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> Contrast Galadriel who acts like a self righteous dickhead with Aragorn who was reluctant to accept his calling spent and three movies proving himself to be w

> Contrast Galadriel who acts like a self righteous dickhead with Aragorn who was reluctant to accept his calling spent and three movies proving himself to be worthy of honor and love You mean three books, right? The difference here is that Aragorn was written by Tolkien, this show wasn't and has completely betrayed the original material. Race or gender swaps are not a big issue, but they become one if the purpose is the swap for the swap just for marketing purpose. Elves are almost eugenetically born all the same, want to add some diversity? Go for humans. Wanna piss off the audience so that the debate will create more engagement? do exactly what shouldn't be done, because it's out of character. Another example is the new Disney's Pinocchio, were the Blue Fairy is portrait by a black woman. The problem is not that she is black of course. but that the original story is set in Italy, Tuscany, mid 1800, were no black woman was ever seen and she is also described as "il viso bianco come un'immagine di cera" that translates to "her face as white as a wax image". It becomes clear that the black blue fairy was put there to check a box and not because she serves some need to modernize the story, which is exactly the same that Collodi wrote 140 years ago. EDIT it's the same reason why people cricized film directors that casted Scarlett Johansson for every role or the god awful Ghost in the shell live action where, not only the story was orribly mutilated, but the setup was very very far from the original Japanese one, completely ruining the experience. It's not about the colour of the skin or the gender of the actors, of course, it's about expectations. I expect Black Panther to be black, Thor to be white and blonde, Ghost in the shell to be set in futuristic Japan etc.

vermilingua 4y ago
You mean one book, right? /s
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  originally it was three, published over the span of ~1 year. 29 July 1954 (The Fellowship of the Ring) 11 November 1954 (The Two Towers) 20 October 1955 (The Return of the King)
  - vermilingua 4y ago
    Only because his publisher forced him to split it up
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  Um, six books.
farleykr 4y ago
> You mean three books, right? Point taken. My goal was to contrast the unsuccessful show with another adaptation that was successful imo.
- mcphage 4y ago
  Which unsuccessful show? The one that came out yesterday?
keepper 4y ago
>Another example is the new Disney's Pinocchio, were the Blue Fairy is portrait by a black woman. The problem is not that she is black of course. but that the original story is set in Italy, Tuscany, mid 1800, were no black woman was ever seen It’s quite clear that that is YOUR problem. It’s funny when people like yourself claim “I’m not X” while then clear laying the case. And for the récord, i hope you open up a geography book. There’s been black people in Italy for pretty much all it’s history. You may want to also read a few history books. (Black moors, Alessandro de' Medici, etc ) Also, can people just chill with this racist crap. It’s freaking art, up to interpretation. An actor can be of any race or gender. Get over it.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > It’s quite clear that that is YOUR problem. It’s funny when people like yourself claim “I’m not X” while then clear laying the case. if you don't see a problem in changing someone else's literature and culture (I am Italian and have read Pinocchio since I was a kid) than you probably don't know what respect for different cultures is. I would never think of a movie were Kunta Kinte is Dutch and is portrait by Chris Hemsworth. Would you? Also: my favourite roman emperor is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septimius_Severus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septimius_Severus He was black. But in the small village in Tuscany of 1800 depicted in Pinocchio there were no black people, I can assure you.
  - keepper 4y ago
    So you’re now equating a pseudo historical character with a children’s book? Oh brother… I was not born in Italy, but I am of Italian descent btw. Not sure why that matters, but it probably does to you :-/ Also, I guess you mean only true northern Italians can play the character lol why don’t you phrase it like that as well. See how absurd it sounds?
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > So you’re now equating a pseudo historical character with a children’s book? So you're not aware that Pinocchio is a metaphorical book about Italian society and the need for free, universal, public schools in Italy? > only true northern Italians "true northern Italians" do not exist. They are like any other Italian. It is absurd to think the contrary. Probably even "Italian" as a distinct ethnicity doesn't exist. Collodi is part of our culture, the blue fairy is part of our culture, we don't identify with her because she's white, but because she's good.
kthejoker2 4y ago
I mean ... she's a fairy, not a human .. what does her skin have to do with the time period or place in which she appeared? And there's literally zero reason to insist that Collodi's description is the only way a fairy character can be portrayed in a staged version of his book. The real problem is getting upset over the skin color of the actors and actresses playing fairies (or stormtroopers or elves or angels or for that matter any fantastical role, which is rooted in escapism and alternate realities.)
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > she's a fairy, not a human .. what does her skin have to do with the time period or place in which she appeared? I mean, why can't we have a viking Black Panther and put Wakanda near Iceland? > The real problem is getting upset over the skin color of the actors and actresses playing fairies No one is upset for that, I, as Italian, am upset that some writer thinks that Collodi's story needed to be changed in ways that add nothing to it and also betray what he clearly wrote with his own hands. The pale white skin is a well known proxy for ethereal/angelic beings, they are not white people, they are otherworldly magical creatures, made like that. There were a lot more places where they could have added diversity, they decided to go for the most obviously controversial one.
  - skywhopper 4y ago
    The race and location of Black Panther and Wakanda are integral parts of their story and character. Not the case with the blue fairy. Definitely not the case with elves in a fantasy world.
    - GameOfFrowns 4y ago
      I hate to break it to you but Black Panther IS a fantasy story set in a fantasy world. The reason why black people would lose their minds if they would have Black Panther played by a white actor is that escapist superhero fiction has become cultural identity and the superheroes are role models. Therefore replacing a central element by their oppsite, is destroying said cultural identity. Now ask yourself why it appears to be so important to Hollywood to replace white roles with black and queer actors: Why does Arielle need to be black? Why Spiderman? Why James Bond? Why Captain America? Why Roland Deschain from Dark Tower?
flarg 4y ago
Isn't it the case that race is acceptably mutable if it isn't germain to the story and that making all audiences feel more accepted and therefore happier is a laudable goal. Nothing woke about greater non white representation. Plenty snowflake about not wanting this.
- GenerocUsername 4y ago
  No. That's the lie being told these days and repeatedly blowing up on faces though
  - oblio 4y ago
    Is it a lie? Research constantly shows that people want role models like them and diverse audiences want... diverse characters :-)
  - manuelabeledo 4y ago
    So it is not acceptable? I don’t understand this position. If they add more diversity to appeal to wider audiences, that’s bad. If they make everyone white skinned, even if Tolkien himself didn’t describe most races as such, that’s fine?
  - nozzlegear 4y ago
    Blowing up in what way?
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > if it isn't germain to the story and that making all audiences feel more accepted and therefore happier is a laudable goal. why not come up with new stories then, instead of trying to make them fit in something written decades if not centuries ago? > Nothing woke about greater non white representation. the World is full of non white mythology, I would love to see something inspired by African.mythologies for example. why they keep using white (western to be precise) mythology to represent non western cultures? It's like making a new Rambo movie were everything is the same except Rambo is Vietnamese.
rchaud 4y ago
> It becomes clear that the black blue fairy was put there to check a box The movie is in English, using exclusively non-Italian actors , which in itself is checking a box. What difference does it make if they cast another non-Italian actor to play a role?
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > What difference does it make if they cast another non-Italian actor to play a role? Who said anything about being Italian? I've only quoted the author words (Collodi) The fairy is pale white not because she is a white person, but because she's pure. Pale white skin is not an Italian trait, so I don't understand what Italianness has to do with anything. If anything, the fact that she is pale white makes her obviously non-italian, because she's better than all the other characters that try to deceive and corrupt Pinocchio. EDIT: fixed wording
  - sirshmooey 4y ago
    > The fairy is pale white not because she is white, but because she's pure. Curious equivocation there.
    - krapp 4y ago
      Unfortunately that's really how Tolkien's mythology tends to work. White skin is associated with purity, darker skin with corruption and evil (or at least, between the two, "civilized" and "uncivilized".) It's a trope that's carried on into sci-fi (particularly Star Trek, where the more animalistic or violent races also tend to be darker - see the Klingons who get portrayed as darker-skinned and more aggressive with each iteration) and related high-fantasy properties like D&D.
      - zdragnar 4y ago
        There are plenty of counter examples within Star Trek of patently evil or aggressive characters and races being humanoid with light skin. This is purely your own projection.
octonion 4y ago
ABraidotti 4y ago
> Elves are almost eugenetically born all the same Elves are fictive and have a long literary history--mostly publicized by white Europeans. Originally, they were described as evil creatures who infected people with diseases. Tolkien stepped into the folklore at a particular time and place and offered his interpretation. Sticking to a tradition in which they're all genetically similar--and white--is also just an interpretation. My point is that there's no elf manual that everyone needs to stick to. You point out a good detail with Pinocchio. But again, Collodi offered his interpretation of a folk tale. In Collodi's text [1], the fish that swallowed Pinocchio is described as "Pesce-cane grosso come una casa di cinque piani e con un treno della strada ferrata in bocca" -- "huge shark [technically 'dog-fish'] like a five-story house and train on a railroad in its mouth." It was subsequent interpretations, like Disney's first version, that portrayed the fish as a whale. So I don't think it's woke, or too liberal or whatever, to portray elves as different skin colors. We shouldn't keep them white just to avoid pissing off certain audiences. 1: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/52484/52484-h/52484-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/52484/52484-h/52484-h.htm
- Gareth321 4y ago
  > My point is that there's no elf manual that everyone needs to stick to. There is when the reference material is from Tolkien. If they had made this show without any reference to LoTR then you'd be right, but they didn't.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  Elves in Tolkien word are a very specific and thoroughly described kind of fantasy creature. When adapting Tolkien, I think it helps a lot to have a manual written by Tolkien himself. > It was subsequent interpretations, like Disney's first version, that portrayed the fish as a whale. Don't let me even start on that. I believe the reasoning at the time was that a whale was already as big as a five story building. Ironically today it would be unacceptable to use a whale with shark teeths [1] as a human eating monster-fish. Animal rights activists would complain a lot most of all because wales are not even fish!! [1] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5SHMnaUIAA_GZ7?format=jpg&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5SHMnaUIAA_GZ7?format=jpg&name=...
cr__ 4y ago
I don’t think any fairies were ever seen in Tuscany either
- varajelle 4y ago
  A fairy that makes puppets alive. OK! A black woman in Italy: Impossible! Unbelievable!
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > A black woman in Italy: Impossible! Unbelievable! You're being overly dramatic. But if you want stories with black women in them, why are you adapting a book where there is none? I think that's because Pinocchio is a very good story and they know it, people.know it, and also is in the public domain. Disney "modernizing" Italian literature for free to feed their money making machine? OK! Disney adapting an African story about black women and black mythology? Impossible! Unbelievable! Which one is more probable, that Disney wants to use Pinocchio IP while also riding the inclusiveness-washing activism wave, or that Disney really actually cares about black women and their culture? sometimes people priorities really surprise me...
    - 3nd0rph1n 4y ago
      Diverse casting is in fact the laziest form of racial inclusivity possible. PLEASE make movies and series stemming from African tradition and mythology, and rightfully cast black people for that. The problem with forced diverse casting is that I can't bring myself to imagine how and why dwarves/elves/etc.. can be both black and white, since they all come from the same land in the LoTR lore. At least pick a lotr race - skin color pair and only cast people of that skin color for a determined race, I'd be ok with that. It just messes the lore for me, nothing more nothing less.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  They appear in a lot of stories, so obviously they were well known all over Europe at the time. Maybe they lived among people, who knows?
skywhopper 4y ago
This is a really disgusting and ignorant take. You should ask yourself why it matters so much to you what color skin the “Blue Fairy” has.
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  Generally because the wokeness of a few things like that is used as a stick to beat reviewers with, tarring all their valid complaints as racism. See star wars where when people like a character with a black actor (Finn) it's ignored but when people dislike a character with a Korean actor (Rose) the studio/media line is that people are racist and hate asians. If these adaptations were better their PR staff wouldn't need to blow up a few comments about race swapping by being the only thing they acknowledge, all to justify deleting the "racist criticisms" which they say are all that is plaguing their score. This is the tip of the criticism iceberg but it's all they're willing to engage with.
milesskorpen 4y ago
"in Italy, Tuscany, mid 1800, were no black woman was ever seen " Yeah, right. Clearly you've not heard about Othello, a Shakespearean play from the 1400s set in Italy with a black man as the titular character.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  Except Othello is set in Venice 4 centuries before... We study at the age of 6 that the Roman empire had black emperors, African born (see: Septimius Severus), but no, where Pinocchio is set and among the people he is living with, nobody knew about Othello or Septimius Severus, nobody could even read, for sure not Pinocchio, that is in fact turned into a donkey for being so ignorant and certainly there were no black fairy women. Sorry.
tamori 4y ago
Wait, there were no black people in Italy in the 1800s? Italy isn’t exactly far from Africa - Africans were part of the Roman Empire, and Shakespeare was writing about black people in Italy only a couple centuries earlier - Heck, Othello was based on an Italian story written around the same time as Pinocchio, and that one had a black protagonist, too! They may not have been a majority, but they existed.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > Italy isn’t exactly far from Africa yep... but there a thing called the sea between them > Africans were part of the Roman Empire 1400 years before Pinocchio times > Othello was based on an Italian story In Venice, set 400 years before Pinocchio. Where Pinocchio lived and where Collodi set the story there were no black people in ~1850s Not that some black person couldn't be found in Florence, but Pinocchio is set in a small village where people knew each other and didn't travel far from home. People mostly lived a self segregated life. There's a reason why there aren't many popular Italian books of the time including black people, they were not a numerous presence. I Promessi Sposi (The Betrothed from Manzoni) it's probably the most popular Italian novel ever, it was written around the same time of Pinocchio and is set in Milan in 1630s during the plague and the Spanish rule. There isn't a single black person mentioned in the ~600 pages that make the book.
chimeracoder 4y ago
> Italy, Tuscany, mid 1800, [where] no black woman was ever seen I hear people say things like this a lot, and it's always jarring to me to think where they get that impression, because it's quite ahistorical. Going back actually all the way to antiquity (Romans, Vikings), there was far more visible diversity across Europe than what you typically see in cinematic portrayals. The homogenous image people have is a product of Hollywood, not a reflection of what the time period was actually like. Anyway, your statement is objectively incorrect, even beyond the obvious hyperbole. There were plenty of Black people in Italy in that time period, enough that it's really not shocking to imagine one as a magical character in a literal fairy tale.
- nec4b 4y ago
  There are still plenty of villages in Europe, where older people, who don't go to the cities, have never seen a black person in real life in their lives. So I would dare to guess very very few people saw a black women in mid 1800s in Tuscany. Objectively your perception of European history and its people is wrong.

vermilingua 4y ago

You mean one book, right? /s

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
originally it was three, published over the span of ~1 year. 29 July 1954 (The Fellowship of the Ring) 11 November 1954 (The Two Towers) 20 October 1955 (The Return of the King)
- vermilingua 4y ago
  Only because his publisher forced him to split it up
JKCalhoun 4y ago
Um, six books.

farleykr 4y ago

> You mean three books, right? Point taken. My goal was to contrast the unsuccessful show with another adaptation that was successful imo.

mcphage 4y ago
Which unsuccessful show? The one that came out yesterday?

keepper 4y ago

>Another example is the new Disney's Pinocchio, were the Blue Fairy is portrait by a black woman. The problem is not that she is black of course. but that the original story is set in Italy, Tuscany, mid 1800, were no black woman was ever seen It’s quite clear that that is YOUR problem. It’s funny when people like yourself claim “I’m not X” while then clear laying the case. And for the récord, i hope you open up a geography book. There’s been black people in Italy for pretty much all it’s history. You may want to also read a few history books. (Black moors, Alessandro de' Medici, etc ) Also, can people just chill with this racist crap. It’s freaking art, up to interpretation. An actor can be of any race or gender. Get over it.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> It’s quite clear that that is YOUR problem. It’s funny when people like yourself claim “I’m not X” while then clear laying the case. if you don't see a problem in changing someone else's literature and culture (I am Italian and have read Pinocchio since I was a kid) than you probably don't know what respect for different cultures is. I would never think of a movie were Kunta Kinte is Dutch and is portrait by Chris Hemsworth. Would you? Also: my favourite roman emperor is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septimius_Severus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septimius_Severus He was black. But in the small village in Tuscany of 1800 depicted in Pinocchio there were no black people, I can assure you.
- keepper 4y ago
  So you’re now equating a pseudo historical character with a children’s book? Oh brother… I was not born in Italy, but I am of Italian descent btw. Not sure why that matters, but it probably does to you :-/ Also, I guess you mean only true northern Italians can play the character lol why don’t you phrase it like that as well. See how absurd it sounds?
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > So you’re now equating a pseudo historical character with a children’s book? So you're not aware that Pinocchio is a metaphorical book about Italian society and the need for free, universal, public schools in Italy? > only true northern Italians "true northern Italians" do not exist. They are like any other Italian. It is absurd to think the contrary. Probably even "Italian" as a distinct ethnicity doesn't exist. Collodi is part of our culture, the blue fairy is part of our culture, we don't identify with her because she's white, but because she's good.

kthejoker2 4y ago

I mean ... she's a fairy, not a human .. what does her skin have to do with the time period or place in which she appeared? And there's literally zero reason to insist that Collodi's description is the only way a fairy character can be portrayed in a staged version of his book. The real problem is getting upset over the skin color of the actors and actresses playing fairies (or stormtroopers or elves or angels or for that matter any fantastical role, which is rooted in escapism and alternate realities.)

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> she's a fairy, not a human .. what does her skin have to do with the time period or place in which she appeared? I mean, why can't we have a viking Black Panther and put Wakanda near Iceland? > The real problem is getting upset over the skin color of the actors and actresses playing fairies No one is upset for that, I, as Italian, am upset that some writer thinks that Collodi's story needed to be changed in ways that add nothing to it and also betray what he clearly wrote with his own hands. The pale white skin is a well known proxy for ethereal/angelic beings, they are not white people, they are otherworldly magical creatures, made like that. There were a lot more places where they could have added diversity, they decided to go for the most obviously controversial one.
- skywhopper 4y ago
  The race and location of Black Panther and Wakanda are integral parts of their story and character. Not the case with the blue fairy. Definitely not the case with elves in a fantasy world.
  - GameOfFrowns 4y ago
    I hate to break it to you but Black Panther IS a fantasy story set in a fantasy world. The reason why black people would lose their minds if they would have Black Panther played by a white actor is that escapist superhero fiction has become cultural identity and the superheroes are role models. Therefore replacing a central element by their oppsite, is destroying said cultural identity. Now ask yourself why it appears to be so important to Hollywood to replace white roles with black and queer actors: Why does Arielle need to be black? Why Spiderman? Why James Bond? Why Captain America? Why Roland Deschain from Dark Tower?

flarg 4y ago

Isn't it the case that race is acceptably mutable if it isn't germain to the story and that making all audiences feel more accepted and therefore happier is a laudable goal. Nothing woke about greater non white representation. Plenty snowflake about not wanting this.

GenerocUsername 4y ago
No. That's the lie being told these days and repeatedly blowing up on faces though
- oblio 4y ago
  Is it a lie? Research constantly shows that people want role models like them and diverse audiences want... diverse characters :-)
- manuelabeledo 4y ago
  So it is not acceptable? I don’t understand this position. If they add more diversity to appeal to wider audiences, that’s bad. If they make everyone white skinned, even if Tolkien himself didn’t describe most races as such, that’s fine?
- nozzlegear 4y ago
  Blowing up in what way?
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> if it isn't germain to the story and that making all audiences feel more accepted and therefore happier is a laudable goal. why not come up with new stories then, instead of trying to make them fit in something written decades if not centuries ago? > Nothing woke about greater non white representation. the World is full of non white mythology, I would love to see something inspired by African.mythologies for example. why they keep using white (western to be precise) mythology to represent non western cultures? It's like making a new Rambo movie were everything is the same except Rambo is Vietnamese.

rchaud 4y ago

> It becomes clear that the black blue fairy was put there to check a box The movie is in English, using exclusively non-Italian actors , which in itself is checking a box. What difference does it make if they cast another non-Italian actor to play a role?

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> What difference does it make if they cast another non-Italian actor to play a role? Who said anything about being Italian? I've only quoted the author words (Collodi) The fairy is pale white not because she is a white person, but because she's pure. Pale white skin is not an Italian trait, so I don't understand what Italianness has to do with anything. If anything, the fact that she is pale white makes her obviously non-italian, because she's better than all the other characters that try to deceive and corrupt Pinocchio. EDIT: fixed wording
- sirshmooey 4y ago
  > The fairy is pale white not because she is white, but because she's pure. Curious equivocation there.
  - krapp 4y ago
    Unfortunately that's really how Tolkien's mythology tends to work. White skin is associated with purity, darker skin with corruption and evil (or at least, between the two, "civilized" and "uncivilized".) It's a trope that's carried on into sci-fi (particularly Star Trek, where the more animalistic or violent races also tend to be darker - see the Klingons who get portrayed as darker-skinned and more aggressive with each iteration) and related high-fantasy properties like D&D.
    - zdragnar 4y ago
      There are plenty of counter examples within Star Trek of patently evil or aggressive characters and races being humanoid with light skin. This is purely your own projection.

octonion 4y ago

ABraidotti 4y ago

> Elves are almost eugenetically born all the same Elves are fictive and have a long literary history--mostly publicized by white Europeans. Originally, they were described as evil creatures who infected people with diseases. Tolkien stepped into the folklore at a particular time and place and offered his interpretation. Sticking to a tradition in which they're all genetically similar--and white--is also just an interpretation. My point is that there's no elf manual that everyone needs to stick to. You point out a good detail with Pinocchio. But again, Collodi offered his interpretation of a folk tale. In Collodi's text [1], the fish that swallowed Pinocchio is described as "Pesce-cane grosso come una casa di cinque piani e con un treno della strada ferrata in bocca" -- "huge shark [technically 'dog-fish'] like a five-story house and train on a railroad in its mouth." It was subsequent interpretations, like Disney's first version, that portrayed the fish as a whale. So I don't think it's woke, or too liberal or whatever, to portray elves as different skin colors. We shouldn't keep them white just to avoid pissing off certain audiences. 1: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/52484/52484-h/52484-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/52484/52484-h/52484-h.htm

Gareth321 4y ago
> My point is that there's no elf manual that everyone needs to stick to. There is when the reference material is from Tolkien. If they had made this show without any reference to LoTR then you'd be right, but they didn't.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
Elves in Tolkien word are a very specific and thoroughly described kind of fantasy creature. When adapting Tolkien, I think it helps a lot to have a manual written by Tolkien himself. > It was subsequent interpretations, like Disney's first version, that portrayed the fish as a whale. Don't let me even start on that. I believe the reasoning at the time was that a whale was already as big as a five story building. Ironically today it would be unacceptable to use a whale with shark teeths [1] as a human eating monster-fish. Animal rights activists would complain a lot most of all because wales are not even fish!! [1] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5SHMnaUIAA_GZ7?format=jpg&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5SHMnaUIAA_GZ7?format=jpg&name=...

cr__ 4y ago

I don’t think any fairies were ever seen in Tuscany either

varajelle 4y ago
A fairy that makes puppets alive. OK! A black woman in Italy: Impossible! Unbelievable!
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > A black woman in Italy: Impossible! Unbelievable! You're being overly dramatic. But if you want stories with black women in them, why are you adapting a book where there is none? I think that's because Pinocchio is a very good story and they know it, people.know it, and also is in the public domain. Disney "modernizing" Italian literature for free to feed their money making machine? OK! Disney adapting an African story about black women and black mythology? Impossible! Unbelievable! Which one is more probable, that Disney wants to use Pinocchio IP while also riding the inclusiveness-washing activism wave, or that Disney really actually cares about black women and their culture? sometimes people priorities really surprise me...
  - 3nd0rph1n 4y ago
    Diverse casting is in fact the laziest form of racial inclusivity possible. PLEASE make movies and series stemming from African tradition and mythology, and rightfully cast black people for that. The problem with forced diverse casting is that I can't bring myself to imagine how and why dwarves/elves/etc.. can be both black and white, since they all come from the same land in the LoTR lore. At least pick a lotr race - skin color pair and only cast people of that skin color for a determined race, I'd be ok with that. It just messes the lore for me, nothing more nothing less.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
They appear in a lot of stories, so obviously they were well known all over Europe at the time. Maybe they lived among people, who knows?

skywhopper 4y ago

This is a really disgusting and ignorant take. You should ask yourself why it matters so much to you what color skin the “Blue Fairy” has.

LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
Generally because the wokeness of a few things like that is used as a stick to beat reviewers with, tarring all their valid complaints as racism. See star wars where when people like a character with a black actor (Finn) it's ignored but when people dislike a character with a Korean actor (Rose) the studio/media line is that people are racist and hate asians. If these adaptations were better their PR staff wouldn't need to blow up a few comments about race swapping by being the only thing they acknowledge, all to justify deleting the "racist criticisms" which they say are all that is plaguing their score. This is the tip of the criticism iceberg but it's all they're willing to engage with.

milesskorpen 4y ago

"in Italy, Tuscany, mid 1800, were no black woman was ever seen " Yeah, right. Clearly you've not heard about Othello, a Shakespearean play from the 1400s set in Italy with a black man as the titular character.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
Except Othello is set in Venice 4 centuries before... We study at the age of 6 that the Roman empire had black emperors, African born (see: Septimius Severus), but no, where Pinocchio is set and among the people he is living with, nobody knew about Othello or Septimius Severus, nobody could even read, for sure not Pinocchio, that is in fact turned into a donkey for being so ignorant and certainly there were no black fairy women. Sorry.

tamori 4y ago

Wait, there were no black people in Italy in the 1800s? Italy isn’t exactly far from Africa - Africans were part of the Roman Empire, and Shakespeare was writing about black people in Italy only a couple centuries earlier - Heck, Othello was based on an Italian story written around the same time as Pinocchio, and that one had a black protagonist, too! They may not have been a majority, but they existed.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> Italy isn’t exactly far from Africa yep... but there a thing called the sea between them > Africans were part of the Roman Empire 1400 years before Pinocchio times > Othello was based on an Italian story In Venice, set 400 years before Pinocchio. Where Pinocchio lived and where Collodi set the story there were no black people in ~1850s Not that some black person couldn't be found in Florence, but Pinocchio is set in a small village where people knew each other and didn't travel far from home. People mostly lived a self segregated life. There's a reason why there aren't many popular Italian books of the time including black people, they were not a numerous presence. I Promessi Sposi (The Betrothed from Manzoni) it's probably the most popular Italian novel ever, it was written around the same time of Pinocchio and is set in Milan in 1630s during the plague and the Spanish rule. There isn't a single black person mentioned in the ~600 pages that make the book.

chimeracoder 4y ago

> Italy, Tuscany, mid 1800, [where] no black woman was ever seen I hear people say things like this a lot, and it's always jarring to me to think where they get that impression, because it's quite ahistorical. Going back actually all the way to antiquity (Romans, Vikings), there was far more visible diversity across Europe than what you typically see in cinematic portrayals. The homogenous image people have is a product of Hollywood, not a reflection of what the time period was actually like. Anyway, your statement is objectively incorrect, even beyond the obvious hyperbole. There were plenty of Black people in Italy in that time period, enough that it's really not shocking to imagine one as a magical character in a literal fairy tale.

nec4b 4y ago
There are still plenty of villages in Europe, where older people, who don't go to the cities, have never seen a black person in real life in their lives. So I would dare to guess very very few people saw a black women in mid 1800s in Tuscany. Objectively your perception of European history and its people is wrong.