7 ms·

I wonder if the same effects can be attained by someone who has used psychedelics recreationionally their entire life, from say 16 onward. is it the external gu

I wonder if the same effects can be attained by someone who has used psychedelics recreationionally their entire life, from say 16 onward. is it the external guidance during the experience that really makes the difference? or is a life of experiences responsible for one not having anxiety or depression on those levels

Ayesh 4y ago
Psychedelics, LSD in particular, see their major use being a party drug. Coming from a personal experience, many people decide the "trip" they want to go on way before the trip starts. I am pretty sure there are non-zero amount of people who regularly take psychedelics, but have never been on that kind of "trips" that instead of going deep into your own mind, they just enjoy EDM, a party, perhaps a hike, paint something, watch a movie, play some sports outside, play video games, etc.
- recyclelater 4y ago
  Edit: I wanted to amend this to say I don’t think people should use psychedelics regularly, which I think my original comment below might imply. Lots of downsides to regular use, occasional (every couple years) seems to have little risk and some benefits in my experience. Original text below is unedited. I dunno, if you regularly use lsd or mushrooms, you probably have had a “wow that was more than I wanted” experience, that means you had complete ego loss, had the veil of reality completely pulled back so you could “see” the arbitrariness of society and human interactions. Your embarrassing actions you have been deluding yourself about come crashing down around you. You sober up and you rationalize some of it away but there’s a big nagging thing in the back of your mind screaming “maybe you should stop doing ____”. At least this has happened to me on a couple of occasions and has led to me apologizing to people, changing my default behaviors, etc. I am not a super introspective person so the kick in the head that psychedelics occasionally provide has allowed for some personality changes that were necessary and good. As an adult I now recognize that these experiences could be beneficial as therapy with the right person to guide you through it, that most people probably don’t get the full benefit these occasional experiences provide by themselves. I didn’t think this while young and just partying (though did have a bit of woo woo collective consciousness mind expansion mindset). Anything other than the recreation aspects of it were me trying to justify why it was ok, and getting high a lot is generally not ok. I actually sobered up for rest of my life after a strong mushroom trip left me thinking I was wasting my life and going down the wrong path. In short, there’s meat here, but of course with all these things there will be people riding a fad and making a buck, but bad usually tags along with the good in some amount.
- MauranKilom 4y ago
  > "trips" that instead of going deep into your own mind, they just enjoy [stuff] Those are also not mutually exclusive, to be clear. Come for the dance, stay for the self-insight.
mudrockbestgirl 4y ago
It's difficult to explain if you haven't had that kind of experience yourself, but one way to describe it is that psychedelics (some more so than others) open up a window that allows for change. You are no longer stuck in your old ways of thinking that you took for granted. But the experiences themselves don't change you. You still need to put in the work to make the changes. You can certainly do this without a guide. But if you take these drugs recreationally without such intentions and without putting in hard work pre- and post-session, nothing much is going to happen in the long term. A guide will help you to get the most out of the experience (while also helping with trip safety). It's not about whether you use psychedlics or not, it's about how you take them.
- hammyhavoc 4y ago
  "It's not about whether you use psychedlics or not" "without putting in hard work pre- and post-session, nothing much is going to happen in the long term" Sounds a lot like cognitive bias to me. It's ultimately a placebo if you still need to put the work in. Ergo, you could achieve the same results even without taking it. It's attributing personal growth to a drug rather than to your own willpower to do something.
  - bambataa 4y ago
    I’m not sure I agree, because people might put in the hard work without the psychedelic and not experience the benefit. Michael Pollan’s “How to change your mind” talks about psychedelic studies where the more effective, longer lasting changes are seen by the people who had more “mystic” experiences. It’s not just about good intentions, or just taking psychedelics, but seemingly priming your mind to use the psychedelics to (temporarily) change fundamental thought patterns.
  - mudrockbestgirl 4y ago
    By that definition, getting therapy is also a placebo. You could go to therapy "recreationally" without wanting to get better or work on yourself. But that's not going to help you. You still need to put in work. Does that make therapy a placebo?
nico 4y ago
Not sure, but I have a friend who has plenty of experience with psychedelics, and he just had his first session of psychedelic therapy with ketamine (done by a medical professional trained to do it). After the session he said it was very different to anything he had done before and that he felt he made a ton of progress. My guess is that the intention that you set before “the trip”, really impacts the experience and hence the results. As well as having a professional guide/sitter that knows how to guide you and create a therapeutic setting.
- hesdeadjim 4y ago
  Buddy of mine recently did a two session psychedelic ketamine treatment with intensive pre and post-support therapy. The changes in his negative habits and ruminative thoughts were impressive. He had done LSD a few times, but he said the ketamine was a much more “safe” feeling experience. I’ve been considering it myself, despite not being depressed or anxious, just to see what channels of growth it might open up.
  - mmsnberbar66 4y ago
    where can you do these therapies?
    - cypherpunks01 4y ago
      USA directory here: https://www.askp.org/directory/ https://www.askp.org/directory/
brnt 4y ago
> is it the external guidance during the experience that really makes the difference? That's what psychiatrists using psycho active drugs say: without proper stage setting and guidance, the experience can be terrifying and traumatic in itself. Remember, not everybody has good trips, especially not people dealing with depression and trauma.

Ayesh 4y ago

Psychedelics, LSD in particular, see their major use being a party drug. Coming from a personal experience, many people decide the "trip" they want to go on way before the trip starts. I am pretty sure there are non-zero amount of people who regularly take psychedelics, but have never been on that kind of "trips" that instead of going deep into your own mind, they just enjoy EDM, a party, perhaps a hike, paint something, watch a movie, play some sports outside, play video games, etc.

recyclelater 4y ago
Edit: I wanted to amend this to say I don’t think people should use psychedelics regularly, which I think my original comment below might imply. Lots of downsides to regular use, occasional (every couple years) seems to have little risk and some benefits in my experience. Original text below is unedited. I dunno, if you regularly use lsd or mushrooms, you probably have had a “wow that was more than I wanted” experience, that means you had complete ego loss, had the veil of reality completely pulled back so you could “see” the arbitrariness of society and human interactions. Your embarrassing actions you have been deluding yourself about come crashing down around you. You sober up and you rationalize some of it away but there’s a big nagging thing in the back of your mind screaming “maybe you should stop doing ____”. At least this has happened to me on a couple of occasions and has led to me apologizing to people, changing my default behaviors, etc. I am not a super introspective person so the kick in the head that psychedelics occasionally provide has allowed for some personality changes that were necessary and good. As an adult I now recognize that these experiences could be beneficial as therapy with the right person to guide you through it, that most people probably don’t get the full benefit these occasional experiences provide by themselves. I didn’t think this while young and just partying (though did have a bit of woo woo collective consciousness mind expansion mindset). Anything other than the recreation aspects of it were me trying to justify why it was ok, and getting high a lot is generally not ok. I actually sobered up for rest of my life after a strong mushroom trip left me thinking I was wasting my life and going down the wrong path. In short, there’s meat here, but of course with all these things there will be people riding a fad and making a buck, but bad usually tags along with the good in some amount.
MauranKilom 4y ago
> "trips" that instead of going deep into your own mind, they just enjoy [stuff] Those are also not mutually exclusive, to be clear. Come for the dance, stay for the self-insight.

mudrockbestgirl 4y ago

It's difficult to explain if you haven't had that kind of experience yourself, but one way to describe it is that psychedelics (some more so than others) open up a window that allows for change. You are no longer stuck in your old ways of thinking that you took for granted. But the experiences themselves don't change you. You still need to put in the work to make the changes. You can certainly do this without a guide. But if you take these drugs recreationally without such intentions and without putting in hard work pre- and post-session, nothing much is going to happen in the long term. A guide will help you to get the most out of the experience (while also helping with trip safety). It's not about whether you use psychedlics or not, it's about how you take them.

hammyhavoc 4y ago
"It's not about whether you use psychedlics or not" "without putting in hard work pre- and post-session, nothing much is going to happen in the long term" Sounds a lot like cognitive bias to me. It's ultimately a placebo if you still need to put the work in. Ergo, you could achieve the same results even without taking it. It's attributing personal growth to a drug rather than to your own willpower to do something.
- bambataa 4y ago
  I’m not sure I agree, because people might put in the hard work without the psychedelic and not experience the benefit. Michael Pollan’s “How to change your mind” talks about psychedelic studies where the more effective, longer lasting changes are seen by the people who had more “mystic” experiences. It’s not just about good intentions, or just taking psychedelics, but seemingly priming your mind to use the psychedelics to (temporarily) change fundamental thought patterns.
- mudrockbestgirl 4y ago
  By that definition, getting therapy is also a placebo. You could go to therapy "recreationally" without wanting to get better or work on yourself. But that's not going to help you. You still need to put in work. Does that make therapy a placebo?

nico 4y ago

Not sure, but I have a friend who has plenty of experience with psychedelics, and he just had his first session of psychedelic therapy with ketamine (done by a medical professional trained to do it). After the session he said it was very different to anything he had done before and that he felt he made a ton of progress. My guess is that the intention that you set before “the trip”, really impacts the experience and hence the results. As well as having a professional guide/sitter that knows how to guide you and create a therapeutic setting.

hesdeadjim 4y ago
Buddy of mine recently did a two session psychedelic ketamine treatment with intensive pre and post-support therapy. The changes in his negative habits and ruminative thoughts were impressive. He had done LSD a few times, but he said the ketamine was a much more “safe” feeling experience. I’ve been considering it myself, despite not being depressed or anxious, just to see what channels of growth it might open up.
- mmsnberbar66 4y ago
  where can you do these therapies?
  - cypherpunks01 4y ago
    USA directory here: https://www.askp.org/directory/ https://www.askp.org/directory/

brnt 4y ago

> is it the external guidance during the experience that really makes the difference? That's what psychiatrists using psycho active drugs say: without proper stage setting and guidance, the experience can be terrifying and traumatic in itself. Remember, not everybody has good trips, especially not people dealing with depression and trauma.