3 ms·

> If the US can put 40% of its working populace into some lower-rights having class, like strip their citizenship, we would have a comparable public housing tax

> If the US can put 40% of its working populace into some lower-rights having class, like strip their citizenship, we would have a comparable public housing tax base. The US is already working on this, albeit unintentionally. Undocumented immigrants were at 3.3% of the population in 2016 and the numbers have absolutely exploded since the beginning of the Biden administration, with 2 million apprehensions so far for in 2022 [0]. The cumulative effect of this over just a single term of the Biden administration will completely reshape the demographics of most of the border states (and most major cities of the country), as the majority of immigrants are arriving with very little means, extremely limited ability to speak English, and will be mostly restricted from accessing the US financial system without legal residence status, hobbling them financially and forcing them into informal work arrangements. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/illegal-immigration-arrests-hit-record-reasons-for-border-crossings-changing-11660599304 https://www.wsj.com/articles/illegal-immigration-arrests-hit...

lovich 4y ago
A record number of arrests can mean there is a record number of immigrants but does not guarantee that is the cause. Increased enforcement of the border would also lead to higher arrests and subsequently reduce the inflow of immigration
- speakfreely 4y ago
  The current administration has gone back and forth on this. Initially the policy was to be as "Un-Trumpy" as possible on border policy, but that had the predictable effect of encouraging more illegal immigration simply by changing the narrative in the source countries. Now they've quietly restarted a fair amount of border wall construction but their options for solving it logistically are very limited, as the only way to address the massive influx is to rapidly scale the personnel on the border which can't be done overnight (unless the National Guard is used, which would be completely rejected by the liberal base). If you're interested in unfiltered perspectives, I would encourage you to focus on articles that specifically quote active Border Patrol agents who are working on the border. It's quite different than anything you hear from Washington DC.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    I have spoken extensively with Border Patrol agents. While they were faking dog alerts, detaining me for 16+ hours, strip searching me, writing obscenely vulgur and false statements about the intimate parts of my body, and sharing it with judges and even the united states assistant attorney, cuffing and shackling me and driving me to multiple hospitals across my state for "internal examination" while doctors refused to respect my declining of consent, even though (for the first 12 hours) they had no warrant or legal mechanism to perform "medical care." While they were tossing me in jail cells, full of people I can't speak to, without being charged with any crime. While they made me perform my bodily functions in front of them, and they searched through the effects found thereafter. While they were fingerprinting / booking me without even being accused of a crime, nor arrested (which is normally only reserved for non-citizens). They degraded me in almost every way possible, except penetrating me, and one other lady who they dragged to the same hospital as me wasn't even that lucky. Fuck em. Oh yes, I'm a US citizen (who looks white, middle class, speaks fluent hick english, normal), with an unquestionably valid passport who has never broken any border related law, and they never found anything. I would rather 100 illegals get through than any other single person be treated the way I have by border patrol. Border Patrol is a criminal organization, depriving rights under color of law and should be prosecuted under the RICO act.
notch656a 4y ago
Undocumented immigrants tend to be an overall good for the citizen economy since we can exploit them, charge them sales tax etc, and then not offer them public services in return. Hopefully the cheap construction labor will improve the housing situation in the US.
- rootos 4y ago
  Undocumented immigrants have the same access to public services such as public education, medical care at hospitals, access to court systems, police, fire, etc.
  - lovich 4y ago
    Undocumented immigrants have access to the court system and police that will arrest them the moment they are found to be undocumented? Even if they ostensibly could use it they would avoid taking the risk
    - speakfreely 4y ago
      This point is about 20 years out of date and is no longer true in most of the country. Most local police, aside from border states, will not inquire about immigration status when dealing with the general population and many larger cities actually refuse to cooperate with ICE immigration detainers on inmates in their local jails for non-violent offenders.
      - lovich 4y ago
        And yet ICE hangs around those locations and even goes as far as to deport people they had a court order to not deport. That chilling effect would make undocumented immigrants avoid authorities unless you believe they are irrational. I hate to be that guy but do you have a source on undocumented immigrants availing themselves of the legal system en masse in the US?
stjohnswarts 4y ago
MAGAs are blaming this on Biden rather than on deteriorating political situations all through Mexico, Central, and South America lol. It's a lot easier to blame the president tho.
- speakfreely 4y ago
  Not a MAGA so I can't speak for them, but the "root causes" angle is really just a dead end talking point to deflect and allow inaction on this issue. As long as salaries in the US are double, triple, or more than people can make in their home countries, there will always be more economic migrants than the US system can accommodate. It's a very simple case of supply and demand. No "root causes" strategy is going to change anything about the situation facing destitute, rural laborers in the Northern Triangle countries in the next 5-10 years. It will always make economic sense for them to attempt to immigrate to the US. The only thing that will stop them is a significant deterrence policy from the US government.
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    Your logic doesn't hold any water. The pay gap has existed for decades. The reason they're coming now is because their countries are falling apart and they have no stability at all in their lives. That is what has been getting worse for them. Money is great but food, shelter, and safety are far more important, even to the most extreme capitalists.

lovich 4y ago

A record number of arrests can mean there is a record number of immigrants but does not guarantee that is the cause. Increased enforcement of the border would also lead to higher arrests and subsequently reduce the inflow of immigration

speakfreely 4y ago
The current administration has gone back and forth on this. Initially the policy was to be as "Un-Trumpy" as possible on border policy, but that had the predictable effect of encouraging more illegal immigration simply by changing the narrative in the source countries. Now they've quietly restarted a fair amount of border wall construction but their options for solving it logistically are very limited, as the only way to address the massive influx is to rapidly scale the personnel on the border which can't be done overnight (unless the National Guard is used, which would be completely rejected by the liberal base). If you're interested in unfiltered perspectives, I would encourage you to focus on articles that specifically quote active Border Patrol agents who are working on the border. It's quite different than anything you hear from Washington DC.
- notch656a 4y ago
  I have spoken extensively with Border Patrol agents. While they were faking dog alerts, detaining me for 16+ hours, strip searching me, writing obscenely vulgur and false statements about the intimate parts of my body, and sharing it with judges and even the united states assistant attorney, cuffing and shackling me and driving me to multiple hospitals across my state for "internal examination" while doctors refused to respect my declining of consent, even though (for the first 12 hours) they had no warrant or legal mechanism to perform "medical care." While they were tossing me in jail cells, full of people I can't speak to, without being charged with any crime. While they made me perform my bodily functions in front of them, and they searched through the effects found thereafter. While they were fingerprinting / booking me without even being accused of a crime, nor arrested (which is normally only reserved for non-citizens). They degraded me in almost every way possible, except penetrating me, and one other lady who they dragged to the same hospital as me wasn't even that lucky. Fuck em. Oh yes, I'm a US citizen (who looks white, middle class, speaks fluent hick english, normal), with an unquestionably valid passport who has never broken any border related law, and they never found anything. I would rather 100 illegals get through than any other single person be treated the way I have by border patrol. Border Patrol is a criminal organization, depriving rights under color of law and should be prosecuted under the RICO act.

notch656a 4y ago

Undocumented immigrants tend to be an overall good for the citizen economy since we can exploit them, charge them sales tax etc, and then not offer them public services in return. Hopefully the cheap construction labor will improve the housing situation in the US.

rootos 4y ago
Undocumented immigrants have the same access to public services such as public education, medical care at hospitals, access to court systems, police, fire, etc.
- lovich 4y ago
  Undocumented immigrants have access to the court system and police that will arrest them the moment they are found to be undocumented? Even if they ostensibly could use it they would avoid taking the risk
  - speakfreely 4y ago
    This point is about 20 years out of date and is no longer true in most of the country. Most local police, aside from border states, will not inquire about immigration status when dealing with the general population and many larger cities actually refuse to cooperate with ICE immigration detainers on inmates in their local jails for non-violent offenders.
    - lovich 4y ago
      And yet ICE hangs around those locations and even goes as far as to deport people they had a court order to not deport. That chilling effect would make undocumented immigrants avoid authorities unless you believe they are irrational. I hate to be that guy but do you have a source on undocumented immigrants availing themselves of the legal system en masse in the US?

stjohnswarts 4y ago

MAGAs are blaming this on Biden rather than on deteriorating political situations all through Mexico, Central, and South America lol. It's a lot easier to blame the president tho.

speakfreely 4y ago
Not a MAGA so I can't speak for them, but the "root causes" angle is really just a dead end talking point to deflect and allow inaction on this issue. As long as salaries in the US are double, triple, or more than people can make in their home countries, there will always be more economic migrants than the US system can accommodate. It's a very simple case of supply and demand. No "root causes" strategy is going to change anything about the situation facing destitute, rural laborers in the Northern Triangle countries in the next 5-10 years. It will always make economic sense for them to attempt to immigrate to the US. The only thing that will stop them is a significant deterrence policy from the US government.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  Your logic doesn't hold any water. The pay gap has existed for decades. The reason they're coming now is because their countries are falling apart and they have no stability at all in their lives. That is what has been getting worse for them. Money is great but food, shelter, and safety are far more important, even to the most extreme capitalists.