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We've been talking for over 8 years about it in the web developer community. But it's a pipe dream. We haven't been able to convince the consumer that a websit

We've been talking for over 8 years about it in the web developer community. But it's a pipe dream. We haven't been able to convince the consumer that a website and app are not so different. I've been setting up Saas tool for fitness apps and its such a pain to deal with the app stores, the reviews, updates, commissions and lack of control. It would be great if Google could direct their marketing budget to the consumers, not the devs :)

samwillis 4y ago
> We haven't been able to convince the consumer that a website and app are not so different. So don't! just build a PWA as your web front-end and package it as an app for the stores to distribute it (see PWABuilder - https://www.pwabuilder.com https://www.pwabuilder.com or Capacitor - https://capacitorjs.com https://capacitorjs.com). You get the best of both worlds, unified simple development and the App Store distribution model.
- WA 4y ago
  Capacitor doesn’t free you from things OP mentioned: App Store updated, marketing material like screenshots, descriptions, App reviews by Apple, ratings, etc.
tkahnoski 4y ago
Couldn't agree more.... I can imagine the Apple keynote version of this. "Cross-platform apps have never been easier. All the features customers love from native now on the web... We call it iApps."
- hulitu 4y ago
  > All the features customers love from native now on the web They tried. They dumbed down native programs to look more and more like web apps. The only success was Teams. /s
- osrec 4y ago
  And all Apple users will claim it to be the best thing since sliced bread: "it's amazing - you don't need to install anything - just go on the website and the app is ready to go, while being perfectly sandboxed within the confines of your browser".
  - 411111111111111 4y ago
    Tbf, apple did basically come up with it. Then they allowed third party apps on their app store and realized how easily they could be monitized... Just watch the original announcements for the iphone and the jobs interviews from that time period.
    - osrec 4y ago
      Yeah, I'm aware - wrote an article about this very thing a few years ago. But they also u-turned pretty spectacularly and halted the progress of PWAs for a long time, and still continue to do so. Their supporters claim security/privacy is the main reason, but to me it's fairly clear that they're just protecting their app store revenue.
- cronix 4y ago
  Kind of close. Here was the relevant portion of the actual iPhone announcement by Steve Jobs saying all you needed to write great native apps for iPhone was ajax and web 2.0. There was no mention of "app store" in the speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1nwLilQy64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1nwLilQy64
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Isn't that the selling point for this? https://www.icloud.com/ https://www.icloud.com/
yanis_t 4y ago
As someone who drastically decreased complexity in my SaaS by moving from native android / ios apps to PWA, I highly disagree. For me the change was beneficial and customers happy because it removed the feature delay between web and apps. So yes, there's a long way to go, but it still feels like a right direction.
pjmlp 4y ago
In 2018 I transitioned to an agency focused on the Web as main delivery platform, after a couple of years doing native frontends. Just deliver mobile Web sites, the PWA part is an optimization.
- freedomben 4y ago
  Yes, exactly! After years of screwing around with app store reviews, bug fixes that were made 10 minutes after discovery but take a week to deploy, and constant anxiety/fear that the elephant would take some step that crushes the ant, we took the approach of just building a mobile web site, and it is absolutely the way to go. Even just ability for people at the company to test drive the app in a browser on whatever desktop/laptop/tablet/phone/etc that they have is a huge win.
  - depressedpanda 4y ago
    Set up an ngrok or localtunnel and they can see updates you make for the app live. During lockdown I worked with our UX designer like that, hashing out some UI details.
Aulig 4y ago
You're correct, the end users are the ones who want a "real app". One of the most successful websites that I turned into an app [0] had users constantly asking the owner for an app. There was already a PWA and guide on how to add it to your homescreen available. But now that I created an app that displays the website for the client, the end users are overjoyed and love it. To be fair, I add a couple native elements that improve the UX and add push notification support. But still, in essence it's just the website repackaged. [0] I founded https://webtoapp.design https://webtoapp.design
systemvoltage 4y ago
The most underrated thing about websites vs. apps is that websites have a URL. URL is almost invisible thing since we just take it as granted. Phone apps afford no such visibility into where you are in the app as well as sharing the state with someone.

samwillis 4y ago

> We haven't been able to convince the consumer that a website and app are not so different. So don't! just build a PWA as your web front-end and package it as an app for the stores to distribute it (see PWABuilder - https://www.pwabuilder.com https://www.pwabuilder.com or Capacitor - https://capacitorjs.com https://capacitorjs.com). You get the best of both worlds, unified simple development and the App Store distribution model.

WA 4y ago
Capacitor doesn’t free you from things OP mentioned: App Store updated, marketing material like screenshots, descriptions, App reviews by Apple, ratings, etc.

tkahnoski 4y ago

Couldn't agree more.... I can imagine the Apple keynote version of this. "Cross-platform apps have never been easier. All the features customers love from native now on the web... We call it iApps."

hulitu 4y ago
> All the features customers love from native now on the web They tried. They dumbed down native programs to look more and more like web apps. The only success was Teams. /s
osrec 4y ago
And all Apple users will claim it to be the best thing since sliced bread: "it's amazing - you don't need to install anything - just go on the website and the app is ready to go, while being perfectly sandboxed within the confines of your browser".
- 411111111111111 4y ago
  Tbf, apple did basically come up with it. Then they allowed third party apps on their app store and realized how easily they could be monitized... Just watch the original announcements for the iphone and the jobs interviews from that time period.
  - osrec 4y ago
    Yeah, I'm aware - wrote an article about this very thing a few years ago. But they also u-turned pretty spectacularly and halted the progress of PWAs for a long time, and still continue to do so. Their supporters claim security/privacy is the main reason, but to me it's fairly clear that they're just protecting their app store revenue.
cronix 4y ago
Kind of close. Here was the relevant portion of the actual iPhone announcement by Steve Jobs saying all you needed to write great native apps for iPhone was ajax and web 2.0. There was no mention of "app store" in the speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1nwLilQy64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1nwLilQy64
smoldesu 4y ago
Isn't that the selling point for this? https://www.icloud.com/ https://www.icloud.com/

yanis_t 4y ago

As someone who drastically decreased complexity in my SaaS by moving from native android / ios apps to PWA, I highly disagree. For me the change was beneficial and customers happy because it removed the feature delay between web and apps. So yes, there's a long way to go, but it still feels like a right direction.

pjmlp 4y ago

In 2018 I transitioned to an agency focused on the Web as main delivery platform, after a couple of years doing native frontends. Just deliver mobile Web sites, the PWA part is an optimization.

freedomben 4y ago
Yes, exactly! After years of screwing around with app store reviews, bug fixes that were made 10 minutes after discovery but take a week to deploy, and constant anxiety/fear that the elephant would take some step that crushes the ant, we took the approach of just building a mobile web site, and it is absolutely the way to go. Even just ability for people at the company to test drive the app in a browser on whatever desktop/laptop/tablet/phone/etc that they have is a huge win.
- depressedpanda 4y ago
  Set up an ngrok or localtunnel and they can see updates you make for the app live. During lockdown I worked with our UX designer like that, hashing out some UI details.

Aulig 4y ago

You're correct, the end users are the ones who want a "real app". One of the most successful websites that I turned into an app [0] had users constantly asking the owner for an app. There was already a PWA and guide on how to add it to your homescreen available. But now that I created an app that displays the website for the client, the end users are overjoyed and love it. To be fair, I add a couple native elements that improve the UX and add push notification support. But still, in essence it's just the website repackaged. [0] I founded https://webtoapp.design https://webtoapp.design

systemvoltage 4y ago

The most underrated thing about websites vs. apps is that websites have a URL. URL is almost invisible thing since we just take it as granted. Phone apps afford no such visibility into where you are in the app as well as sharing the state with someone.