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First part is: "There’s someone in Bangladesh who would almost surely be a better economics professor than I am and is now behind a water buffalo," Poverty an

First part is: "There’s someone in Bangladesh who would almost surely be a better economics professor than I am and is now behind a water buffalo," Poverty and under-develppment are not a result of the market economy. In fact the market economy has been key in fighting poverty and under-development since the industrial revolution.

andsoitis 4y ago
> In fact the market economy has been key in fighting poverty and under-development since the industrial revolution. His point is that even though it has been key, it hasn't solved it.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  It has provided the tools to solve it but there is no silver bullet: countries need good, effective governance.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    So: necessary but not sufficient?
- hcmacro 4y ago
  "In fact the market economy has been key in fighting poverty and under-development since the industrial revolution." Worth noting that Karl Polanyi, whose influence DeLong cites, made the opposite claim in The Great Transformation.
michaelwww 4y ago
> There’s someone in Bangladesh who would almost surely be a better economics professor than I am and is now behind a water buffalo,” he told me. “I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.” ― Stephen Jay Gould, The Panda's Thumb: More Reflections in Natural History (1980)
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Of course, I'm sure that all breakthroughs in human history have been a mix of intellect, hard work, circumstances, and luck. But my problem with what you quote and what I replied to is the anti-capitalist, if not anti-imperialist/anti-western, undercurrent. My take on this quote is the contrary: it is testament to the success of the Western/capitalist/free market economy system. Why? Because the starting point for all of mankind is nothing. But somehow we managed to create a society that allowed Einstein to exist. We should realise what a tremendous success that is. Ultimately it is up to the people to make it happen in their own country and in their own way.
  - michaelwww 4y ago
    Capitalism and the Industrial Revolution have produced many astonishing successes. Even Communist China bought into it after looking at the Asian success in Korea and Japan. I don't think many would disagree with this. There are anti-capitalist people but I'd like to hear more about their successful alternative systems. What's being said, I think, is that we could do even better Inequality and America’s Lost Einsteins https://kottke.org/17/12/inequality-and-americas-lost-einsteins https://kottke.org/17/12/inequality-and-americas-lost-einste...
    - jschveibinz 4y ago
      > We are on the verge of ending capitalism… I am curious to see some data to back up your assertion. Here is some data that suggests that the world economy is growing exponentially. Access to capital is a basis for this economy. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/world-gdp-over-the-last-two-millennia https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/world-gdp-over-the-last-t... It is this same economic growth that has fueled the global rise in quality of life. This article (2016) shows improvement in quality of life over time: https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/12/23/14062168/history-global-conditions-charts-life-span-poverty https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/12/23/14062168/history... But I stand ready to be corrected by your data.
      - 4y ago
imtringued 4y ago
I like that you are talking about market economies because capitalistic market economies are a wash. Some of them do well, others extremely poorly, see Russia. The spirit of the free market is not a market without regulations that lets existing power structures entrench themselves, yet capitalism is all about entrenching the power of capital and forcing the rest of society to obey. It would be more appropriate to call the market we need a liberated markets by that I mean liberated from special interests, monopolies and other forms of market distorting powers that take wealth without creating new wealth.
rufus_foreman 4y ago
Here's total percentage of employment in agriculture going back to 1991: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.AGR.EMPL.ZS?end=2019&start=1991 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.AGR.EMPL.ZS?end=2019... One and a half billion people are no longer behind a water buffalo. "There’s someone in Bangladesh who would almost surely be a better economics professor than I am" I literally can't even.
- fuzzfactor 4y ago
  Not my downvote, But more realistically, there's numerous obscure unknown Americans scattered across the country who would make better leaders than anyone has ever seen. But these leadership positions are so lofty that unless all elements of good fortune are sequentially in place along with some recognized basic qualifications, over a career-defining number of years, no one else aspiring to such a position has very much of a chance to show what a naturally higher performer could accomplish the more there is at stake. The potentially better leaders who have not benefitted from many, or any at all, of the milestone selective opportunities needed for rapid advancement over a single lifetime, or those who have suffered bad fortune instead, might as well be behind a water buffalo their dang self. Even if they are regular ordinary Americans, quite comfortable by international standards, with not a foot in the rice paddy. Their chance is still nil. And I'm talking about the virtual handful that could truly walk right into a top position and outperform the status quo hands down. When it comes to economics, children having a natural ability to derive equations without training are just as likely to be born into an uneducated family background at the same rate that such a background or culture exists at the time. Even without education some people whose ancestors have always been behind a water buffalo since ancient history are still around. Among them always have been those whose brain fills with complex concepts more advanced than most PhDs anyway, these can just be different concepts to a good extent.

andsoitis 4y ago

> In fact the market economy has been key in fighting poverty and under-development since the industrial revolution. His point is that even though it has been key, it hasn't solved it.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
It has provided the tools to solve it but there is no silver bullet: countries need good, effective governance.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  So: necessary but not sufficient?
hcmacro 4y ago
"In fact the market economy has been key in fighting poverty and under-development since the industrial revolution." Worth noting that Karl Polanyi, whose influence DeLong cites, made the opposite claim in The Great Transformation.

michaelwww 4y ago

> There’s someone in Bangladesh who would almost surely be a better economics professor than I am and is now behind a water buffalo,” he told me. “I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.” ― Stephen Jay Gould, The Panda's Thumb: More Reflections in Natural History (1980)

mytailorisrich 4y ago
Of course, I'm sure that all breakthroughs in human history have been a mix of intellect, hard work, circumstances, and luck. But my problem with what you quote and what I replied to is the anti-capitalist, if not anti-imperialist/anti-western, undercurrent. My take on this quote is the contrary: it is testament to the success of the Western/capitalist/free market economy system. Why? Because the starting point for all of mankind is nothing. But somehow we managed to create a society that allowed Einstein to exist. We should realise what a tremendous success that is. Ultimately it is up to the people to make it happen in their own country and in their own way.
- michaelwww 4y ago
  Capitalism and the Industrial Revolution have produced many astonishing successes. Even Communist China bought into it after looking at the Asian success in Korea and Japan. I don't think many would disagree with this. There are anti-capitalist people but I'd like to hear more about their successful alternative systems. What's being said, I think, is that we could do even better Inequality and America’s Lost Einsteins https://kottke.org/17/12/inequality-and-americas-lost-einsteins https://kottke.org/17/12/inequality-and-americas-lost-einste...
  - jschveibinz 4y ago
    > We are on the verge of ending capitalism… I am curious to see some data to back up your assertion. Here is some data that suggests that the world economy is growing exponentially. Access to capital is a basis for this economy. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/world-gdp-over-the-last-two-millennia https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/world-gdp-over-the-last-t... It is this same economic growth that has fueled the global rise in quality of life. This article (2016) shows improvement in quality of life over time: https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/12/23/14062168/history-global-conditions-charts-life-span-poverty https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/12/23/14062168/history... But I stand ready to be corrected by your data.
    - 4y ago

imtringued 4y ago

I like that you are talking about market economies because capitalistic market economies are a wash. Some of them do well, others extremely poorly, see Russia. The spirit of the free market is not a market without regulations that lets existing power structures entrench themselves, yet capitalism is all about entrenching the power of capital and forcing the rest of society to obey. It would be more appropriate to call the market we need a liberated markets by that I mean liberated from special interests, monopolies and other forms of market distorting powers that take wealth without creating new wealth.

rufus_foreman 4y ago

Here's total percentage of employment in agriculture going back to 1991: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.AGR.EMPL.ZS?end=2019&start=1991 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.AGR.EMPL.ZS?end=2019... One and a half billion people are no longer behind a water buffalo. "There’s someone in Bangladesh who would almost surely be a better economics professor than I am" I literally can't even.

fuzzfactor 4y ago
Not my downvote, But more realistically, there's numerous obscure unknown Americans scattered across the country who would make better leaders than anyone has ever seen. But these leadership positions are so lofty that unless all elements of good fortune are sequentially in place along with some recognized basic qualifications, over a career-defining number of years, no one else aspiring to such a position has very much of a chance to show what a naturally higher performer could accomplish the more there is at stake. The potentially better leaders who have not benefitted from many, or any at all, of the milestone selective opportunities needed for rapid advancement over a single lifetime, or those who have suffered bad fortune instead, might as well be behind a water buffalo their dang self. Even if they are regular ordinary Americans, quite comfortable by international standards, with not a foot in the rice paddy. Their chance is still nil. And I'm talking about the virtual handful that could truly walk right into a top position and outperform the status quo hands down. When it comes to economics, children having a natural ability to derive equations without training are just as likely to be born into an uneducated family background at the same rate that such a background or culture exists at the time. Even without education some people whose ancestors have always been behind a water buffalo since ancient history are still around. Among them always have been those whose brain fills with complex concepts more advanced than most PhDs anyway, these can just be different concepts to a good extent.