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> They're attacking infrastructure due to political motives. They're attacking KiwiFarms for their agenda of trying to drive people to commit suicide.

patmcc 4y ago
True. Let's say KiwiFarms was entirely hosted/located in a shed in the middle of nowhere. Someone walks up to it and sets it on fire. Should the local fire department put it out? Assume it's not going to spread to other buildings/etc.
- pseudalopex 4y ago
  Is Cloudflare a government service? Do local fire departments remove copyright infringers' sheds?
  - tomrod 4y ago
    It's a platform of services like a government service is typically provisioned. While not a democratically elected government, they use governance all the same.
    - pseudalopex 4y ago
      > It's a platform of services like a government service is typically provisioned. It's a monopoly funded by taxes obligated to serve everyone? > While not a democratically elected government, they use governance all the same. This is meaningless.
      - tomrod 4y ago
        I can see you're not interested in discussion at this time. No worries, we all have those days. I did not say it was a government service, I said a platform functions a lot like a government service, especially when multihoming is limited due to switching costs.
        pseudalopex 4y ago
        > I did not say it was a government service, I said a platform functions a lot like a government service, especially when multihoming is limited due to switching costs. You said it was like a government service is typically provisioned. And the costs of switching governments dwarf the costs of switching online services. > I can see you're not interested in discussion at this time. No worries, we all have those days. The same to you.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    First of, not all fire departments are government services. Sometimes they are private associations of volunteers that receive marginal if any taxpayer support. Other times, they are for-profit corporations. This is particularly true when another company needs specialized firefighting services because they are remote or handle materials and situations the local government-supported firefighters aren't equipped to handle. > Let's say KiwiFarms was entirely hosted/located in a shed in the middle of nowhere. A shed in the middle of nowhere, so let us suppose the nearest government supported fire department is a two hour drive away, and so KF hires a private for-profit firefighting company. With that modification to patmcc's comment, what is your response now?
    - pseudalopex 4y ago
      Cloudflare is not a private association of volunteers. Private fire fighting services are not called fire departments commonly, are plural, and are not local frequently. My response is still the analogy is bad. We can understand the situation better without trying to imagine what fire would be like if it didn't spread.
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago
        I did not compare cloudflare to a private association of volunteers. I am suggesting they are comparable to a private for-profit firefighting company. Can you respond to this? If KF farms hires a private for-profit firefighting company, and then political activists commit arson against KF, should the private for-profit firefighting company put out the fire? Or does your political ideology oblige firefighters to side with arsonists?
        pseudalopex 4y ago
        > I did not compare cloudflare to a private association of volunteers. The point was your lecture on fire fighting services was irrelevant to the context. > I am suggesting they are comparable to a private for-profit firefighting company. Can you respond to this? If KF farms hires a private for-profit firefighting company, and then political activists commit arson against KF, should the private for-profit firefighting company put out the fire? I did respond. I said the analogy had negative value. Continuing to mutate the analogy is just more evidence of it. > Or does your political ideology oblige firefighters to side with arsonists? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
throwawayacc2 4y ago
- sealeck 4y ago
  > Do you believe investigative journalism has a place in our society? Yes and KiwiFarms is not investigative journalism - they're harrassing and doxxing private individuals with clearly personal malicious intent. The key part of investigative journalism is the "investigative", which there is no evidence of on KiwiFarm's part. No attempts to hold power to account, to expose serious breaches of power - just a horrid, all-consuming hatred and failure to respect other people's right to exist. For _actual_ investigative journalism, see https://www.icij.org/ https://www.icij.org/
  - EdiX 4y ago
    Do you think CNN should be driven off the internet? Back in 2017 they threatened and harassed an anonymous reddit user into apologizing for making a harmless gif [1]. How is CNN better than kiwifarms? [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politics/kfile-reddit-user-trump-tweet/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politics/kfile-reddit-use...
    - sophacles 4y ago
- sophacles 4y ago
  - dfsadfas 4y ago
    - sophacles 4y ago
      Imagine thinking this drivel somehow applied to this thread. You shouldn't make new accounts for this sort of thing you know - cowards who hide from perfectly legal doxxing and "investigative journalism" in defense of such "harmless" actions come across as sus. Why should you be ashamed of your opinion - you are entitled to free speech right?
throwrqX 4y ago
Some users of KiwiFarms may have the agenda of wanting to drive people to commit suicide, you seem to be accusing the website as a whole of a) having an agenda and b) that agenda being to drive people to kill themselves What evidence is there for this? I haven't kept up with the website recently, is Null telling people to harass people to death?
- FrecklySunbeam 4y ago
  Official statement from KF on Aug 26th: > What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where fat eunuchs can groom little boys into castrating themselves and nobody is allowed to say anything about it. Wow very neutral site with no agenda here
  - bakugo 4y ago
    - QuinnWilton 4y ago
      It's difficult to take comments like this in good faith when the Github profile linked on your account prominently features your signature on a letter calling for Richard Stallman to be reinstated to the FSF after his resignation, following his comments defending sex with minors and child pornography.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - bakugo 4y ago
        Knowing that my comment had such an impact on you that you went through my profile AND posted a screenshot of it to twitter made me smile :) I'd leave a comment about your own profiles but I think they speak for themselves...
  - squabbles 4y ago
dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
Those two statements are not in contradiction though. If KiwiFarms is trying to get people to commit suicide in a willful way that breaks the law, surely they can be brought before the law. If you are attempting to DDoS the infrastructure of somebody because you disagree with them, you are committing an illegal act too. Perhaps terrorism is a bit far, but what gives the people who commit the DDoS the right to do so? No society should allow people to be punished without a due process. I also can't go shoot up suspected criminals, that's called vigilantism and is criminal. Even if I knew they did it.
canistista 4y ago
users aren't the hosts
psyc 4y ago

patmcc 4y ago

True. Let's say KiwiFarms was entirely hosted/located in a shed in the middle of nowhere. Someone walks up to it and sets it on fire. Should the local fire department put it out? Assume it's not going to spread to other buildings/etc.

pseudalopex 4y ago
Is Cloudflare a government service? Do local fire departments remove copyright infringers' sheds?
- tomrod 4y ago
  It's a platform of services like a government service is typically provisioned. While not a democratically elected government, they use governance all the same.
  - pseudalopex 4y ago
    > It's a platform of services like a government service is typically provisioned. It's a monopoly funded by taxes obligated to serve everyone? > While not a democratically elected government, they use governance all the same. This is meaningless.
    - tomrod 4y ago
      I can see you're not interested in discussion at this time. No worries, we all have those days. I did not say it was a government service, I said a platform functions a lot like a government service, especially when multihoming is limited due to switching costs.
      - pseudalopex 4y ago
        > I did not say it was a government service, I said a platform functions a lot like a government service, especially when multihoming is limited due to switching costs. You said it was like a government service is typically provisioned. And the costs of switching governments dwarf the costs of switching online services. > I can see you're not interested in discussion at this time. No worries, we all have those days. The same to you.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  First of, not all fire departments are government services. Sometimes they are private associations of volunteers that receive marginal if any taxpayer support. Other times, they are for-profit corporations. This is particularly true when another company needs specialized firefighting services because they are remote or handle materials and situations the local government-supported firefighters aren't equipped to handle. > Let's say KiwiFarms was entirely hosted/located in a shed in the middle of nowhere. A shed in the middle of nowhere, so let us suppose the nearest government supported fire department is a two hour drive away, and so KF hires a private for-profit firefighting company. With that modification to patmcc's comment, what is your response now?
  - pseudalopex 4y ago
    Cloudflare is not a private association of volunteers. Private fire fighting services are not called fire departments commonly, are plural, and are not local frequently. My response is still the analogy is bad. We can understand the situation better without trying to imagine what fire would be like if it didn't spread.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      I did not compare cloudflare to a private association of volunteers. I am suggesting they are comparable to a private for-profit firefighting company. Can you respond to this? If KF farms hires a private for-profit firefighting company, and then political activists commit arson against KF, should the private for-profit firefighting company put out the fire? Or does your political ideology oblige firefighters to side with arsonists?
      - pseudalopex 4y ago
        > I did not compare cloudflare to a private association of volunteers. The point was your lecture on fire fighting services was irrelevant to the context. > I am suggesting they are comparable to a private for-profit firefighting company. Can you respond to this? If KF farms hires a private for-profit firefighting company, and then political activists commit arson against KF, should the private for-profit firefighting company put out the fire? I did respond. I said the analogy had negative value. Continuing to mutate the analogy is just more evidence of it. > Or does your political ideology oblige firefighters to side with arsonists? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

throwawayacc2 4y ago

sealeck 4y ago
> Do you believe investigative journalism has a place in our society? Yes and KiwiFarms is not investigative journalism - they're harrassing and doxxing private individuals with clearly personal malicious intent. The key part of investigative journalism is the "investigative", which there is no evidence of on KiwiFarm's part. No attempts to hold power to account, to expose serious breaches of power - just a horrid, all-consuming hatred and failure to respect other people's right to exist. For _actual_ investigative journalism, see https://www.icij.org/ https://www.icij.org/
- EdiX 4y ago
  Do you think CNN should be driven off the internet? Back in 2017 they threatened and harassed an anonymous reddit user into apologizing for making a harmless gif [1]. How is CNN better than kiwifarms? [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politics/kfile-reddit-user-trump-tweet/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politics/kfile-reddit-use...
  - sophacles 4y ago
sophacles 4y ago
- dfsadfas 4y ago
  - sophacles 4y ago
    Imagine thinking this drivel somehow applied to this thread. You shouldn't make new accounts for this sort of thing you know - cowards who hide from perfectly legal doxxing and "investigative journalism" in defense of such "harmless" actions come across as sus. Why should you be ashamed of your opinion - you are entitled to free speech right?

throwrqX 4y ago

Some users of KiwiFarms may have the agenda of wanting to drive people to commit suicide, you seem to be accusing the website as a whole of a) having an agenda and b) that agenda being to drive people to kill themselves What evidence is there for this? I haven't kept up with the website recently, is Null telling people to harass people to death?

FrecklySunbeam 4y ago
Official statement from KF on Aug 26th: > What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where fat eunuchs can groom little boys into castrating themselves and nobody is allowed to say anything about it. Wow very neutral site with no agenda here
- bakugo 4y ago
  - QuinnWilton 4y ago
    It's difficult to take comments like this in good faith when the Github profile linked on your account prominently features your signature on a letter calling for Richard Stallman to be reinstated to the FSF after his resignation, following his comments defending sex with minors and child pornography.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - bakugo 4y ago
      Knowing that my comment had such an impact on you that you went through my profile AND posted a screenshot of it to twitter made me smile :) I'd leave a comment about your own profiles but I think they speak for themselves...
- squabbles 4y ago

dj_mc_merlin 4y ago

Those two statements are not in contradiction though. If KiwiFarms is trying to get people to commit suicide in a willful way that breaks the law, surely they can be brought before the law. If you are attempting to DDoS the infrastructure of somebody because you disagree with them, you are committing an illegal act too. Perhaps terrorism is a bit far, but what gives the people who commit the DDoS the right to do so? No society should allow people to be punished without a due process. I also can't go shoot up suspected criminals, that's called vigilantism and is criminal. Even if I knew they did it.

canistista 4y ago

users aren't the hosts

psyc 4y ago