3 ms·

I know a few people who were in prison, some for serious crimes. Based upon my very unscientific sample, many of these guys were pretty smart. It makes me wond

by jmclnx 4y ago

I know a few people who were in prison, some for serious crimes. Based upon my very unscientific sample, many of these guys were pretty smart. It makes me wonder how their environment in school (peers and/or teachers) along with social pressure put some of them on that path. I hear if smart people are not engaged in classes, they get bored rather quickly and start doing poorly. When I was young, I remember many times teachers would focus on the kids having a hard time learning, which is understandable. But some of the smarter kids may decide "why bother" when not given attention they may crave.

soulofmischief 4y ago
For me it had nothing to do with attention... if you let me read my books quietly in class while you're wasting my time with a lecture I can absorb in two minutes at home, we don't have a problem. I'll show up and pass your test. Most of my teachers understood this and got out of my way. The ones who didn't understand caused me no end of problems in their attempts to force me to conform to expectations I never signed off on. I was the smartest (read: just the most motivated) kid at most of the schools I went to and also among the most frequently written up, punished or suspended. I had a reputation for getting sent to the office at least once every two weeks, inevitably due to some form of "willful disobedience", which was just me refusing to buckle to any perceived narcissism or institutional coercion foisted upon me. Authority figures either hated that they could not control me, or warmly accepted that if they just left me alone I would pass their stupid tests with flying colors. It wasn't until my last two years of high school, when I was homeless and attending on my own cognizance, that teachers finally backed the fuck off and realized what they were dealing with. Except a single teacher. My transcripts were illegally altered by a teacher who felt that she had to "win" against me, and ultimately caused me 10 years of economic hardship after high school. I passed every class, had the highest test scores. and she still found a way to rob me of the multiple full-ride scholarship opportunities I had received for several engineering colleges, just to put a boot down on my face one last time on my way out. This was substantial enough to sue the school department over, but when you're homeless and your parents are drug addicts, you don't get these opportunities. This is what an under-stimulated individual with no support structure looks like. And I felt the concerted institutional effort every single step of the way to push me down and grind me into submission, to teach me I was a criminal for thinking for myself. I have a much more tolerant view of many forms of criminal behavior because of this experience and that is no accident.
- erdos4d 4y ago
  > And I felt the concerted institutional effort every single step of the way to push me down and grind me into submission, to teach me I was a criminal for thinking for myself. I so relate to this. The people who run schools honestly believe that they are the one true way in society and if you aren't square with them, you are literally on a criminal path. You don't believe their values? Complete anti-social. Don't find their facts fun to regurgitate on command? Clearly an idiot. These people really are brainwashed in this way and that kids get forced through that system is a tragedy.
  - soulofmischief 4y ago
    It's a really bad filter, too. I used to get written up a lot (and punished/beaten at home) for drawing in class. If my characters had so much as a 1-inch knife on their heel, I was being hauled into the office for the latest round of Is-This-The-Next-Columbine, told I was drawing evil things. This happened incessantly throughout grade school. My guardians and schools formed an ad-hoc surveillance network where they all made sure I was never drawing Bad Things, and that I was always Adequately Punished. The insanely ironic thing is that I was unequivocally the first person who would have put their life in danger to protect the lives of their peers. Because of my upbringing I have a compulsion to protect others at my expense and would never dream of aiming a firearm at someone who wasn't an immediate threat to my safety. But while white supremacists around me were sharpening their views on the playground, I was the easy target. I obviously didn't pursue a career in art and still struggle with personal identity and creativity because of this.
Mezzie 4y ago
I've dabbled in "gray" things but never anything that would get me sent to prison (I lack the risk tolerance), but in case, I turned to that kind of work because playing by the rules (at the time) got me nowhere. At the time, I was reliant on Medicaid to manage my progressive illness (MS) and was limited to earning ~1k a month. Which obviously wasn't enough to live on, so I started bartering and doing work under the table. The safest kind of under the table work is work where if it's discovered, everybody involved would be 'in trouble'. That way everybody has an incentive to Shut The Fuck Up. If you put smart people into corners, they're going to find ways outside of the system to prosper. Edit: Also, if you have the right skills, you can make BANK, especially since you don't pay taxes on illicit income. I at one point made ~$100/hr, and I wasn't doing anything illegal.

by jmclnx 4y ago

soulofmischief 4y ago

For me it had nothing to do with attention... if you let me read my books quietly in class while you're wasting my time with a lecture I can absorb in two minutes at home, we don't have a problem. I'll show up and pass your test. Most of my teachers understood this and got out of my way. The ones who didn't understand caused me no end of problems in their attempts to force me to conform to expectations I never signed off on. I was the smartest (read: just the most motivated) kid at most of the schools I went to and also among the most frequently written up, punished or suspended. I had a reputation for getting sent to the office at least once every two weeks, inevitably due to some form of "willful disobedience", which was just me refusing to buckle to any perceived narcissism or institutional coercion foisted upon me. Authority figures either hated that they could not control me, or warmly accepted that if they just left me alone I would pass their stupid tests with flying colors. It wasn't until my last two years of high school, when I was homeless and attending on my own cognizance, that teachers finally backed the fuck off and realized what they were dealing with. Except a single teacher. My transcripts were illegally altered by a teacher who felt that she had to "win" against me, and ultimately caused me 10 years of economic hardship after high school. I passed every class, had the highest test scores. and she still found a way to rob me of the multiple full-ride scholarship opportunities I had received for several engineering colleges, just to put a boot down on my face one last time on my way out. This was substantial enough to sue the school department over, but when you're homeless and your parents are drug addicts, you don't get these opportunities. This is what an under-stimulated individual with no support structure looks like. And I felt the concerted institutional effort every single step of the way to push me down and grind me into submission, to teach me I was a criminal for thinking for myself. I have a much more tolerant view of many forms of criminal behavior because of this experience and that is no accident.

erdos4d 4y ago
> And I felt the concerted institutional effort every single step of the way to push me down and grind me into submission, to teach me I was a criminal for thinking for myself. I so relate to this. The people who run schools honestly believe that they are the one true way in society and if you aren't square with them, you are literally on a criminal path. You don't believe their values? Complete anti-social. Don't find their facts fun to regurgitate on command? Clearly an idiot. These people really are brainwashed in this way and that kids get forced through that system is a tragedy.
- soulofmischief 4y ago
  It's a really bad filter, too. I used to get written up a lot (and punished/beaten at home) for drawing in class. If my characters had so much as a 1-inch knife on their heel, I was being hauled into the office for the latest round of Is-This-The-Next-Columbine, told I was drawing evil things. This happened incessantly throughout grade school. My guardians and schools formed an ad-hoc surveillance network where they all made sure I was never drawing Bad Things, and that I was always Adequately Punished. The insanely ironic thing is that I was unequivocally the first person who would have put their life in danger to protect the lives of their peers. Because of my upbringing I have a compulsion to protect others at my expense and would never dream of aiming a firearm at someone who wasn't an immediate threat to my safety. But while white supremacists around me were sharpening their views on the playground, I was the easy target. I obviously didn't pursue a career in art and still struggle with personal identity and creativity because of this.

Mezzie 4y ago

I've dabbled in "gray" things but never anything that would get me sent to prison (I lack the risk tolerance), but in case, I turned to that kind of work because playing by the rules (at the time) got me nowhere. At the time, I was reliant on Medicaid to manage my progressive illness (MS) and was limited to earning ~1k a month. Which obviously wasn't enough to live on, so I started bartering and doing work under the table. The safest kind of under the table work is work where if it's discovered, everybody involved would be 'in trouble'. That way everybody has an incentive to Shut The Fuck Up. If you put smart people into corners, they're going to find ways outside of the system to prosper. Edit: Also, if you have the right skills, you can make BANK, especially since you don't pay taxes on illicit income. I at one point made ~$100/hr, and I wasn't doing anything illegal.