5 ms·

Even Cambodia has instant bank transfers already figured out. I can basically walk around with just my keys and phone and pay for anything I need from groceries

Even Cambodia has instant bank transfers already figured out. I can basically walk around with just my keys and phone and pay for anything I need from groceries to taxis to bar tabs to school fees. Even the local market sellers use it.

nXqd 4y ago
powered by Chinese technology for sure
- loxias 4y ago
  Doubtful, considering "Chinese" technology is often American technology + state-sponsored espionage. Plus, I think the Buy American Act had the IT waver removed, no?
tootie 4y ago
It's not actually a technical challenge, more of a regulatory one. Small countries can achieve fast transactions by not having any compliance rules.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- MBCook 4y ago
  Or just having far fewer banks that need to be involved, instead of the roughly 5k we have in the US.
  - eru 4y ago
    The US has so many banks thanks to some earlier misguided regulation: In large parts of the US, it used to be illegal for banks to have branches. As you can guess, keeping your banks confined to one office in one city is a recipe for them being vulnerable to the fortunes of a single small area. In contrast, their neighbour to the north, Canada, had a much more stable banking system, that was run by large national chains (just like in most other parts of the developed world). If you want to learn more, George Selgin has written a lot on the topic. Other keywords to look for are 'unit banking' vs 'branch banking'.
    - rkagerer 4y ago
      I'm from Canada. Our banking system is stable, but expensive and not very competitive.
      - eru 4y ago
        I'm mostly familiar with more historic periods. See https://www.alt-m.org/2015/07/29/there-was-no-place-like-canada/ https://www.alt-m.org/2015/07/29/there-was-no-place-like-can... for some background that you might find interesting.
- loxias 4y ago
  I think a robust transaction processing system, which can scale and handle as many transactions as you can imagine, complying with regulations while not having any single points of failure does count as a technical challenge. I don't think this sort of database is allowed to ever go down.
  - idontwantthis 4y ago
    It's gone down 1 time for less than 1 day in 3 years since I've been using it. That was quite a day.
- dimitrios1 4y ago
  It absolutely is a technical challenge, and all of the above: risk, compliance, regulatory, technical. Small countries can achieve fast transactions because their risk is lower, their complexity is lower, their compliance burden is lower, and their technical burden is lower, because they are...smaller. The migration to ISO 20022 is in full swing, finally. We will get there.
  - tootie 4y ago
    I mean yeah that's true. I guess I meant it's not a technical challenge to just transfer money quickly, but it definitely is a technical challenge to transfer money quickly in compliance with US regulations. And sure other countries have figured it out which is likely a function of more efficient bureaucracy and/or more lax compliance rules as opposed to not having smart enough technologists.
- nimish 4y ago
  Changing from a clearinghouse net once a day settlement to real time gross settlement is a huge change especially if you are a small bank running ancient software.
  - andrewxdiamond 4y ago
    Being a massive bank with ancient software is worse in many ways
- resoluteteeth 4y ago
  While that may be the true in the cases of very small countries, on the other hand, Europe generally has even stricter regulations than the US and it also has better payment systems, so I'm not sure that the problem with the US taking so long to achieve this is necessarily due to having more regulations than other countries. The US also has recently seems to have a hesitance toward introducing new regulations that actually seems to have made it harder to change things like these in cases where the private sector isn't able to take the initiative on its own.
- msaharia 4y ago
  UPI exists in India. And m-Pesa in Kenya. Neither are small countries or lightly regulated. At this point, US digital infrastructure is just objectively behind everyone else.
- 00deadbeef 4y ago
  The UK launched its Faster Payments network in 2008
  - srmarm 4y ago
    I remember at the time hearing stories of legacy systems that were in a dreadful state and in one case still using microfiche as part of the day to day processing. I know some time has passed since and a lot of money and effort has been spent in improving things but I'm still pretty impressed just how quick it all works. My banking app notifies me when money is sent or received from my account and it usually beats the checkout confirmation page load time or POS approved message when I make a purchase.
hackernewds 4y ago
Cambodia also has very simple financial systems and a lot of fraud

nXqd 4y ago

loxias 4y ago
Doubtful, considering "Chinese" technology is often American technology + state-sponsored espionage. Plus, I think the Buy American Act had the IT waver removed, no?

tootie 4y ago

It's not actually a technical challenge, more of a regulatory one. Small countries can achieve fast transactions by not having any compliance rules.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
MBCook 4y ago
Or just having far fewer banks that need to be involved, instead of the roughly 5k we have in the US.
- eru 4y ago
  The US has so many banks thanks to some earlier misguided regulation: In large parts of the US, it used to be illegal for banks to have branches. As you can guess, keeping your banks confined to one office in one city is a recipe for them being vulnerable to the fortunes of a single small area. In contrast, their neighbour to the north, Canada, had a much more stable banking system, that was run by large national chains (just like in most other parts of the developed world). If you want to learn more, George Selgin has written a lot on the topic. Other keywords to look for are 'unit banking' vs 'branch banking'.
  - rkagerer 4y ago
    I'm from Canada. Our banking system is stable, but expensive and not very competitive.
    - eru 4y ago
      I'm mostly familiar with more historic periods. See https://www.alt-m.org/2015/07/29/there-was-no-place-like-canada/ https://www.alt-m.org/2015/07/29/there-was-no-place-like-can... for some background that you might find interesting.
loxias 4y ago
I think a robust transaction processing system, which can scale and handle as many transactions as you can imagine, complying with regulations while not having any single points of failure does count as a technical challenge. I don't think this sort of database is allowed to ever go down.
- idontwantthis 4y ago
  It's gone down 1 time for less than 1 day in 3 years since I've been using it. That was quite a day.
dimitrios1 4y ago
It absolutely is a technical challenge, and all of the above: risk, compliance, regulatory, technical. Small countries can achieve fast transactions because their risk is lower, their complexity is lower, their compliance burden is lower, and their technical burden is lower, because they are...smaller. The migration to ISO 20022 is in full swing, finally. We will get there.
- tootie 4y ago
  I mean yeah that's true. I guess I meant it's not a technical challenge to just transfer money quickly, but it definitely is a technical challenge to transfer money quickly in compliance with US regulations. And sure other countries have figured it out which is likely a function of more efficient bureaucracy and/or more lax compliance rules as opposed to not having smart enough technologists.
nimish 4y ago
Changing from a clearinghouse net once a day settlement to real time gross settlement is a huge change especially if you are a small bank running ancient software.
- andrewxdiamond 4y ago
  Being a massive bank with ancient software is worse in many ways
resoluteteeth 4y ago
While that may be the true in the cases of very small countries, on the other hand, Europe generally has even stricter regulations than the US and it also has better payment systems, so I'm not sure that the problem with the US taking so long to achieve this is necessarily due to having more regulations than other countries. The US also has recently seems to have a hesitance toward introducing new regulations that actually seems to have made it harder to change things like these in cases where the private sector isn't able to take the initiative on its own.
msaharia 4y ago
UPI exists in India. And m-Pesa in Kenya. Neither are small countries or lightly regulated. At this point, US digital infrastructure is just objectively behind everyone else.
00deadbeef 4y ago
The UK launched its Faster Payments network in 2008
- srmarm 4y ago
  I remember at the time hearing stories of legacy systems that were in a dreadful state and in one case still using microfiche as part of the day to day processing. I know some time has passed since and a lot of money and effort has been spent in improving things but I'm still pretty impressed just how quick it all works. My banking app notifies me when money is sent or received from my account and it usually beats the checkout confirmation page load time or POS approved message when I make a purchase.

hackernewds 4y ago

Cambodia also has very simple financial systems and a lot of fraud