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How would an airline capacity plan with just a reservation? Seems like a backwards approach to just mandating the airline pay you back if they fail to provide s
by justWells 4y ago
How would an airline capacity plan with just a reservation? Seems like a backwards approach to just mandating the airline pay you back if they fail to provide service
- foepys 4y agoAirlines are already overbooking flights. The whole thing came up because airlines don't pay back customers in a timely manner. It can takes months to get your money back from airlines even when the airline is fully at fault.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- TedDoesntTalk 4y agoIcelandAir gave me a credit instead of refund when they canceled my flight in early COVID days. I called asking for a refund and was refused. The credit expired before I could use it. Why is there an expiration? This was in excess of $2000. I’ll never fly IcelandAir again.
- rich_sasha 4y agoIn (un)fairness it sounds like what all airlines do.
- plugin-baby 4y agoBritish Airways gave straight refunds automatically at the start of the pandemic.
- ascar 4y agoMy Ryanair Tickets were also converted to credits, but I was able to ask for money when they expired.
- consp 4y agoSince Iceland is in the EU, you should check a bit more if that's allowed. I'm pretty sure it isn't and when the credit expires you should still be able to collect the original amount, at least that is what happened in some other instances to avoid liquidity crisis with airlines and holiday agencies.
- zaarn 4y agoIceland is not in the EU. They are in the process of joining since like a decade but have never completed their application. They are in the EFTA and the EEA however.
- osivertsson 4y agoAccording to an Icelandic friend not fully joining the EU is on purpose. There are people on Iceland that enjoys the benefits of EFTA and EEA, yet does not want to fully tackle corruption. Iceland is the most corrupt Nordic country by far (yet on a global scale still pretty good).
- zaarn 4y agoWell yes and no, the topmost reason is that rural folk simply are very eurosceptic there (see polls on that matter) and the election system favors them a bit, so overall, the eurosceptic parties remain in power (for now). Though I've yet to see an analysis on the matter since Russia's imperialistic invasion of Ukraine.
- magicalhippo 4y agoIceland, like Norway where I'm from, is part of the European Economic Area[1] through the European Free Trade Association[2], but not a full EU-member. They get access to the EU single market, by agreeing to implement EU legislation in a number of areas. It can be quite confusing at times. For example, both Iceland and Norway are part of the Schengen agreement[3], so in that respect we're "from EU" when traveling. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Associatio... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement
- jules 4y agoHow is this not straight up fraud?
- asdajksah2123 4y agoThe article covers it right at the end. > “Everyone must be aware that at the time of booking you are entering into a contract of carriage that is subject to certain conditions, such as no-show and/or rebooking fees.”
- markeibes 4y agoThey already plan deviously right now by overbooking.
- kortilla 4y agos/deviously/optimally I don’t care about the financial success of airlines but I sure as fuck don’t want jet fuel burned pushing around empty seats.
- kashkhan 4y agoSure you do. Airplanes should be at least 10% empty on average. High load factors are bad for the travellers. If you want to save fuel fly 5% slower and save 10% fuel.
- TomatoTomato 4y agoAre you saying maximizing load factors are worse for fuel economy or just slowing down would be a preferred cost saving measure in your opinion? Average load factor in the US is already <90%. Either way, what about the unintended consequences for travellers if a slow down was mandated permanently? You would need at least 15% more planes, pilots, ground personnel, etc... to handle the reduced bandwidth. For non-direct flights, fewer connections could be made likely increasing the airport population its ancillary services. Airlines already do this from time to time usually when fuel costs outpaces pricing power: https://www.reuters.com/article/airlines-fuelcells-kemp/refile-column-airlines-fly-slower-to-cut-fuel-bill-kemp-idUSL6N0RR2ZO20140926 https://www.reuters.com/article/airlines-fuelcells-kemp/refi...
- nehalem 4y agoIn this context and under German law, a reservation would be an enforceable contract between passenger and airline. If a passenger does not show up, the airline can sue for payment. Hence the proposal mostly shifts the burden of litigation to the airline. In Germany, airlines have a strong incentive to refuse any refund. Courts are very slow to render decisions and the worst that can happen is being ordered to refund the original amount. Behaviour-correcting damages do not exist under German law. In combination this deters some passengers from pursuing their claim. Edit: Airlines would also be ordered to pay court and lawyer fees which could be construed incentivising. Yet both fees are statutory capped and quite low for the average ticket price.
- Ma8ee 4y ago> the worst that can happen is being ordered to refund the original amount. That just isn't true. The airlines often pretend that isn't the case, but just linking to, e.g., the site below usually make them pay without too much hassle. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-right...
- nehalem 4y agoThose are passenger rights, a set of rules different from German laws of contract. Also, for cancellations there is no compensation if the flight was cancelled early enough or if the airline can prove exceptional circumstances.
- Ma8ee 4y agoAll airlines starting or landing in Germany have to follow those laws. It’s inconsequential whether they are directly codified in German law or not. It’s correct that they aren’t without conditions, but I don’t think anyone think they should be. They have to compensate you if they cancel the flight less than 2 weeks before departure. I’ve gotten €600 twice after different delays or reroutings. So while you can have opinions about the exact conditions, you can’t argue there are none.
- 4y ago
- skrause 4y agoThey are mandated to pay you back if they fail to provide service. However, that doesn't help you in case of a bankruptcy. Paying months ahead is basically giving the airline an unsecured loan and lots of German consumers were hit when Air Berling went bankrupt. Under German bankruptcy laws even a credit card chargeback won't help you, that money is mostly gone.
- physicsguy 4y agoProbably put an authorisation on the card at booking time, similar to how hotels do
- ars 4y agoNever mind that --- how am I supposed to plan a time critical journey if I don't know in advance if I'll actually have a seat on the plane? This kind of pay-on-the-spot only works when there's tons of capacity, if you don't take this one, you'll get the next, no problem, and where the provider doesn't need 100% usage, i.e. where costs are incremental rather than fixed. And airplane fails that criteria in both ways. This plan is bad for both airline and customer.
- Arnt 4y agoYou sign a contract that requires the airline to fly on a certain date and you to pay on a specified date. The only change from today in the normal case is that the two dates are the same. The big changes are in two unusual cases: ① The airline closes before you fly, such as Swissair, Air Berlin etc. In that case you don't pay. ② The airline cancels your reservation, as many did during the early covid phase. In that case you and the airline quarrel about nonperformance of the contract, just as you do now, but you have the money during the quarrel instead of the airline offering you a voucher.
- cm2187 4y agoIt would make more sense for the payment to be put on escrow.
- mihaaly 4y ago"How would an airline capacity plan with just a reservation?" Responsibly perhaps? So they make the most effort to make sure the service is delivered since it will only be paid if they can deliver? I know it is a novelty idea paying for only the received service when received, something never been used throughout the history before as one always had to pay well in advance and then may or may not receive the service paid for, but perhaps we could get used to this very novel and revolutionary idea, no? : ) I believe this paying for something not delivered yet and run circles getting back if not delivered at all on the agreed terms is in the benefit of the airlines. Being abused many many times. Otherwise we wouldn't have needed extensive and stict regulations about compensations. This may change. There is a desire for it from customers.
- drstewart 4y agoWill you be okay with prices going up significantly to account for the fact that scheduling is now done "responsively" and thus efficiency is at a much lower capacity? : )