4 ms·

$2k per day. hourly always invites discussions, for example how are phone calls with mixed topics billed?

typeofhuman 4y ago
I'm considering switching from hourly to a daily model. Tracking hours is becoming too granular for the work I'm doing. This includes research and development; each of which I find myself "guessing" the hours a lot of the time.
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  In my case, it was the research. If you bill 2h of DuckDuck-ing for suitable libraries to use as dependencies, that sounds like you're slacking off. But it'll probably save money for the project as a whole.
furyofantares 4y ago
i assume that invites a discussion about what a day is. is that an easier discussion? how does it go? or does it not invite discussion?
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  Never had that discussion. When I assign a day to a project, it basically means that I promise to not work on something else on that calendar day. But the actual hours don't matter that much if I get some stuff done. I mean regular employees also can have a bad day where they can't concentrate well and then you only get 4 hours of productive work out of the 8 hours they are physically present.
- Silhouette 4y ago
  This is a bit like the clients with low rates or clients with high rates discussion. Clients who will pay high rates actually tend to be more respectful of your time and expertise. Similarly a chargeable day is a day when you provided the contracted services period. It doesn't come with fixed hours or even a fixed amount of hours. It doesn't come with a guarantee that you won't take a quick call with someone else in the middle of the day or a two-hour lunch date. It does include travel, phone calls, answering "quick questions" on Teams or Slack or whatever they use, and anything else you do to provide the contracted services. Anyone who doesn't like that can find someone else to work with who is willing to put up with all the other nickel and dime stuff that client will surely try. No-one I worked with on a day rate ever even questioned it. What you get done on the days you charge for will tell a client soon enough if you're providing the value they're paying for and if you are then they won't have any reason to worry about nit-picking the wording in your contract.
- airbreather 4y ago
  Any day, or part of, is the rule we work by, that way once they start you for the day they try and keep you entertained all day. Otherwise it can be on and off and surprisingly the jumping between different clints/projects on an hour by hour basis is extremely demanding and limiting of productivity when done in an ad hoc fashion.
jillesvangurp 4y ago
Exactly. Using a day rate has several more advantages. You can skip a lot of the bookkeeping. And companies are a lot more mindful of your time when they buy it by the day. If I have to join a 15 minute meeting, I lose more than just those 15 minutes. It's a context switch, I might want to prepare before hand, reflect on it afterwards. Etc. If I bill by the day, than that's fine. I'm yours for the day. Neither of us will be staring at the clock and it's not like I'll be doing anything else that day.
- callmekatootie 4y ago
  So - if that 15 minute meeting is all that you do in that day, would you still bill the client for the entire day? Or I have understood it wrong. Just curious how this model works.

I'm considering switching from hourly to a daily model. Tracking hours is becoming too granular for the work I'm doing. This includes research and development; each of which I find myself "guessing" the hours a lot of the time.

fxtentacle 4y ago
In my case, it was the research. If you bill 2h of DuckDuck-ing for suitable libraries to use as dependencies, that sounds like you're slacking off. But it'll probably save money for the project as a whole.

furyofantares 4y ago

i assume that invites a discussion about what a day is. is that an easier discussion? how does it go? or does it not invite discussion?

fxtentacle 4y ago
Never had that discussion. When I assign a day to a project, it basically means that I promise to not work on something else on that calendar day. But the actual hours don't matter that much if I get some stuff done. I mean regular employees also can have a bad day where they can't concentrate well and then you only get 4 hours of productive work out of the 8 hours they are physically present.
Silhouette 4y ago
This is a bit like the clients with low rates or clients with high rates discussion. Clients who will pay high rates actually tend to be more respectful of your time and expertise. Similarly a chargeable day is a day when you provided the contracted services period. It doesn't come with fixed hours or even a fixed amount of hours. It doesn't come with a guarantee that you won't take a quick call with someone else in the middle of the day or a two-hour lunch date. It does include travel, phone calls, answering "quick questions" on Teams or Slack or whatever they use, and anything else you do to provide the contracted services. Anyone who doesn't like that can find someone else to work with who is willing to put up with all the other nickel and dime stuff that client will surely try. No-one I worked with on a day rate ever even questioned it. What you get done on the days you charge for will tell a client soon enough if you're providing the value they're paying for and if you are then they won't have any reason to worry about nit-picking the wording in your contract.
airbreather 4y ago
Any day, or part of, is the rule we work by, that way once they start you for the day they try and keep you entertained all day. Otherwise it can be on and off and surprisingly the jumping between different clints/projects on an hour by hour basis is extremely demanding and limiting of productivity when done in an ad hoc fashion.

jillesvangurp 4y ago

Exactly. Using a day rate has several more advantages. You can skip a lot of the bookkeeping. And companies are a lot more mindful of your time when they buy it by the day. If I have to join a 15 minute meeting, I lose more than just those 15 minutes. It's a context switch, I might want to prepare before hand, reflect on it afterwards. Etc. If I bill by the day, than that's fine. I'm yours for the day. Neither of us will be staring at the clock and it's not like I'll be doing anything else that day.

callmekatootie 4y ago
So - if that 15 minute meeting is all that you do in that day, would you still bill the client for the entire day? Or I have understood it wrong. Just curious how this model works.