4 ms·

This PC cycle is interesting. Bill Maher and "politically incorrect" ended 20 years ago. Paving way for real time, but omg I'm feeling old. The PC cycle must ex

This PC cycle is interesting. Bill Maher and "politically incorrect" ended 20 years ago. Paving way for real time, but omg I'm feeling old. The PC cycle must exist, it will come and go in strength. Here's what happens when the cycle breaks. Tautological by definition, for 'politeness' to exist, you must have impoliteness. If you have a culture whose population has shifted more polite, like Canada, then democratically you end up going down this road of lawfully mandated politeness. Canada is jailing impolite people: https://thepostmillennial.com/rob-hoogland-canada-prisoner-of-conscience https://thepostmillennial.com/rob-hoogland-canada-prisoner-o... This is in essence what Jordan Peterson warned about and why he came to fame. This wasn't the first law to jail/punish impolite people in Canada; but also why Canada has a reputation of politeness. You in return get an intentional shift in the zeitgeist of Canada. If you were given the option in front of you to actively boost the politeness of your fellow countrypeople, you probably would do it. However, the consequence was political prisoners and the abolishment of free speech.

melvyn2 4y ago
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-post-millennial/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-post-millennial/ When you have to cite trash like this, it weakens your argument considerably. Maybe cite a better source?
- incomingpain 4y ago
  >When you have to cite trash like this, it weakens your argument considerably. Maybe cite a better source? https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/ca/20/00/2020BCCA0011.htm https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/ca/20/00/2020BCCA0011.htm You never attempted to rebut the actual content because it is legitimate. I suspect you even followed the sourcing and read for yourself. Instead you're here just to attack the source? I'm not invested in post millennial, why are you actively going after them?
  - zimpenfish 4y ago
    > You never even attempted to rebut the actual content because it is legitimate. I don't think anyone is disputing that this happened; it's more the egregious right-wing spin that you get from - what seem to be - the only sites to carry the story. The framing of "Canada are jailing impolite people" is kinda disingenuous - Canada are actually jailing people who repeatedly disobey court orders and that is perfectly valid and sane, no? Also the link you gave shows the "jailing impolite people" court specifically giving him latitude to make his appeal when they could just have tossed it - "[...] CD has on sundry occasions (including in his factum on appeal) failed to honour the court’s direction [...] CD has breached the confidentiality orders of the court [...] This court may, in its discretion, refuse to allow a party who has disregarded court orders to pursue or participate in an appeal: [...] However, given the importance of the issues raised in this appeal [...] we would not decline to hear from CD on the appeal."
    - incomingpain 4y ago
      >I don't think anyone is disputing that this happened; it's more the egregious right-wing spin that you get from - what seem to be - the only sites to carry the story. If something has happened and hasn't fabricated anything. Then you get to analyze the situation aka the spin. You report on it. There are spins for exactly the same story. Some far left news might right on the justice being served for this impolite guy going to prison. Whatever, doesn't matter. >The framing of "Canada are jailing impolite people" is kinda disingenuous I don't think so. I'm not saying 50% of society has been identified as below average politeness and is now in prison. >Canada are actually jailing people who repeatedly disobey court orders and that is perfectly valid and sane, no? The ruling was appealed and overturned. He has(d) a charter right to express his opinions in private. You absolutely can ignore unlawful rights violating court orders.
      - AftHurrahWinch 4y ago
        > You absolutely can ignore unlawful rights violating court orders. Hmm, I'm not sure this is the best advice.
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  I did a search for the name "Rob Hoogland" and pretty much all the sources were awful weak agenda-pushers. Top result was City Journal who have a large staff crossover with the Manhattan Institute - "a right-wing non-profit think tank" funded at least in part by the Kochs. The NY Post was the least bad, if you can believe it.
- jollybean 4y ago
  This kind of toxic purview is one of the 'roots of the problem'. It seems as though the facts of the situation have some legitimacy; that there is scant coverage is probably an indication of something awry in the media system itself.
- liketochill 4y ago
  It was overturned on appeal: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-appeal-court-trans-teen-1.5423577 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-appeal-c... I don’t think anyone should be allowed to undergo medical procedures or treatments to change genders until they are an adult, and I don’t think our school system should recommend kids change genders either. The advice should be wait until you are older and have had more time to think about it and life experience.
  - melvyn2 4y ago
    I don’t see what that has to do with what I said; your views on trans procedures don’t mean anything about op’s malformed argument.
    - liketochill 4y ago
      I was curious as to how that situation was resolved and found a more credible source for you. Did you see the link to cbc website? I suppose you didn’t ask for my opinion on trans procedures but this is a discussion forum and a topic of political correctness and sub thread on trans procedures so I didn’t think offering my thoughts on the content of the link I provided in response to your request would generate such ire!
- scohesc 4y ago
  I'm not the OP, but I have a hard time understanding why people can't separate the bias from the facts in any news piece. Sure, it's "The PoSt MiLlEnNiAl", but you lose the chance or opportunity to broaden your mind and understand why readers of these articles feel the way they do, which can help sympathize with your fellow person and not the local echo chambers of beliefs people seem to have put themselves in in the past couple decades. I guarantee you a lot of people who read The Post Millennial daily would have your same reaction if someone posted something from a more left-leaning outlet (which is part of the problem, but that's a discussion for another time) If you know a media outlet is biased (like 90% of them are) - then you know you have to be careful when trying to extract the facts and general sentiment of the writer. I don't know where this was lost in the collective consciousness of society or if we had it in the first place.
jollybean 4y ago
For whatever reason, most of those who challenge the orthodoxy on this go downhill, I mean Jordan Peterson used to be a 'quixotic person with an opinion', but this popularity made him a hero to 'one side' and so he's gone down a really odd path. There is no meaningful debate on the issue because nobody (or rather very few) is willing to dump their career to challenge the orthodoxy. Therefore only voices challenging the system are far-right wingnuts like Matt Gaetz, the Trump sons etc. I order for the issue to be taken serious, people need to be a few notches above 'Joe Rogan' and there just not that many. Also, if they are reasonable, neither Fox nor CNN/MSNBC want to carry them.
- incomingpain 4y ago
  >For whatever reason, most of those who challenge the orthodoxy on this go downhill, I mean Jordan Peterson used to be a 'quixotic person with an opinion', but this popularity made him a hero to 'one side' and so he's gone down a really odd path. Ya I guess his wife was dying and he had mental breakdown because that plus all the fame etc. I think there's an interesting breakdown though. There will never be a homogeneous politeness in a society. There will always be the Goody Two-Shoes who will never ever do anything bad. Those people actively work toward being superior. I would say they are superior. However, it means anyone in the way of their virtuousness is an enemy. It's about taking them down, look how much better I am than thee. >There is no meaningful debate on the issue because nobody (or rather very few) is willing to dump their career to challenge the orthodoxy. Therefore only voices challenging the system are far-right wingnuts like Matt Gaetz, the Trump sons etc. What is there to be as a POLITician. It's about being polite. Impolite people will always exist, and I am sure you consider those names as impolite people. >I order for the issue to be taken serious, people need to be a few notches above 'Joe Rogan' and there just not that many. It's all a consequence. If the 'polite' go too far, like they have in Canada. Then the suppressed impolite grow in power. >Also, if they are reasonable, neither Fox nor CNN/MSNBC want to carry them. I think what you're touching on is another cycle. We kind of saw it happen during financial crisis and now again. Something we suspected but didnt measure during various other events especially the great depression. In your real life, is everyone as jolly as you? Or does everyone you know seem to be anxious, depressed, numb, unhappy, suicidal? It also seems like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_American_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_American_Civil_War Might be something there. Imagine you are FOX/CNN/MSNBC. You see all this happening. Years of racial unrest, violence, destruction. Pulitizer the guy learnt the hard way and these news agencies haven't learnt yet.
aquaduck 4y ago
I don't think politeness is quite the right concept here. Nobody's getting jailed for saying "fuck you", for example.
- incomingpain 4y ago
  >I don't think politeness is quite the right concept here. Nobody's getting jailed for saying "fuck you", for example. I consider it impolite to misgender. Do you not?

melvyn2 4y ago

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-post-millennial/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-post-millennial/ When you have to cite trash like this, it weakens your argument considerably. Maybe cite a better source?

incomingpain 4y ago
>When you have to cite trash like this, it weakens your argument considerably. Maybe cite a better source? https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/ca/20/00/2020BCCA0011.htm https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/ca/20/00/2020BCCA0011.htm You never attempted to rebut the actual content because it is legitimate. I suspect you even followed the sourcing and read for yourself. Instead you're here just to attack the source? I'm not invested in post millennial, why are you actively going after them?
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  > You never even attempted to rebut the actual content because it is legitimate. I don't think anyone is disputing that this happened; it's more the egregious right-wing spin that you get from - what seem to be - the only sites to carry the story. The framing of "Canada are jailing impolite people" is kinda disingenuous - Canada are actually jailing people who repeatedly disobey court orders and that is perfectly valid and sane, no? Also the link you gave shows the "jailing impolite people" court specifically giving him latitude to make his appeal when they could just have tossed it - "[...] CD has on sundry occasions (including in his factum on appeal) failed to honour the court’s direction [...] CD has breached the confidentiality orders of the court [...] This court may, in its discretion, refuse to allow a party who has disregarded court orders to pursue or participate in an appeal: [...] However, given the importance of the issues raised in this appeal [...] we would not decline to hear from CD on the appeal."
  - incomingpain 4y ago
    >I don't think anyone is disputing that this happened; it's more the egregious right-wing spin that you get from - what seem to be - the only sites to carry the story. If something has happened and hasn't fabricated anything. Then you get to analyze the situation aka the spin. You report on it. There are spins for exactly the same story. Some far left news might right on the justice being served for this impolite guy going to prison. Whatever, doesn't matter. >The framing of "Canada are jailing impolite people" is kinda disingenuous I don't think so. I'm not saying 50% of society has been identified as below average politeness and is now in prison. >Canada are actually jailing people who repeatedly disobey court orders and that is perfectly valid and sane, no? The ruling was appealed and overturned. He has(d) a charter right to express his opinions in private. You absolutely can ignore unlawful rights violating court orders.
    - AftHurrahWinch 4y ago
      > You absolutely can ignore unlawful rights violating court orders. Hmm, I'm not sure this is the best advice.
zimpenfish 4y ago
I did a search for the name "Rob Hoogland" and pretty much all the sources were awful weak agenda-pushers. Top result was City Journal who have a large staff crossover with the Manhattan Institute - "a right-wing non-profit think tank" funded at least in part by the Kochs. The NY Post was the least bad, if you can believe it.
jollybean 4y ago
This kind of toxic purview is one of the 'roots of the problem'. It seems as though the facts of the situation have some legitimacy; that there is scant coverage is probably an indication of something awry in the media system itself.
liketochill 4y ago
It was overturned on appeal: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-appeal-court-trans-teen-1.5423577 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-appeal-c... I don’t think anyone should be allowed to undergo medical procedures or treatments to change genders until they are an adult, and I don’t think our school system should recommend kids change genders either. The advice should be wait until you are older and have had more time to think about it and life experience.
- melvyn2 4y ago
  I don’t see what that has to do with what I said; your views on trans procedures don’t mean anything about op’s malformed argument.
  - liketochill 4y ago
    I was curious as to how that situation was resolved and found a more credible source for you. Did you see the link to cbc website? I suppose you didn’t ask for my opinion on trans procedures but this is a discussion forum and a topic of political correctness and sub thread on trans procedures so I didn’t think offering my thoughts on the content of the link I provided in response to your request would generate such ire!
scohesc 4y ago
I'm not the OP, but I have a hard time understanding why people can't separate the bias from the facts in any news piece. Sure, it's "The PoSt MiLlEnNiAl", but you lose the chance or opportunity to broaden your mind and understand why readers of these articles feel the way they do, which can help sympathize with your fellow person and not the local echo chambers of beliefs people seem to have put themselves in in the past couple decades. I guarantee you a lot of people who read The Post Millennial daily would have your same reaction if someone posted something from a more left-leaning outlet (which is part of the problem, but that's a discussion for another time) If you know a media outlet is biased (like 90% of them are) - then you know you have to be careful when trying to extract the facts and general sentiment of the writer. I don't know where this was lost in the collective consciousness of society or if we had it in the first place.

jollybean 4y ago

For whatever reason, most of those who challenge the orthodoxy on this go downhill, I mean Jordan Peterson used to be a 'quixotic person with an opinion', but this popularity made him a hero to 'one side' and so he's gone down a really odd path. There is no meaningful debate on the issue because nobody (or rather very few) is willing to dump their career to challenge the orthodoxy. Therefore only voices challenging the system are far-right wingnuts like Matt Gaetz, the Trump sons etc. I order for the issue to be taken serious, people need to be a few notches above 'Joe Rogan' and there just not that many. Also, if they are reasonable, neither Fox nor CNN/MSNBC want to carry them.

incomingpain 4y ago
>For whatever reason, most of those who challenge the orthodoxy on this go downhill, I mean Jordan Peterson used to be a 'quixotic person with an opinion', but this popularity made him a hero to 'one side' and so he's gone down a really odd path. Ya I guess his wife was dying and he had mental breakdown because that plus all the fame etc. I think there's an interesting breakdown though. There will never be a homogeneous politeness in a society. There will always be the Goody Two-Shoes who will never ever do anything bad. Those people actively work toward being superior. I would say they are superior. However, it means anyone in the way of their virtuousness is an enemy. It's about taking them down, look how much better I am than thee. >There is no meaningful debate on the issue because nobody (or rather very few) is willing to dump their career to challenge the orthodoxy. Therefore only voices challenging the system are far-right wingnuts like Matt Gaetz, the Trump sons etc. What is there to be as a POLITician. It's about being polite. Impolite people will always exist, and I am sure you consider those names as impolite people. >I order for the issue to be taken serious, people need to be a few notches above 'Joe Rogan' and there just not that many. It's all a consequence. If the 'polite' go too far, like they have in Canada. Then the suppressed impolite grow in power. >Also, if they are reasonable, neither Fox nor CNN/MSNBC want to carry them. I think what you're touching on is another cycle. We kind of saw it happen during financial crisis and now again. Something we suspected but didnt measure during various other events especially the great depression. In your real life, is everyone as jolly as you? Or does everyone you know seem to be anxious, depressed, numb, unhappy, suicidal? It also seems like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_American_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_American_Civil_War Might be something there. Imagine you are FOX/CNN/MSNBC. You see all this happening. Years of racial unrest, violence, destruction. Pulitizer the guy learnt the hard way and these news agencies haven't learnt yet.

aquaduck 4y ago

I don't think politeness is quite the right concept here. Nobody's getting jailed for saying "fuck you", for example.

incomingpain 4y ago
>I don't think politeness is quite the right concept here. Nobody's getting jailed for saying "fuck you", for example. I consider it impolite to misgender. Do you not?