6 ms·

I'm surprised they didn't say "why don't you just use Windows with WSL? We're trying our best to make sure your IT department forbids you from using anything el

by WWLink 4y ago

I'm surprised they didn't say "why don't you just use Windows with WSL? We're trying our best to make sure your IT department forbids you from using anything else anyway"

AshamedCaptain 4y ago
I have already worked at least one software company which developed Linux-only _desktop_ software (i.e. which used some X11 toolkit) while literally using Windows-only development machines, and Office, Outlook, Teams. (This was before WSL).
- ahartmetz 4y ago
  I have worked at a software consulting company that worked (for other companies, mostly) on C++/Qt software that was only made available for Mac and Windows. Most developers were developing on Linux, though.
- neilv 4y ago
  This bizarre mismatch still happens in some companies, post-desktop, and the impact can be worse than everyone merely being less-productive. It can also be a symptom of other organizational dysfunction. For tech companies, especially startups, it's something we should consider before joining: how does the company determine the tools/infrastructure that engineering and production use, and what are the current determinations?
- lrvick 4y ago
  Would have quit on day 1 without question. That is pretty nuts.
Arnavion 4y ago
There's a small but non-trivial number of Microsoft employees who only use Linux.
- j0057 4y ago
  With the InTune/device attestation stuff they will feel the heat to move to Windows as well.
  - josteink 4y ago
    Microsoft has a “secret” Intune Deb for Ubuntu, but I must admit I haven’t tested it. You can see it here: https://ubuntu.pkgs.org/20.04/microsoft-prod-amd64/intune-portal_0.2201.1~mvr2_amd64.deb.html https://ubuntu.pkgs.org/20.04/microsoft-prod-amd64/intune-po...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
linuxlizard 4y ago
I'm quite impressed at how nice WSL is. It's very snappy, great internetworking with the host Windows, and is kept up-to-date. The only thing it's missing, for me, is nl80211 support (I do wifi) and usb-serial. I do a lot of console app dev in WSL regardless.
- mcspiff 4y ago
  Honestly PCI pass through would probably make it perfect for me. Pass through a usb controller or whatever other weird device you need
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  I think it's quite crap actually. If you don't have IPv6 on your network it just makes an address up and then tries to route everything through it because IPv6 has precedence. And of course the sysctl to disable IPv6 doesn't work under WSL. It took me 30 mins just to fix that and that was straight out of the box. I don't know why I'd want all the windows baggage on my Linux laptop.
  - apatheticonion 4y ago
    WSL1 was so much better. WSL2 appears to simply be an effort for Microsoft to showcase Hyper-V and it has all the issues associated with virtualization - despite Microsoft's best attempts at blending the two environments.
    - Karunamon 4y ago
      WSL1 was almost useless on anything that did a lot of file I/O (so, installing or updating packages for a development environment took ages). This was not fixable given how Windows handles the file system and as I understand it this was the main drive to move to WSL2
      - apatheticonion 4y ago
        I think it was only if you were interacting with the Windows host FS, operations within the Linux fs were fine with performance. I would be surprised if there wasn't a solution to that they could have worked towards. Anyway, doesn't WSL2 mount Windows volumes over Samba?
pjc50 4y ago
The Windows Teams client is also crap.
blue_adept 4y ago
Yeah, I teach a class about operating systems. It's supposed to be developer-oriented. I remember the first time we couldn't run VirtualBox. I filed a ticket, and waited, and waited. Finished teaching the class, bumped the ticket. A year later, the class runs again and we still can't get anything done. Department chair and I have a meeting with the IT director, and he pushes to use WSL. I'm like, uh, really? No. By this point I've had to "teach out of the book" so much I'm used to it, COVID has happened so half my class is working from home anyways... I pretty much just work around my IT department any chance I can. I bought a System76 laptop just so I don't have to request software upgrades and installs every other semester.

by WWLink 4y ago

I'm surprised they didn't say "why don't you just use Windows with WSL? We're trying our best to make sure your IT department forbids you from using anything else anyway"

AshamedCaptain 4y ago

I have already worked at least one software company which developed Linux-only _desktop_ software (i.e. which used some X11 toolkit) while literally using Windows-only development machines, and Office, Outlook, Teams. (This was before WSL).

ahartmetz 4y ago
I have worked at a software consulting company that worked (for other companies, mostly) on C++/Qt software that was only made available for Mac and Windows. Most developers were developing on Linux, though.
neilv 4y ago
This bizarre mismatch still happens in some companies, post-desktop, and the impact can be worse than everyone merely being less-productive. It can also be a symptom of other organizational dysfunction. For tech companies, especially startups, it's something we should consider before joining: how does the company determine the tools/infrastructure that engineering and production use, and what are the current determinations?
lrvick 4y ago
Would have quit on day 1 without question. That is pretty nuts.

Arnavion 4y ago

There's a small but non-trivial number of Microsoft employees who only use Linux.

j0057 4y ago
With the InTune/device attestation stuff they will feel the heat to move to Windows as well.
- josteink 4y ago
  Microsoft has a “secret” Intune Deb for Ubuntu, but I must admit I haven’t tested it. You can see it here: https://ubuntu.pkgs.org/20.04/microsoft-prod-amd64/intune-portal_0.2201.1~mvr2_amd64.deb.html https://ubuntu.pkgs.org/20.04/microsoft-prod-amd64/intune-po...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

linuxlizard 4y ago

I'm quite impressed at how nice WSL is. It's very snappy, great internetworking with the host Windows, and is kept up-to-date. The only thing it's missing, for me, is nl80211 support (I do wifi) and usb-serial. I do a lot of console app dev in WSL regardless.

mcspiff 4y ago
Honestly PCI pass through would probably make it perfect for me. Pass through a usb controller or whatever other weird device you need
GekkePrutser 4y ago
I think it's quite crap actually. If you don't have IPv6 on your network it just makes an address up and then tries to route everything through it because IPv6 has precedence. And of course the sysctl to disable IPv6 doesn't work under WSL. It took me 30 mins just to fix that and that was straight out of the box. I don't know why I'd want all the windows baggage on my Linux laptop.
- apatheticonion 4y ago
  WSL1 was so much better. WSL2 appears to simply be an effort for Microsoft to showcase Hyper-V and it has all the issues associated with virtualization - despite Microsoft's best attempts at blending the two environments.
  - Karunamon 4y ago
    WSL1 was almost useless on anything that did a lot of file I/O (so, installing or updating packages for a development environment took ages). This was not fixable given how Windows handles the file system and as I understand it this was the main drive to move to WSL2
    - apatheticonion 4y ago
      I think it was only if you were interacting with the Windows host FS, operations within the Linux fs were fine with performance. I would be surprised if there wasn't a solution to that they could have worked towards. Anyway, doesn't WSL2 mount Windows volumes over Samba?

pjc50 4y ago

The Windows Teams client is also crap.

blue_adept 4y ago

Yeah, I teach a class about operating systems. It's supposed to be developer-oriented. I remember the first time we couldn't run VirtualBox. I filed a ticket, and waited, and waited. Finished teaching the class, bumped the ticket. A year later, the class runs again and we still can't get anything done. Department chair and I have a meeting with the IT director, and he pushes to use WSL. I'm like, uh, really? No. By this point I've had to "teach out of the book" so much I'm used to it, COVID has happened so half my class is working from home anyways... I pretty much just work around my IT department any chance I can. I bought a System76 laptop just so I don't have to request software upgrades and installs every other semester.