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>The question is "why are we raising children this way when we weren't raised this way ourselves?" I feel like the investment into individual children is much

>The question is "why are we raising children this way when we weren't raised this way ourselves?" I feel like the investment into individual children is much much higher than it used to be (time/resources/emotions). When you have 5 kids it's not that you don't care, but you literally can't be as protective about them as you can when you're only raising one or two. And then as people have less children the norms gradually change.

SoftTalker 4y ago
Also media hysterics. The same number of kids were probably abused in a variety of ways 50 years ago. Maybe more than today, even. But what most people knew about the news was what was in the local paper and maybe they watched 30 minutes of national news on TV. They didn't have a device in their pocket alerting them in real-time about a kidnapping story in another state. People are not good at assessing probability of risk. If they hear about something, they think it's likely. So they get more and more afraid.
- nradov 4y ago
  The real change started with the kidnapping and murder of Eton Patz in 1979. The case was nationally publicized, and was one of the factors leading to putting pictures of missing children on milk cartons. That really scared a lot of parents (I do understand that the fear was mostly irrational). https://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/kidnappings/etan-patz/ https://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/kidnappings/etan-p...
  - notch656a 4y ago
    I don't worry at all about kidnappings. What I worry about is CPS and police officers claiming child endangerment. In my state you can be charged with child endangerment just for leaving the kid strapped into the seat on a moderate day while you walk in to pay the gas station attendant. You could potentially be arrested and charged for letting a 7 year old play alone at the park for a bit. The kidnappers are real. But they're the CPS and police, and they can't wait to put your kids into a brutal kids-for-cash foster care system. They draw their salary under the guise of "safety" while victimizing children and sapping their independence. And busybodies everywhere have a device at the ready in their pocket, that allows them to invite months of scrutiny into your life based on 30 seconds of effort on their own part, after which the law prevents you from finding their identity or facing your accuser.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      Irrational reactions to statistically anomalous "stranger danger" and similiar are why CPS has that power in the first place.
      - notch656a 4y ago
        A good point, although it's worth noting CPS and police are not so statistically anomalous as strangers who kidnap children.
  - syntheweave 4y ago
    I believe the real shift was generational: by 1979 it was the cusp of the earliest Boomers who were raising young kids. They weren't like their parents, growing up in post-war life: They were scared of urban pollution and crime, and didn't have a popular collective experience like WWII, but a divisive one(the 60's, in sum) which helped produce a variety of bogeyman narratives of dangerous Vietnam veterans roaming the streets, illegal immigrants selling drugs, Satanic cult leaders and so forth. Part of the embracing of Reagan's America was in overlooking the parts of this narrative that were self-inflicted by prior US actions, and moving blame to scapegoats. Thus, "stranger danger", distrust of the city, and a general self-alienation with society in favor of personal safety was normalized at that time. There were definite benefits to the Boomer outlook at the time: smog was curtailed, health-conscious diet and regular exercise became a popular idea(albeit heavily fad-driven). But it also created a more litigious, low-trust climate, which has only driven in the alienation further. Today's political climate is a sort of crescendo on all those concerns, and I see in the current working-age generations much greater willingness to change the deal.
- LorenPechtel 4y ago
  You've got it wrong--the actual rate of abuse has gone down considerably, not merely the same as it used to be. You are right that it's being magnified by the news competing for eyeballs. And the greatest risk isn't the stranger, it's people you know and trust. The vast, vast majority of people aren't going to harm a kid--you teach kids that if they need help they should go up to an adult and ask. That reduces the risk much further.
  - josiahpeters 4y ago
    Do you have a source for this? I would love to have this in my back pocket for future discussions about this topic.
    - rovolo 4y ago
      I'm not sure about abuse statistics, but these are the U.S. stats for kidnapping: https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2021-ncic-missing-person-and-unidentified-person-statistics.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2021-ncic-missing-person... 2021 missing-person stats: - 94.5% (231k) runaway - 1% (2,555) abducted by non-custodial parent - 0.1% (331) abducted by stranger - 4.3% (10k) adult
- Foobar8568 4y ago
  I am living in Switzerland, in a rather good 20k town, I get out of my building, I see 2 permanent drug dealers. And there is a constant stream of news about murders or tentative ones. Oh and we have judges who are protecting rapists, e.g. saying they were looking for being raped, yes an actual judges, fuck that shit. Our era is just different.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    Drug dealers are not going to harm your children.
bitlax 4y ago
Certainly not time since many more families are dual income or have only one involved parent. Also the quality of the time matters. Weekend time and after-work time is not equivalent to morning and midday productive time.
- moonchrome 4y ago
  >Certainly not time since many more families are dual income or have only one involved parent Your time investment is even greater value (to you) since you have less out-of-work time overall.
hilbert42 4y ago
"I feel like the investment into individual children is much much higher than it used to be (time/resources/emotions)." Why, and is this important and or a problem? BTW, I don't claim to have an answer.
licebmi__at__ 4y ago
Just yesterday I was listening my grandmother talking me about her life. He told me about a kid about 7 years old who went to the field with some horses so they could eat, and then he was killed by some other kids who were threw rocks at him. My wife asked if the culprits were punished and my grandma told her that was not the case. She told us that the police didn’t cared much, and the parents were too busy with the rest of the kids to try to pressure the authorities.
alanwreath 4y ago
Not sure if what you’re saying is the norm or if I’m an outlier but I have more than 5 kids and fall into the group that had a relatively relaxed childhood yet restricts activities out of fear (or whatever it should be referred to).

SoftTalker 4y ago

Also media hysterics. The same number of kids were probably abused in a variety of ways 50 years ago. Maybe more than today, even. But what most people knew about the news was what was in the local paper and maybe they watched 30 minutes of national news on TV. They didn't have a device in their pocket alerting them in real-time about a kidnapping story in another state. People are not good at assessing probability of risk. If they hear about something, they think it's likely. So they get more and more afraid.

nradov 4y ago
The real change started with the kidnapping and murder of Eton Patz in 1979. The case was nationally publicized, and was one of the factors leading to putting pictures of missing children on milk cartons. That really scared a lot of parents (I do understand that the fear was mostly irrational). https://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/kidnappings/etan-patz/ https://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/kidnappings/etan-p...
- notch656a 4y ago
  I don't worry at all about kidnappings. What I worry about is CPS and police officers claiming child endangerment. In my state you can be charged with child endangerment just for leaving the kid strapped into the seat on a moderate day while you walk in to pay the gas station attendant. You could potentially be arrested and charged for letting a 7 year old play alone at the park for a bit. The kidnappers are real. But they're the CPS and police, and they can't wait to put your kids into a brutal kids-for-cash foster care system. They draw their salary under the guise of "safety" while victimizing children and sapping their independence. And busybodies everywhere have a device at the ready in their pocket, that allows them to invite months of scrutiny into your life based on 30 seconds of effort on their own part, after which the law prevents you from finding their identity or facing your accuser.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    Irrational reactions to statistically anomalous "stranger danger" and similiar are why CPS has that power in the first place.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      A good point, although it's worth noting CPS and police are not so statistically anomalous as strangers who kidnap children.
- syntheweave 4y ago
  I believe the real shift was generational: by 1979 it was the cusp of the earliest Boomers who were raising young kids. They weren't like their parents, growing up in post-war life: They were scared of urban pollution and crime, and didn't have a popular collective experience like WWII, but a divisive one(the 60's, in sum) which helped produce a variety of bogeyman narratives of dangerous Vietnam veterans roaming the streets, illegal immigrants selling drugs, Satanic cult leaders and so forth. Part of the embracing of Reagan's America was in overlooking the parts of this narrative that were self-inflicted by prior US actions, and moving blame to scapegoats. Thus, "stranger danger", distrust of the city, and a general self-alienation with society in favor of personal safety was normalized at that time. There were definite benefits to the Boomer outlook at the time: smog was curtailed, health-conscious diet and regular exercise became a popular idea(albeit heavily fad-driven). But it also created a more litigious, low-trust climate, which has only driven in the alienation further. Today's political climate is a sort of crescendo on all those concerns, and I see in the current working-age generations much greater willingness to change the deal.
LorenPechtel 4y ago
You've got it wrong--the actual rate of abuse has gone down considerably, not merely the same as it used to be. You are right that it's being magnified by the news competing for eyeballs. And the greatest risk isn't the stranger, it's people you know and trust. The vast, vast majority of people aren't going to harm a kid--you teach kids that if they need help they should go up to an adult and ask. That reduces the risk much further.
- josiahpeters 4y ago
  Do you have a source for this? I would love to have this in my back pocket for future discussions about this topic.
  - rovolo 4y ago
    I'm not sure about abuse statistics, but these are the U.S. stats for kidnapping: https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2021-ncic-missing-person-and-unidentified-person-statistics.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2021-ncic-missing-person... 2021 missing-person stats: - 94.5% (231k) runaway - 1% (2,555) abducted by non-custodial parent - 0.1% (331) abducted by stranger - 4.3% (10k) adult
Foobar8568 4y ago
I am living in Switzerland, in a rather good 20k town, I get out of my building, I see 2 permanent drug dealers. And there is a constant stream of news about murders or tentative ones. Oh and we have judges who are protecting rapists, e.g. saying they were looking for being raped, yes an actual judges, fuck that shit. Our era is just different.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  Drug dealers are not going to harm your children.

bitlax 4y ago

Certainly not time since many more families are dual income or have only one involved parent. Also the quality of the time matters. Weekend time and after-work time is not equivalent to morning and midday productive time.

moonchrome 4y ago
>Certainly not time since many more families are dual income or have only one involved parent Your time investment is even greater value (to you) since you have less out-of-work time overall.

hilbert42 4y ago

"I feel like the investment into individual children is much much higher than it used to be (time/resources/emotions)." Why, and is this important and or a problem? BTW, I don't claim to have an answer.

licebmi__at__ 4y ago

Just yesterday I was listening my grandmother talking me about her life. He told me about a kid about 7 years old who went to the field with some horses so they could eat, and then he was killed by some other kids who were threw rocks at him. My wife asked if the culprits were punished and my grandma told her that was not the case. She told us that the police didn’t cared much, and the parents were too busy with the rest of the kids to try to pressure the authorities.

alanwreath 4y ago

Not sure if what you’re saying is the norm or if I’m an outlier but I have more than 5 kids and fall into the group that had a relatively relaxed childhood yet restricts activities out of fear (or whatever it should be referred to).