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Unless you already have top of market compensation, I'd focus on interviewing for a higher paying job rather than do more work on the side. Going by the ££ sig
by jjevanoorschot 4y ago
Unless you already have top of market compensation, I'd focus on interviewing for a higher paying job rather than do more work on the side.
Going by the ££ signs I'm assuming you can get a job in London, where you can make >£200k total compensation as a good software engineer.
- jinglejangley 4y agoI'm already earning near that compensation, was just looking for something on the side as well :)
- ChrisRR 4y agoHow much more money do you need if you're on 200K? That's already like 3-4x the salary of a dev in the UK
- sirsinsalot 4y agoMaking a value judgement on someones financial ambition is a little ... weak. Does it really matter? I'm on £200k gross in the UK, outside London ... but i'm not done climbing that mountain. Of course £200k is "enough" for anyone, but that doesn't mean you can't aim higher. Ambition should be celebrated
- rhn_mk1 4y agoI can get behind celebrating ambition, but only if it doesn't as a side effect involve widening wage inequality in the society.
- tdehnel 4y agoOh stop it. Every time we make progress there will be some unequal effect. Some people will benefit and others will lose out. We should do our best to balance the trade offs, but to say someone shouldn’t be ambitious if there is some unequal effect is preposterous and pessimistic.
- CrazyPyroLinux 4y agoI'm reminded of Margaret Thatcher's response to this: "He'd rather the poor were poorer, as long as the rich were less rich."[1] Every ethical dollar earned is a byproduct of value creation. Maybe you meant something more like "as long as he's not ripping off his customers," but otherwise that's an odd thing to say in response to someone who makes good money but is still looking for side jobs. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c&t=48s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c&t=48s
- cardanome 4y ago
- scatters 4y ago> artificially increasing supply of labor Say's Law: supply creates its own demand. Or in this specific case, this is the lump-of-labor fallacy. Perhaps if the left had some basic understanding of economics past Marx, they wouldn't be blinded by their comically unreasoning hatred of Thatcher.
- CrazyPyroLinux 4y agoDid you unironically make an ad hominem? Well it sounds like you got it figured out what's best for everyone's health, ethics, and economics. Thankfully we have wise people to tell us what we can and can't work on...
- impossiblefork 4y agoWhy does wage inequality matter? Inequality isn't strongly driven by wages, but is by capital income. Personally, the way I see it, the more money goes to wages, the better, and if that's because some guy is earning millions a year, I still think it's good. Income from people starting new companies, that's fine too. What's bad is rent extraction, ossification, monopolies and private institutions that have power over people.
- giantg2 4y ago"Ambition should be celebrated" I might agree with this depending on what the specific goal is. But why should ambition be generally celebrated? There is certainly ambition that has brought about improvement in life. There has also been ambition applied to the wrong ends or failing that has brought suffering. I'm not sold on the idea that the goal of continually increasing comp above an already luxurious level is meaningful or worth a third party celebrating. I especially feel this way about our industry where comp seems detached from the contributions are not easily attributed/calculated.
- nerdponx 4y agoIt is perfectly valid to believe that OP is probably overpaid in their day job, and also to believe that they are entitled to seek a side gig if they prefer.
- giantg2 4y agoOk... that has nothing to do with my comment. Of course they're entitled to want a side gig. But why is ambition something to be celebrated, especially in the context of this example?
- yojo 4y agoIn theory (and in a well functioning system), ambition in a populace leads to GDP growth as ambitious people seek ways to make more money by doing higher value work. This in turn leads to a higher standard of living, possibly for everyone if you redistribute some of the surplus via taxation schemes. Personally (and more selfishly), I tried to raise my salary to be able to afford not working for extended periods of time.
- xwdv 4y agoAmbition is the enemy of consistency.
- sokoloff 4y ago10s of thousands of years of integrated ambition have helped ensure that we are not consistently living outdoors.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y agoSo?
- Joeboy 4y agoI'm just genuinely intrigued as to why someone on £200k would want to work more. maybe there's a good reason, like they're an "earn to give" person, or some actual ambition the money will help fulfill, or some expensive health need etc. Maybe they'd like to spend less time with their family. Just wanting to exchange more of your life for more money seems weird to me, if you're already in a position to be able to live in luxury.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y agoTwo viable possibilities: 1. It's about the money, because you never know when you may have a 5-10 year underproductive period due to health/other unforeseen emergency. 2. It's not about the money, it's about the experience/knowledge gained/distraction/self-worth of accomplishing more.
- Joeboy 4y ago> it's about the experience/knowledge gained/distraction/self-worth of accomplishing more To me, a side gig means accomplishing more of what someone else wants, with the trade-off of being less able to accomplish (or learn about, or distract yourself with) what you want. Which seems like an odd thing to want unless you need the money. I suppose for some people having a £200k income and not needing the money seem less synonymous than they do to me.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y agoSometimes people see others' goals as helpful to their own. See: John Carmack at FB.
- returningfory2 4y agoIn the neighborhood of New York City I live in, buying a 2 bedroom apartment requires you to have a higher yearly income than $250k (~= £200k). The simple desires of (a) wanting space for family and (b) wanting to live in a specific place, can push you to want to earn higher salaries.
- goodpoint 4y ago> Ambition should be celebrated Only if you mean skill growth and self improvement. But pure greed - no, we have more than enough of that.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y agoI want to work hard at my axe throwing skills so I can hit targets more accurately. That will help me become a better axe murderer since people are less likely to see me. Still wanna celebrate my skill growth?
- goodpoint 4y agoYou are confusing skills vs intentions. They are, obviously, two completely different things.
- porker 4y agoShare the secret of "£200k gross in the UK, outside London" please because I've never found that outside London and I hate that city :)
- sirsinsalot 4y agoBe a contractor charging high day rates in a niche nobody else wants to work in.
- giantg2 4y agoSome people have unique needs and wants. There's also the whole fish growing to fill its aquarium thing. So it's reasonable for them to feel that way, just as it's reasonable for you to feel the other. That said, I would suggest that at that level of comp, maybe just use the extra time for your own enjoyment - hobby, relaxing, FOSS personal project, etc.
- varispeed 4y agoThis is my pet peeve - why so many people here in the UK strive for mediocrity? Do we really got rid ourselves of any ambitions? When you admit to earning more than £35k you are supposed to feel sorry and apologise for trying and if you are over £80k people look at you as a privileged money pinata, that ideally should be taxed at 100% and keep head down in shame. For instance, I have been working on a product in my spare time and I don't want to finance it through loans or giving up equity. Having £200k job (only £9,500 net per month) would get me closer to get the required tools, inventory, securing a rent for the workshop and storage, but that still not really too much money for that kind of endeavour. Unfortunately I am coming from a poor working class and I don't have a rich daddy to fund my start up, yet when people learn how much I earn they think I am rich, but reality is that kind of money is not enough to make anything sensible with it (you still have to save for years and live modestly), but people think it's the level of private jets and heated pool in a large back garden of a mansion.
- kjellsbells 4y agoCant speak for the UK, but all it takes is a disabled child or other complex life situation and the numbers suddenly arent so rosy. I refrain from asking anyone "why do you need more money?" - its their business alone.
- buzbe_uk 4y agoThis may be unpopular here, but be really clear what you want out of your job. If you're just talking side gigs be really clear this doesn't interfere with your own job performance. The first target you hit because of your "side gig" will be your downward spiral. Now .. running your own business is another option. For me I encourage my staff to have "side gig" of their own business, but will not sign off on them contracting on the side. One is a valuable option where you learn new skills - the other is...
- swamp40 4y ago> For me I encourage my staff to have "side gig" of their own business, but will not sign off on them contracting on the side. I'm not clear on how that works. Could you provide an example?
- ygjb 4y agoI will provide a concrete example, even though I am not the parent commenter. I work for a FAANG company in a reasonably senior role. I have carveouts in my employment contract that I negotiated when I started a few months ago, because in addition to my day job, I co-own a coworking space with my wife (and she owns other businesses that I do some light tech work for - site maintenance, office network, etc). My day job is very demanding, but my leadership team are aware, and the HR folks at my employer have documentation that supports me having a side business, and so if I say things like "I have to go the bank/lawyer stuff for my business", no one bats an eye as long as I am hitting my targets for the day job. The expectation is that I will largely be available and focused on my day job during the 9-5, and where needed, provide support on escalations/on-call. If I started taking on consulting contracts or was regularly juggling contracting or side-job related tasks against my day job, then it wouldn't be a good fit for delivering on that 9-5.
- pc86 4y ago> For me I encourage my staff to have "side gig" of their own business, but will not sign off on them contracting on the side. Imagine believing that you have the right to "sign off" on what your employees do in their free time provided they're not directly competing with you.
- rswskg 4y agoAre you a contractor?
- jinglejangley 4y agoI am not.
- rswskg 4y agoDamm. What industry are you in?
- rrwo 4y agoIf you are already earning near that, then unless you have a pressing need to earn more money, I'd do something else with your free time.
- mywittyname 4y agoYou're chasing pennies with a side-gig. If you're already at the top of market in terms of pay, it's unlikely a side-gig is going bring in enough to satisfy your ambitions. Why not start your own business? The upside is much better. Yeah, it might fail, but you can decide to start another one what you learned.
- jinglejangley 4y agoYeah, it seems like I had an idealistic view of what a side gig would be, whereas it's a lot more work than I wish to spend on it. I'm happy in my day job; it's secure, I'm paid well and I get a lot of time with my family. Starting my own business would put family time in jeopardy which isn't an option, especially as I'd have to give up my main income.
- ghaff 4y agoI think you're probably right. Every now and then I've had something fall in my lap from someone I knew. I've done a few focus groups (though those are during the day.) And so forth. But, perhaps not unsurprisingly, there really isn't a general source for short side gigs paying a few hundred dollars an hour--especially for asynchronous tasks you can do nights or weekends.
- yolo3000 4y agoI did this last year. I work full time for ~100/hr, and someone I've worked with before, recommended me to an early stage startup in the US. They paid me ~130/hr just to be part of the meetings with their EU based dev team. Monthly I was making 2-3k extra but the context switching, startup rollercoaster, dev team not performing turned out to be stressful. In the end they secured funding and assembled an in house dev team, so they didn't need me anymore. I suggest you try it, but not for the extra money because the extra stress is not sustainable long term, do it for the learning experience and maybe that will help you in the future.
- synergy20 4y agotried both full time and contractor years back, too stressful, can't deal with both with kids, I since focus on one of them, not both at the same time, for the sake of my own health.
- geocrasher 4y agoWhy, though? If you're making that much money, it's unlikely you need more. Fill your time with things that will make you happy, not things that will make you wealthier. You're filling the wrong tank.
- MrPatan 4y agoFANGs? startups? contracts? It's been a while since I looked, is 200k the norm now? Asking for a friend...
- politelemon 4y agoIt most certainly isn't the norm now, with exceptions of course. FAANG and some large banks can pay a lot, but most do not.
- nerdponx 4y agoIn Boston and NYC I am seeing $150-200k at well-funded startups for "experienced IC" roles. If you have several years of experience, and you're actually a good engineer, and aren't at least above 150k in a market like this, you need to start interviewing, because your current employer is taking advantage of you.
- PainfullyNormal 4y ago> If you have several years of experience, and you're actually a good interviewer FTFY.
- jjevanoorschot 4y agoI mentioned £200k because it's near the top end for a senior engineer in London (although not the very top). FAANG, some Unicorns, trading firms will pay this to a senior engineer. Bear in mind this is total compensation, so part of that will be in stock or options. For engineers based in the UK that are shocked by this number I'd recommend reading this [0] article. It's about compensation in the Netherlands but the same principle holds for the UK. [0] https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala...
- eclat 4y agoThis was a great read, thanks.
- 4y ago
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- sedeki 4y agoHow would I go about making that kind of money? I'm planning on moving to London next year. My professional background is as a web dev.
- Cthulhu_ 4y agoProbably not as a web dev; senior / lead Java developer, Oracle DBA, managerial level at big companies like banks and insurance might get you closer to that. But to be blunt, you're probably not worth 200K as a web developer.
- sedeki 4y agoThank you, I appreciate the honest feedback. My academic background is technical (math), but not CS. Been wanting to transition into another role. Not sure what exactly but within software development. Can I send you an email?
- dominotw 4y ago> I'm planning on moving to London next year. I found it really hard to find jobs that pay anywhere close to US salaries in EU. Unless things are very different now, I would plan to move to US to make 'that kind of money'.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y agoI was going to say. Unless you have things lined up, I would hesitate to move to UK without a plan. I am saying this as my sister is attempting this very thing ( and me trying to discourage her since its a business pie in the sky kind of dream ). The days easily obtainable jobs ( especially the low level ones ) for other EU members are over. She did not seem to get that memo. On the high end of the spectrum, banking lost some jobs as a result of Brexit. Dunno about insurance. US has its benefits, but I would consider age as a factor ( if you are younger, you may be able to worry less about insurance and whatnot ).
- aregsar 4y agoTry transitioning from full stack web dev to back end architect working with microservices and cloud infrastructure