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This is what happens when you build software on another company's platform. Why put your time making plugins for VS Code when rug can be pulled from under any t

This is what happens when you build software on another company's platform. Why put your time making plugins for VS Code when rug can be pulled from under any time?

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
The same could be said about many other platforms: Apps for iPhones and android, chrome and Firefox extensions. Yet people still write them, and some get screwed when their app or extension is removed or doesn’t evolve to the next API change.
- forgotmypw17 4y ago
  I have grown to appreciate HTML and the Web for this reason. If done carefully, one can write an application which is accessible to dozens of different client software and hardware options, and no one vendor can screw you over.
  - cowtools 4y ago
    Generally true, unless that vendor is google. Manifest v3 is still in recent memory.
    - forgotmypw17 4y ago
      Yeah, it sucks what's happening with browser extensions and configurability in general. Opera 3, released in 1997, allows the user to override author styles with their own. Same for IE6, released in 2001. But that's a different aspect of the platform -- the browser itself. At least for the time being, on the Web side, there are so many different other browsers, that Chrome cannot break step with all of them at once. And so if I write basic HTML and test it thoroughly, I can accommodate almost any user on any device, browser, and configuration. And this makes me very happy.
      - chii 4y ago
        > there are so many different other browsers, that Chrome cannot break step with all of them at once. i dont think this is true any more - chrome has such a high market share that they can basically dictate the standards, and force other browser vendors to follow suit.
        forgotmypw17 4y ago
        They can do it for new things, but not for traditional HTML. A p tag is a p tag, and a table is a table. The trick is to use only things that everyone already supports, and enhance on top of them. I personally use test with over 50 different browsers, most of which are quite usable. The web is now big enough that I can build my own little nooks and use the sites I like while avoiding others. It's so freeing to realize that anytime a site gives me a newsletter modal, or an ad, or a cookie consent, I can just close it and move on.
noduerme 4y ago
True but the alternative is rolling and maintaining every aspect of your environment yourself. Build environments in particular. If you even have that kind of time, you have to weigh it against shipping a product.
bsder 4y ago
> Why put your time making plugins for VS Code when rug can be pulled from under any time? Because VSCode is a huge step forward for the vast majority of people. For example, it took the might of Microsoft to force everybody onto a Language Server Protocol which is how things should have been done everywhere but nobody wanted to work together to implement it until they were forced to by VSCode eating their market share. As a further example, VSCode is sweeping aside a whole bunch of absolutely garbage embedded programming environments, and I assure you nobody is crying any tears for them. Furthermore, if you make your own plugin and distribute it, Microsoft can't pull the rug out from under your plugin. The core of VSCode is open source. Unfortunately, the most popular plugins are proprietary and Microsoft can and will rip the rug out from under people at some point. However, the problem is that nobody is throwing the resources behind the open source plugins that Microsoft is throwing behind the proprietary ones. While I find the current situation distasteful, I also see it as "Pony money up or shut the hell up." Sadly, the world of open source seems to be populated by a bunch of cheapass whiners. So, yeah, Microsoft gonna pwn.
- delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
  > As a further example, VSCode is sweeping aside a whole bunch of absolutely garbage embedded programming environments, and I assure you nobody is crying any tears for them. Quick point about embedded: in my short summer internship where I was working on some STM32 hardware, I was quickly exposed to the plethora of semi-proprietary embedded IDEs which were themselves based on FOSS IDEs and editors (STM32CubeIDE, MBED Studio, etc). Why do these even exist? It boggles the mind. These companies (NXP, STM, Infineon, TI, Nordic, MBED, etc) spend money on maintaining all this software and paying their own developers/contracting this IDE development work out. In the end, they're just glorified Makefile + C/C++ linters and editors. On the other hand, I had a particularly pleasant time writing embedded and remote C++ with CLion (it's still proprietary, but it's really good). I was writing a client C++ application running on the Raspberry Pi (cross-compiled, and remotely debugged) to communicate with an STM32 (also cross-compiled, and debugged with a probe). The debugging experience was glorious. One breakpoint in the client triggered another in the STM32, and everything was just completely seamless.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

This is what happens when you build software on another company's platform. Why put your time making plugins for VS Code when rug can be pulled from under any time?

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago

The same could be said about many other platforms: Apps for iPhones and android, chrome and Firefox extensions. Yet people still write them, and some get screwed when their app or extension is removed or doesn’t evolve to the next API change.

forgotmypw17 4y ago
I have grown to appreciate HTML and the Web for this reason. If done carefully, one can write an application which is accessible to dozens of different client software and hardware options, and no one vendor can screw you over.
- cowtools 4y ago
  Generally true, unless that vendor is google. Manifest v3 is still in recent memory.
  - forgotmypw17 4y ago
    Yeah, it sucks what's happening with browser extensions and configurability in general. Opera 3, released in 1997, allows the user to override author styles with their own. Same for IE6, released in 2001. But that's a different aspect of the platform -- the browser itself. At least for the time being, on the Web side, there are so many different other browsers, that Chrome cannot break step with all of them at once. And so if I write basic HTML and test it thoroughly, I can accommodate almost any user on any device, browser, and configuration. And this makes me very happy.
    - chii 4y ago
      > there are so many different other browsers, that Chrome cannot break step with all of them at once. i dont think this is true any more - chrome has such a high market share that they can basically dictate the standards, and force other browser vendors to follow suit.
      - forgotmypw17 4y ago
        They can do it for new things, but not for traditional HTML. A p tag is a p tag, and a table is a table. The trick is to use only things that everyone already supports, and enhance on top of them. I personally use test with over 50 different browsers, most of which are quite usable. The web is now big enough that I can build my own little nooks and use the sites I like while avoiding others. It's so freeing to realize that anytime a site gives me a newsletter modal, or an ad, or a cookie consent, I can just close it and move on.

noduerme 4y ago

True but the alternative is rolling and maintaining every aspect of your environment yourself. Build environments in particular. If you even have that kind of time, you have to weigh it against shipping a product.

bsder 4y ago

> Why put your time making plugins for VS Code when rug can be pulled from under any time? Because VSCode is a huge step forward for the vast majority of people. For example, it took the might of Microsoft to force everybody onto a Language Server Protocol which is how things should have been done everywhere but nobody wanted to work together to implement it until they were forced to by VSCode eating their market share. As a further example, VSCode is sweeping aside a whole bunch of absolutely garbage embedded programming environments, and I assure you nobody is crying any tears for them. Furthermore, if you make your own plugin and distribute it, Microsoft can't pull the rug out from under your plugin. The core of VSCode is open source. Unfortunately, the most popular plugins are proprietary and Microsoft can and will rip the rug out from under people at some point. However, the problem is that nobody is throwing the resources behind the open source plugins that Microsoft is throwing behind the proprietary ones. While I find the current situation distasteful, I also see it as "Pony money up or shut the hell up." Sadly, the world of open source seems to be populated by a bunch of cheapass whiners. So, yeah, Microsoft gonna pwn.

delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
> As a further example, VSCode is sweeping aside a whole bunch of absolutely garbage embedded programming environments, and I assure you nobody is crying any tears for them. Quick point about embedded: in my short summer internship where I was working on some STM32 hardware, I was quickly exposed to the plethora of semi-proprietary embedded IDEs which were themselves based on FOSS IDEs and editors (STM32CubeIDE, MBED Studio, etc). Why do these even exist? It boggles the mind. These companies (NXP, STM, Infineon, TI, Nordic, MBED, etc) spend money on maintaining all this software and paying their own developers/contracting this IDE development work out. In the end, they're just glorified Makefile + C/C++ linters and editors. On the other hand, I had a particularly pleasant time writing embedded and remote C++ with CLion (it's still proprietary, but it's really good). I was writing a client C++ application running on the Raspberry Pi (cross-compiled, and remotely debugged) to communicate with an STM32 (also cross-compiled, and debugged with a probe). The debugging experience was glorious. One breakpoint in the client triggered another in the STM32, and everything was just completely seamless.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]