7 ms·

Where I reside..what you’ll call a third-world country (Nigeria), everyone who builds a home digs their personal water borehole and sewage system because our go

Where I reside..what you’ll call a third-world country (Nigeria), everyone who builds a home digs their personal water borehole and sewage system because our government is too incompetent to maintain city-wide infrastructure. I’ve always thought it would be much better if we can get centralized systems for these things as they do in developed countries, but I’m pretty sure this is the type of thing we would see regularly due to government incompetence and carelessness. Needless to say, I didn’t expect this kind of situation from the US, a country with many characteristics I admire…come on, you guys are too rich for this to happen!

sharkweek 4y ago
You’d be surprised how much the quality of infrastructure can vary between cities and states across the United States.
spaniard89277 4y ago
Public infrastructure needs quite a lot of work to make it work and care about it. You need a constant stream of engineers, technicians, materials, money, etc. And quite a lot of coordination. So even a first world country can fuck it all up and you wouldn't need a spectacular failure, just a bit of time, and a bit of willingness/resources shortage too. You can build a more, say, resilient infrastructure, but I don't think anyone builds infrastructure like The Romans did today.
- koheripbal 4y ago
  Part of the problem is that engineers have all moved out of these cities.
hosh 4y ago
Having better local sources of water and treatment may turn out to he a better idea than centralized water treatment. Here in the US, water is pumped (often uphill) and purified to drinking water standards, only for 70% of residential water used for watering green lawns. Those lawns are usually grown in a way where soil microbes are killed off, water retention capability are reduced (so it needs more water), and the lawn is excessively cut and fertilized in order preserve an aesthetic. Being able to waste land and water resources like that is a typical signal of wealth. Personally for me, signaling wealth by wasting resources is not a characteristic that is admirable for me. Better water management can include multiple rounds of circulating greywater to support food-bearing perennials, and on-site or perhaps, neighborhood level treatment of water. So it may turn out that, if you look beyond the modern West as if it is the pinnacle of civilization, you can skip the mistakes and develop something better for your country and your local community. EDIT: this 10 min video shows the basic principles for onsite greywater and blackwater harvesting: https://youtu.be/f-sRcVkZ9yg https://youtu.be/f-sRcVkZ9yg
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >Personally for me, signaling wealth by wasting resources is not a characteristic that is admirable for me. Hmmm, if only we could have some laws and regulations preventing resource waste and focus on saving the environment. Like an agency focused on ... environmental protection.
- sroussey 4y ago
  In Irvine, California, homes are plumbed with two water lines: potable, and greywater. So even in the middle of a drought, everything is green.
  - coliveira 4y ago
    More waste: now there is an extra water system to maintain and repair.
    - RC_ITR 4y ago
      Define “extra” Do you consider hot/cold plumbing to be two systems?
      - tentacleuno 4y ago
        Yes, I do. One is connected to the mains water, while the other goes through a series of pipes to the boiler.
  - hosh 4y ago
    Yup, that’s a great start. There’s a lot more that can be done. For example, there are better ways to treat blackwater than dumping it into a septic tank and a leach field. Incorporating and cycling blackwater through plants that evolved to drink and process blackwater can help clean it faster. I would not want to cycle it immediately back to onsite drinking water, but in a situation like Jackson, MS, I know I am not contributing sewage to my neighbor’s bathwater. This video goes through the design principles for onsite greywater and blackwater harvesting: https://youtu.be/f-sRcVkZ9yg https://youtu.be/f-sRcVkZ9yg
thro388 4y ago
In Lagos (capital) there were public toilets, and public water taps, and mobile cisterns with drinkable water even in slums. Goverment is not going to risk outbreak of cholera! I live in Central Europe, private wells and septics are pretty common here in smaller villages.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  Even in the US, private wells and septic systems are common outside of cities and smaller towns. My parents have their own in a village of around 3000 people, but they're on the border and people closer to the center are on a municipal system. The levels of government, in order from largest to smallest, are roughly as follows: Federal State County Municipality (city, township, or unincorporated) (names for these vary by state). If you live in an unincorporated area (basically, rural space between cities or suburbs) or a town, you will need your own well and septic system.
- boeingUH60 4y ago
  Just a slight correction. Abuja is the capital, not Lagos. And I’ve been to Lagos several times, and gosh, do I hate that overcrowded state with stretched-out infrastructure.
afterburner 4y ago
Majority black town in the poorest state in the union, which is also a Republican state. That's no coincidence. EDIT: as in the town is being intentionally poorly maintained by the rest of the state.
- Bud 4y ago
  I'd like explanations from each and every person who downvoted this. Nobody apparently had the courage to try to refute the argument, and even a cursory examination of the facts will reveal that this commenter has the facts right. Mississippi's Republican governor and Republican legislature have repeatedly denied proper funding to Jackson to address this issue in the past. It takes about 45 seconds to look this up.
  - wyager 4y ago
    > repeatedly denied proper funding to Jackson "Proper" as defined by the people who are asking for the money. The fact that they're regularly asking for more money is causally independent of essentially anything else. An alternative theory, which seems to have a lot of supporting evidence, is that the Jackson government habitually mismanages resources.
  - adolph 4y ago
    I didn't downvote but I don't buy the city/state political divide as a significant cause. For one, accidents happen. For two, a water system needs to be financially sustainable. If its finances were in shambles, as the EPA assessment below found, then that will lead to the other problems listed. Having spent the 45 seconds the parent comment did not share, the story I see is one where the state was willing to match more funds but the city had other priorities. This isn't written as criticism of the city's decision but acknowledgement that different people see things differently. If some other disaster had happened that decision might have been vindicated. [Dated April 28, 2022, MS Gov] Reeves said the state was willing to match Jackson’s water and sewer infrastructure spending, and criticized the city only putting up $25 million of the $42 million in federal American Rescue Plan Act funds it received for such work. https://mississippitoday.org/2022/04/28/tate-reeves-veto-jackson-golf-course-planetarium/ https://mississippitoday.org/2022/04/28/tate-reeves-veto-jac... U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) assessment team flagged numerous system problems in a July 2022 report, one month before the system failed. The problems highlighted in the report include: - Poor administration, lack of staff - Finances are in shambles - Customer complaints - Lack of routine monitoring and maintenance - Water in storage tanks isn’t cycled - Frequent line breaks https://www.wjtv.com/news/jacksons-water-crisis/jacksons-water-crisis-the-latest-updates/ https://www.wjtv.com/news/jacksons-water-crisis/jacksons-wat...
MichaelCollins 4y ago
A bit more than 1 in 10 Americans don't get their water from a communal source; most of them have their own wells. And about 1 in 5 American households have septic tanks instead of connections to sewers. This is mostly due to people living in rural areas. Even with all the money in the world, why would you lay a 10 mile sewer line for half a dozen people instead of digging some septic tanks?
- feet 4y ago
  Perhaps if the infrastructure were better in some areas, there would be more businesses and people living there
itissid 4y ago
It is similar to my native punjab, but after several years the borewells are all dried up.
userbinator 4y ago
The US has been described as 50 small countries inside a big one. There is, for lack of a better term, a lot of diversity between them.
- dr_dshiv 4y ago
  Like, 50 states?
sirspacey 4y ago
This is actually quite common in New England, where many homes have both their own spring & sewage - even when public systems are available Far more resilient design in the event of extreme weather events, which most rural homes must endure Centralizes has benefits, but so does decentralization!
- dehrmann 4y ago
  The tradeoff is efficiency vs. redundancy.
aaaaaasss 4y ago
adolph 4y ago
Accidents happen. My own neighborhood had a boil notice for the better part of a week after a line break that flooded a freeway. [1] an issue at the O.B. Curtis Water Treatment Facility that was caused by the Pearl River flooding this past weekend. [0] Wealth is a lagging indicator for competence. Many systems can coast along even as problems pile up and don't seem to be problems even though the system cannot withstand an accident. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) assessment team flagged numerous system problems in a July 2022 report, one month before the system failed. The problems highlighted in the report include: [0] - Poor administration, lack of staff - Finances are in shambles - Customer complaints - Lack of routine monitoring and maintenance - Water in storage tanks isn’t cycled - Frequent line breaks 0. https://www.wjtv.com/news/jacksons-water-crisis/jacksons-water-crisis-the-latest-updates/ https://www.wjtv.com/news/jacksons-water-crisis/jacksons-wat... 1. https://abc7.com/houston-water-main-break-city-of-flooding-outage/5971627/ https://abc7.com/houston-water-main-break-city-of-flooding-o...

sharkweek 4y ago

You’d be surprised how much the quality of infrastructure can vary between cities and states across the United States.

spaniard89277 4y ago

Public infrastructure needs quite a lot of work to make it work and care about it. You need a constant stream of engineers, technicians, materials, money, etc. And quite a lot of coordination. So even a first world country can fuck it all up and you wouldn't need a spectacular failure, just a bit of time, and a bit of willingness/resources shortage too. You can build a more, say, resilient infrastructure, but I don't think anyone builds infrastructure like The Romans did today.

koheripbal 4y ago
Part of the problem is that engineers have all moved out of these cities.

hosh 4y ago

Having better local sources of water and treatment may turn out to he a better idea than centralized water treatment. Here in the US, water is pumped (often uphill) and purified to drinking water standards, only for 70% of residential water used for watering green lawns. Those lawns are usually grown in a way where soil microbes are killed off, water retention capability are reduced (so it needs more water), and the lawn is excessively cut and fertilized in order preserve an aesthetic. Being able to waste land and water resources like that is a typical signal of wealth. Personally for me, signaling wealth by wasting resources is not a characteristic that is admirable for me. Better water management can include multiple rounds of circulating greywater to support food-bearing perennials, and on-site or perhaps, neighborhood level treatment of water. So it may turn out that, if you look beyond the modern West as if it is the pinnacle of civilization, you can skip the mistakes and develop something better for your country and your local community. EDIT: this 10 min video shows the basic principles for onsite greywater and blackwater harvesting: https://youtu.be/f-sRcVkZ9yg https://youtu.be/f-sRcVkZ9yg

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Personally for me, signaling wealth by wasting resources is not a characteristic that is admirable for me. Hmmm, if only we could have some laws and regulations preventing resource waste and focus on saving the environment. Like an agency focused on ... environmental protection.
sroussey 4y ago
In Irvine, California, homes are plumbed with two water lines: potable, and greywater. So even in the middle of a drought, everything is green.
- coliveira 4y ago
  More waste: now there is an extra water system to maintain and repair.
  - RC_ITR 4y ago
    Define “extra” Do you consider hot/cold plumbing to be two systems?
    - tentacleuno 4y ago
      Yes, I do. One is connected to the mains water, while the other goes through a series of pipes to the boiler.
- hosh 4y ago
  Yup, that’s a great start. There’s a lot more that can be done. For example, there are better ways to treat blackwater than dumping it into a septic tank and a leach field. Incorporating and cycling blackwater through plants that evolved to drink and process blackwater can help clean it faster. I would not want to cycle it immediately back to onsite drinking water, but in a situation like Jackson, MS, I know I am not contributing sewage to my neighbor’s bathwater. This video goes through the design principles for onsite greywater and blackwater harvesting: https://youtu.be/f-sRcVkZ9yg https://youtu.be/f-sRcVkZ9yg

thro388 4y ago

In Lagos (capital) there were public toilets, and public water taps, and mobile cisterns with drinkable water even in slums. Goverment is not going to risk outbreak of cholera! I live in Central Europe, private wells and septics are pretty common here in smaller villages.

zdragnar 4y ago
Even in the US, private wells and septic systems are common outside of cities and smaller towns. My parents have their own in a village of around 3000 people, but they're on the border and people closer to the center are on a municipal system. The levels of government, in order from largest to smallest, are roughly as follows: Federal State County Municipality (city, township, or unincorporated) (names for these vary by state). If you live in an unincorporated area (basically, rural space between cities or suburbs) or a town, you will need your own well and septic system.
boeingUH60 4y ago
Just a slight correction. Abuja is the capital, not Lagos. And I’ve been to Lagos several times, and gosh, do I hate that overcrowded state with stretched-out infrastructure.

afterburner 4y ago

Majority black town in the poorest state in the union, which is also a Republican state. That's no coincidence. EDIT: as in the town is being intentionally poorly maintained by the rest of the state.

Bud 4y ago
I'd like explanations from each and every person who downvoted this. Nobody apparently had the courage to try to refute the argument, and even a cursory examination of the facts will reveal that this commenter has the facts right. Mississippi's Republican governor and Republican legislature have repeatedly denied proper funding to Jackson to address this issue in the past. It takes about 45 seconds to look this up.
- wyager 4y ago
  > repeatedly denied proper funding to Jackson "Proper" as defined by the people who are asking for the money. The fact that they're regularly asking for more money is causally independent of essentially anything else. An alternative theory, which seems to have a lot of supporting evidence, is that the Jackson government habitually mismanages resources.
- adolph 4y ago
  I didn't downvote but I don't buy the city/state political divide as a significant cause. For one, accidents happen. For two, a water system needs to be financially sustainable. If its finances were in shambles, as the EPA assessment below found, then that will lead to the other problems listed. Having spent the 45 seconds the parent comment did not share, the story I see is one where the state was willing to match more funds but the city had other priorities. This isn't written as criticism of the city's decision but acknowledgement that different people see things differently. If some other disaster had happened that decision might have been vindicated. [Dated April 28, 2022, MS Gov] Reeves said the state was willing to match Jackson’s water and sewer infrastructure spending, and criticized the city only putting up $25 million of the $42 million in federal American Rescue Plan Act funds it received for such work. https://mississippitoday.org/2022/04/28/tate-reeves-veto-jackson-golf-course-planetarium/ https://mississippitoday.org/2022/04/28/tate-reeves-veto-jac... U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) assessment team flagged numerous system problems in a July 2022 report, one month before the system failed. The problems highlighted in the report include: - Poor administration, lack of staff - Finances are in shambles - Customer complaints - Lack of routine monitoring and maintenance - Water in storage tanks isn’t cycled - Frequent line breaks https://www.wjtv.com/news/jacksons-water-crisis/jacksons-water-crisis-the-latest-updates/ https://www.wjtv.com/news/jacksons-water-crisis/jacksons-wat...

MichaelCollins 4y ago

A bit more than 1 in 10 Americans don't get their water from a communal source; most of them have their own wells. And about 1 in 5 American households have septic tanks instead of connections to sewers. This is mostly due to people living in rural areas. Even with all the money in the world, why would you lay a 10 mile sewer line for half a dozen people instead of digging some septic tanks?

feet 4y ago
Perhaps if the infrastructure were better in some areas, there would be more businesses and people living there

itissid 4y ago

It is similar to my native punjab, but after several years the borewells are all dried up.

userbinator 4y ago

The US has been described as 50 small countries inside a big one. There is, for lack of a better term, a lot of diversity between them.

dr_dshiv 4y ago
Like, 50 states?

sirspacey 4y ago

This is actually quite common in New England, where many homes have both their own spring & sewage - even when public systems are available Far more resilient design in the event of extreme weather events, which most rural homes must endure Centralizes has benefits, but so does decentralization!

dehrmann 4y ago
The tradeoff is efficiency vs. redundancy.

aaaaaasss 4y ago

adolph 4y ago

Accidents happen. My own neighborhood had a boil notice for the better part of a week after a line break that flooded a freeway. [1] an issue at the O.B. Curtis Water Treatment Facility that was caused by the Pearl River flooding this past weekend. [0] Wealth is a lagging indicator for competence. Many systems can coast along even as problems pile up and don't seem to be problems even though the system cannot withstand an accident. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) assessment team flagged numerous system problems in a July 2022 report, one month before the system failed. The problems highlighted in the report include: [0] - Poor administration, lack of staff - Finances are in shambles - Customer complaints - Lack of routine monitoring and maintenance - Water in storage tanks isn’t cycled - Frequent line breaks 0. https://www.wjtv.com/news/jacksons-water-crisis/jacksons-water-crisis-the-latest-updates/ https://www.wjtv.com/news/jacksons-water-crisis/jacksons-wat... 1. https://abc7.com/houston-water-main-break-city-of-flooding-outage/5971627/ https://abc7.com/houston-water-main-break-city-of-flooding-o...