".
        • CircleSpokes 4y ago
          I suggest you look into safe harbor laws when it comes to ISPs. They have very broad protection from the consequences of their users' actions.
      • MBCook 4y ago
        My understanding was they were able to configure a simple page that was hosted by Cloudflare that was shown whenever the origin servers were not accessible. They put a joke about trans suicides on it. Once that joke was pointed out on Twitter, it quickly disappeared. Probably because it was incredibly obviously against Cloudflare‘s policies and Cloudflare was the one hosting it.
      • beachy 4y ago
        Every byte that the end user sees came from Cloudflare's servers. Try making the case that that's not hosting in a court of law.
  • astrange 4y ago
    Cloudflare is a hosting service. It has R2, workers, etc. And a CDN is a hosting service if you push content there and don’t set it to expire.
    • CircleSpokes 4y ago
      In this case cloudflare isn't the host though. They have hosting services but kiwifarms only makes use of their ddos protection (which is a reverse proxy). That means they aren't the actual host.
      • astrange 4y ago
        Ignoring attacks, what will happen to their hosting bill now that requests aren’t going to a CDN anymore?
        • CircleSpokes 4y ago
          I doubt anything would happen. At the end of the day it is a web forum it doesn't exactly cost many resources to host it (from archive.org most posts seems to just be text and outside links). I'd bet the benefit they get from using cloudflare has nothing to do with caching but only with ddos protection. Without cloudflare (or some other ddos protection) their servers are going to be offline from ddos attacks anyways.
• Moncefmd 4y ago
  By that logic, the ISP's host the internet