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Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

142 points by 6ren 15y ago

rd108 15y ago
The two areas highlighted in the article show prefrontal cortex (front of brain) and PCC (towards the back) shutting down. The prefrontal cortex is associated with executive attention and reasoning, while PCC appears to be differentially dialed up or down in conditions with altered states of consciousness (like people under anesthesia, in a coma, or apparently meditating.) Shameless plug: We're using these neuroscientific insights to design a meditation self-tracking tool at http://brainbot.me http://brainbot.me now.
- adbge 15y ago
  You should add an about page. A meditation self-tracking tool sounds interesting (I've just started sitting zazen), but I'm going to need some details before I hand over my email.
  - rd108 15y ago
    We do need to get a little more info on the teaser page, we've been pretty heads down on the actual app for the RockHealth.org incubator. We just finished last week so I'll throw something together soon. My background is actually neuroscience; before this I was doing neuroimaging of meditation research at the Harvard-MIT-MGH Martinos Center in Boston. The whole project kind of started with this crazy trip to India to find monks to put EEG equipment on in 2009.
  - xavoy 15y ago
    Not to dis BrainBot, but the only Zazen tracking tool you need is to sit Zazen every day. I can see how competition and seeing your hours tick over might be encouraging to some degree, and if the site encourages people to sit more then it is worthwhile! But I see enough chest puffing on the 'net as it is with regards to people's meditation, and how amazing they are now because of it or how much they are sitting, and it makes me feel ill. Your practice should be personal, for you (and the big you) and should be a part of your Bodhisattva work, not a device used to enlarge your ego.
    - grandpa 15y ago
      What is Bodhisattva work? Is it the idea that by meditating, you're making the world a better place?
    - kstenerud 15y ago
      "Your practice should be personal, for you (and the big you) and should be a part of your Bodhisattva work, not a device used to enlarge your ego." Why not? People train at the gym to better themselves (and thus enlarge their ego). Why should meditation be any different?
- rsanheim 15y ago
  Of course, the very idea of tracking and working on "improving" via meditation goes against the core idea of zen meditation itself. But I'm interested in your startup anyway. :) edit: in fairness, there are many types of meditation beyond zen.
  - rd108 15y ago
    Yes, we have started building a database of many different styles of meditation, but the work is just beginning. There's so much we don't know yet! Thank you for the feedback
  - nimblegorilla 15y ago
    Isn't enlightenment the ultimate form of self improvement? Maybe you are practicing a different form of Zen than what I am used to. I don't think tracking itself is anti-Zen, but stressing out about your measurements would be. (also worrying about what is and is not Zen seems anti-Zen).
    - xavoy 15y ago
      If you're aiming for enlightenment, you've missed the mark :)
  - VMG 15y ago
    > Of course, the very idea of tracking and working on "improving" via meditation goes against the core idea of zen meditation itself. The - excuse me - postmodern gobbledygook of some schools are is what has turned me off meditation again and again. I'd love to follow a rationalist, scientific school of meditation that has mind improvement as a goal.
    - asmala 15y ago
      In that case Daniel Ingram's book Mastering the Core Teachings on the Buddha might be a good place to start. I think it's also important not to throw away the baby with the bath water; just because the techniques are explained in an archaic language and seemingly inseparable from a traditionalist cultural tradition, doesn't mean they do not produce results. Still probably a good idea to start with something easily approachable so you can start to discern what's effective and what's just cultural cargo culting.
timsally 15y ago
Can anyone find a copy of the paper? I haven't been able to dig one up.
- lije 15y ago
  I don't think it's out yet. PNAS publications come out every Tuesday so maybe it'll be out in tomorrow's issue.
jessriedel 15y ago
The real question is whether it's a good thing to stop "mind wandering" when it hasn't reached the level of disorder. From the perspective of evolution, it almost certainly has a purpose. Paul Graham pointed out that its probably useful for problem solving: http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html I wonder if it would be good to have the ability to better focus one's self when one's mind is wandering into unproductive subjects (e.g. agonizing over an ex) without necessarily getting to the point where your default mode has been changed so much as to prevent insights in the shower (and instead being deeply aware of the hot water).
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - unignorant 15y ago
    > Bringing the mind to its unmoved state, a state of no-thought, leads to an indescribable bliss. Do you have evidence to support this claim? I can empty my mind, and it is not blissful. It is nothing. > A wandering mind is more prone to distraction, which can be fatal. Assuming, of course, we are speaking of survival factors. Tradeoffs. Personally, I would want to be distracted by an event that might otherwise prove fatal.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
      - jessriedel 15y ago
        >This empty state of mind allows for better problem-solving This is the claim I'd like evidence for.
        WayneDB 15y ago
        I'm not aware of any studies here, but it's been said many times that solutions to tough problems often present themselves while the ponderer isn't thinking about the problem, sometimes upon waking up or just before falling asleep.
programnature 15y ago
A bunch of the people FMRI'd in this study were pulled from the pragmatic dharma movement: http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2011/04/pragmatic-dharma-on-rise.html http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2011/04/pragmatic-dha...
cmer 15y ago
I'm getting increasingly interested in meditation, mainly because it seems like it could make me use my brain better. I have no clue where to start though. Anyone has info to share? I'm a total noob to this. Thanks!
- omarchowdhury 15y ago
  I recommend Patanjali's Yoga Sutras: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/patanjal/patanyog.htm http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/patanjal/patanyog.htm A simpler approach: http://www.movingintostillness.com/meditation.html http://www.movingintostillness.com/meditation.html Keywords: Raja Yoga, Kundalini Yoga, Hatha Yoga, Laya Yoga, Mantra Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Jhana, Samadhi
- WayneDB 15y ago
  Please read my other comment on this thread with some links to articles that might interest you. - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264078 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264078 Krishnamurti has a lot to say about meditation, I also recommend the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, the Bhagavad Gita (Jack Hawley translation is very thorough, it's subtitled A Walkthrough for Westerners) and lastly The Upanishads (the one with commentary by Eknath Easwaran is excellent.)
  - cmer 15y ago
    Great information in that other comment of yours. When you say "yoga", is it what ladies do following a DVD or is it some other form of meditation I am not aware of?
    - rd108 15y ago
      traditionally, yoga referred to both preliminary physical practice ("what ladies do" or hatha yoga) as well as mental practice ("meditation" or raja yoga). The two were inextricably linked, where the former was practiced for the sole purpose of preparing the body for long, seated meditation.
    - Alex3917 15y ago
WayneDB 15y ago
I learned to meditate by reading and listening to Krishnamurti (among many others). "Meditation is not different from daily life" he says. "It can be done all day." It's exactly like being in the zone that you get into when you code, play video games, run, exercise, etc. You can do it better and without needing a crutch activity by consciously shaping your thought/energy patterns; by constantly focus your mind on pure observance and acceptance of all that exists in the current moment without allowing "I/me/mine/he said/she said" ego thoughts to take over (by simply realizing and reaffirming that those thoughts are devoid of value). The ego driven thoughts go away after consistent practice, as does the suffering associated with such thoughts. Seriously, if you are sensitive to "what so-and-so said about you on Facebook, or what your rivals, boss, friends, etc think" or if your brain just races and races away into the night and you can't seem to shut it down...meditation is the best way to fix all that. Get in the non-ego zone and just stay there all day. And do some exercise, preferably Yoga which is all about balance, which is what life and your mind and consciousness are all about. Don't think about it or "try" or plan or obsess over how it's going to change your life or what people will think about it. Just say this is what I'm doing now and go ahead and do it without ego. It is a huge relief. http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-daily-quote/20091119.php?t=Meditation http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-dai... http://www.krishnamurtiaustralia.org/articles/meditation%201.htm http://www.krishnamurtiaustralia.org/articles/meditation%201...
- tokenadult 15y ago
  by constantly focus your mind on pure observance and acceptance of all that exists in the current moment I'd like to follow up, please, on what these words mean. Does "acceptance of all that exists in the current moment" mean that demonstrators at Tahrir Square should be accepting of a dictatorial government? I'm curious about this issue, because I lived for several years in a predominantly Buddhist country that was a dictatorship the first time I lived there. I (and other Americans who lived there) often wondered why the common people in that country put up with the dictatorship for so long. Is there a limit beyond which acceptance stops? When a person is out of the state of "constantly focus your mind on pure observance and acceptance of all that exists in the current moment," what comes next? What actions do people take to grapple with problems on the basis of such shaping of thought patterns? I'm curious about this, so I appreciate any response you have to these questions.
xavoy 15y ago
Meditation isn't about tuning OUT, it's about tuning IN. Also, it's not 'suppressing' anything, it's just not paying the 'me' thoughts the attention you normally would.
nate 15y ago
My wife just bought me a beginner's mediation class at the Peace School in Chicago. We just finished our third class. I'll write up a few notes about it later this week on my blog (http://n8.tumblr.com http://n8.tumblr.com). But it's been pretty cool and positive. I'm surprised how challenging it is to even meditate for 5 minutes a day. Here's a good book I've been enjoying on the brain that introduces some meditation stuff and benefits http://www.amazon.com/Train-Your-Brain-Get-Happy/dp/1440511810 http://www.amazon.com/Train-Your-Brain-Get-Happy/dp/14405118...
tokenadult 15y ago
After reading this press release carefully, I notice that the paper mentioned in the press release was submitted to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, which is essentially a publication that accepts most submissions from members of the "club," that is the National Academy. I wonder what additional steps would have to be taken to produce a paper that could get published in a more stringently reviewed journal. While we all look up other literature on the subject, I thought it would be a good idea here to mention once again my favorite hacker's guide to how to read research reports, by Peter Norvig, director of research at Google: http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html
- epistasis 15y ago
  It's a mistake to assume that this was not peer reviewed. The PNAS has two tracks, stringent peer review and direct submission from members of the National Academy of Sciences. Every article is labelled as to whether it was reviewed or not, and the vast majority of PNAS articles I see are peer reviewed. Those articles that go through peer-review are typically of extremely high quality and impact; it takes a very strong paper to make it through peer review at PNAS, typically.
tygorius 15y ago
It would be nice to see the article itself. I would be curious to see how/if they controlled for selection bias. That is, the summary indicates they took images of the brains of novices and experienced meditators. It does not indicate that they took images tracking changes in brain activity as people progressed from novice to experienced. I'm not saying that it's implausible that neuroplasticity effects can be found in the default mode network, just that those with the strongest symptoms might not easily (or ever) get to the "experienced" stage and the implied relief.
tuckbuck 15y ago
Meditation is a very personal ,inner endeavour. As Shunryu Suzuki says, the moment you see a Buddha,you should kill him.(ie you are the only Buddha you should look up to). Iam not sure how tools like brainbot can really help in a personal journey. One needs to just do it !!
gojomo 15y ago
Meditation affects people differently; for a few people it is associated with seizures or other problems. See this article for more info: http://www.sfweekly.com/content/printVersion/313883 http://www.sfweekly.com/content/printVersion/313883
- xavoy 15y ago
  That article highlights the need for having a good teacher, and teaching meditation together with ethical guidelines. It also smells very much like someone has something to lose by meditations rising popularity (ie, drug companies pushing the mentioned Prozac). It's full of slimy, non commital wording (like many, a lot and some) and also full of experiences that are made to sound terribly negative but don't really matter at all. Meditation _can_ make you hallucinate, it _can_ make you burst into tears or fits of laughter, it can do a lot of things (although I've never known meditation to CAUSE seizures?! Come on... Show me some proof of that.) That is why working with a _good_ teacher is very important. In their 40+ years of experience, they've been there. You have to apply to go on our retreats, and if a teacher, for whatever reason, doesn't think it's a good idea that you go, then he or she will encourage you not to and if it was required would prevent you from going, although I've never known it to come to this. There are probably people that need to go to a counselor, therapist or psychologist before sitting with themselves for long periods. Furthermore (and in my humble opinion) you should get the hell away from any meditation teacher that implies you're channeling a spirit guide or speaking to God. There's some fruity 'Guru's' out there. Do your research. Don't believe or expect miracles. Don't submit to anyone. Act ethically at all times and take some responsibility for your own actions.
ypcx 15y ago
[I'm sleepy so bear with me.] Meditation is extremely easy - for a while. I'm interested in it, I try to do it regularly, but it's not easy to return to it every day, or during a busy day. We see a news article about it, we talk about it, some of us will try it for a while, but in a month from now, all of us will be at the same point as right now - not doing it anymore. It's hard to stress how important is to practice regularly, as then it starts to be really effective. In my life, I'm returning to meditation in waves, in short periods of practice, but for some (possibly material, possibly immaterial) reason, I want more. My aim is to find a way how to meditate sustainably, with the least effort, and how to remind oneself every day that he should meditate. Mind you, I don't know if this is even viable, as sometimes your mind revolts, and when it does, it will (on the background) use your best intelligence and creativity to avoid the practice. I think that not even smartphone apps can help you in this regard. Speaking of which, so far I've seen two worth mentioning (I haven't tried them yet), this one for iPhone http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/lotus-bud-meditation-timer/id441875698?ls=1&mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/lotus-bud-meditation-timer/id... and this one for Android https://market.android.com/details?id=com.nwalex.meditation https://market.android.com/details?id=com.nwalex.meditation. But as I said, I'm not sure these can help in a long run. The problem is that as you keep practicing (internal-awareness) meditation regularly, it will change your external reality (a.k.a. your life) very profoundly, only making it harder to keep practicing every day. There's a lot more to write about this, I could go on and on for many more pages - distractions, formal vs informal, beating your daily energy deficiency, cheating the thought-switching mechanism that makes you day-dream during meditation, etc.. but I want to put this in a readable and practically usable form first, if that is possible at all. (Edit: oh, and it must be a very short form - if you write a book about meditation, then - I believe - you have already failed to deliver what matters, as in that case the reader will simply get satisfied/their energy depleted with the reading itself, and their focus moves to something else.)
- xavoy 15y ago
  I use the iPhone app called 'Soto Timer' when I'm away. It's free and allows you to configure multiple periods (so you can sit, rest or kinhin, sit, rest or kinhin etc) Sitting every day is most important. There is no substitute for this. A good way to convince yourself of the benefits, and to reinvigorate your practice, is to throw yourself into the deep end and do a retreat. The 'container' of a 'retreat' (retreat is an inadequate word, if you've ever done a proper retreat you'll know why) allows you to sit for extended periods and remain mindful when doing other simple activities like cutting food for your lunch. As you said though, meditation is a 'practice'. There is no 'attainment' - if you're not practicing, the benefits are basically nil. As such, you need to practice for it to be worthwhile. The best time to sit is first thing in the morning. Set your alarm, get out of bed (no excuses) and sit down. This is good for two reasons. 1) if you do nothing else all day, at least you've done your meditation and 2) as you've not had a chance to distract yourself yet, you're more likely to remain present. Of course you'll distract yourself with your plans for your day and convince yourself that you don't have time for this, that you're too tired, but these are just stories like all the others you tell yourself. Let them go, and return to your breath, again and again and again.
itmag 15y ago
I am a self-help junky, and I am trying to get started with meditation currently. Here's a bunch of meditations I found, from the author of "Buddha's Brain": https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/ https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/ His web site: http://www.wisebrain.org/ http://www.wisebrain.org/
kahawe 15y ago
An interesting detail to add: at least one mental health expert has told me that meditating on a regular basis can be a very powerful tool for fighting depressions and other psychological issues; the number of patients suffering from those issues amongst people who have been meditating for years seem to be extremely low. Now a question for all you hackers: how to get started on meditating without running into the arms of some obscure cults and sects? And pointers?
- joshcorbin 15y ago
  For me I've found these two websites to be helpful: * http://www.audiodharma.org http://www.audiodharma.org -- podcasts, including introduction to mindfullness meditation * http://www.accesstoinsight.org http://www.accesstoinsight.org -- translations of the Pali canon
- gnaffle 15y ago
  I found this to be a good introduction: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
  - vidarh 15y ago
    Second Mindfulness in Plain English. It is excellent, and though written by a Buddhist monk it is for the most part careful about separating the (little) material on Buddhism out as mostly contextual information, and point out that it is not necessary for the meditation practice itself. I also recommend a series of podcasts by Gil Fronsdal at Audiodharma called Introduction to Meditation: http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/ http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/ It covers largely the same approach as Mindfulness in Plain English and fits great in with the book. It contains a series of short guided meditations. It is also "cult free". While Fronsdal is Buddhist, he deliberately makes fun of how being a Buddhist or knowing much about Buddhism isn't necessary, for example by pointing out how mindfulness meditation is being taught as a stress reduction technique at places like Kaiser but "without mentioning the B-word", and that's about the full extent of the mention of Buddhism in the recordings.

142 points by 6ren 15y ago

rd108 15y ago

The two areas highlighted in the article show prefrontal cortex (front of brain) and PCC (towards the back) shutting down. The prefrontal cortex is associated with executive attention and reasoning, while PCC appears to be differentially dialed up or down in conditions with altered states of consciousness (like people under anesthesia, in a coma, or apparently meditating.) Shameless plug: We're using these neuroscientific insights to design a meditation self-tracking tool at http://brainbot.me http://brainbot.me now.

adbge 15y ago
You should add an about page. A meditation self-tracking tool sounds interesting (I've just started sitting zazen), but I'm going to need some details before I hand over my email.
- rd108 15y ago
  We do need to get a little more info on the teaser page, we've been pretty heads down on the actual app for the RockHealth.org incubator. We just finished last week so I'll throw something together soon. My background is actually neuroscience; before this I was doing neuroimaging of meditation research at the Harvard-MIT-MGH Martinos Center in Boston. The whole project kind of started with this crazy trip to India to find monks to put EEG equipment on in 2009.
- xavoy 15y ago
  Not to dis BrainBot, but the only Zazen tracking tool you need is to sit Zazen every day. I can see how competition and seeing your hours tick over might be encouraging to some degree, and if the site encourages people to sit more then it is worthwhile! But I see enough chest puffing on the 'net as it is with regards to people's meditation, and how amazing they are now because of it or how much they are sitting, and it makes me feel ill. Your practice should be personal, for you (and the big you) and should be a part of your Bodhisattva work, not a device used to enlarge your ego.
  - grandpa 15y ago
    What is Bodhisattva work? Is it the idea that by meditating, you're making the world a better place?
  - kstenerud 15y ago
    "Your practice should be personal, for you (and the big you) and should be a part of your Bodhisattva work, not a device used to enlarge your ego." Why not? People train at the gym to better themselves (and thus enlarge their ego). Why should meditation be any different?
rsanheim 15y ago
Of course, the very idea of tracking and working on "improving" via meditation goes against the core idea of zen meditation itself. But I'm interested in your startup anyway. :) edit: in fairness, there are many types of meditation beyond zen.
- rd108 15y ago
  Yes, we have started building a database of many different styles of meditation, but the work is just beginning. There's so much we don't know yet! Thank you for the feedback
- nimblegorilla 15y ago
  Isn't enlightenment the ultimate form of self improvement? Maybe you are practicing a different form of Zen than what I am used to. I don't think tracking itself is anti-Zen, but stressing out about your measurements would be. (also worrying about what is and is not Zen seems anti-Zen).
  - xavoy 15y ago
    If you're aiming for enlightenment, you've missed the mark :)
- VMG 15y ago
  > Of course, the very idea of tracking and working on "improving" via meditation goes against the core idea of zen meditation itself. The - excuse me - postmodern gobbledygook of some schools are is what has turned me off meditation again and again. I'd love to follow a rationalist, scientific school of meditation that has mind improvement as a goal.
  - asmala 15y ago
    In that case Daniel Ingram's book Mastering the Core Teachings on the Buddha might be a good place to start. I think it's also important not to throw away the baby with the bath water; just because the techniques are explained in an archaic language and seemingly inseparable from a traditionalist cultural tradition, doesn't mean they do not produce results. Still probably a good idea to start with something easily approachable so you can start to discern what's effective and what's just cultural cargo culting.

timsally 15y ago

Can anyone find a copy of the paper? I haven't been able to dig one up.

lije 15y ago
I don't think it's out yet. PNAS publications come out every Tuesday so maybe it'll be out in tomorrow's issue.

jessriedel 15y ago

The real question is whether it's a good thing to stop "mind wandering" when it hasn't reached the level of disorder. From the perspective of evolution, it almost certainly has a purpose. Paul Graham pointed out that its probably useful for problem solving: http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html I wonder if it would be good to have the ability to better focus one's self when one's mind is wandering into unproductive subjects (e.g. agonizing over an ex) without necessarily getting to the point where your default mode has been changed so much as to prevent insights in the shower (and instead being deeply aware of the hot water).

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- unignorant 15y ago
  > Bringing the mind to its unmoved state, a state of no-thought, leads to an indescribable bliss. Do you have evidence to support this claim? I can empty my mind, and it is not blissful. It is nothing. > A wandering mind is more prone to distraction, which can be fatal. Assuming, of course, we are speaking of survival factors. Tradeoffs. Personally, I would want to be distracted by an event that might otherwise prove fatal.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - jessriedel 15y ago
      >This empty state of mind allows for better problem-solving This is the claim I'd like evidence for.
      - WayneDB 15y ago
        I'm not aware of any studies here, but it's been said many times that solutions to tough problems often present themselves while the ponderer isn't thinking about the problem, sometimes upon waking up or just before falling asleep.

programnature 15y ago

A bunch of the people FMRI'd in this study were pulled from the pragmatic dharma movement: http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2011/04/pragmatic-dharma-on-rise.html http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2011/04/pragmatic-dha...

cmer 15y ago

I'm getting increasingly interested in meditation, mainly because it seems like it could make me use my brain better. I have no clue where to start though. Anyone has info to share? I'm a total noob to this. Thanks!

omarchowdhury 15y ago
I recommend Patanjali's Yoga Sutras: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/patanjal/patanyog.htm http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/patanjal/patanyog.htm A simpler approach: http://www.movingintostillness.com/meditation.html http://www.movingintostillness.com/meditation.html Keywords: Raja Yoga, Kundalini Yoga, Hatha Yoga, Laya Yoga, Mantra Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Jhana, Samadhi
WayneDB 15y ago
Please read my other comment on this thread with some links to articles that might interest you. - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264078 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264078 Krishnamurti has a lot to say about meditation, I also recommend the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, the Bhagavad Gita (Jack Hawley translation is very thorough, it's subtitled A Walkthrough for Westerners) and lastly The Upanishads (the one with commentary by Eknath Easwaran is excellent.)
- cmer 15y ago
  Great information in that other comment of yours. When you say "yoga", is it what ladies do following a DVD or is it some other form of meditation I am not aware of?
  - rd108 15y ago
    traditionally, yoga referred to both preliminary physical practice ("what ladies do" or hatha yoga) as well as mental practice ("meditation" or raja yoga). The two were inextricably linked, where the former was practiced for the sole purpose of preparing the body for long, seated meditation.
  - Alex3917 15y ago

WayneDB 15y ago

I learned to meditate by reading and listening to Krishnamurti (among many others). "Meditation is not different from daily life" he says. "It can be done all day." It's exactly like being in the zone that you get into when you code, play video games, run, exercise, etc. You can do it better and without needing a crutch activity by consciously shaping your thought/energy patterns; by constantly focus your mind on pure observance and acceptance of all that exists in the current moment without allowing "I/me/mine/he said/she said" ego thoughts to take over (by simply realizing and reaffirming that those thoughts are devoid of value). The ego driven thoughts go away after consistent practice, as does the suffering associated with such thoughts. Seriously, if you are sensitive to "what so-and-so said about you on Facebook, or what your rivals, boss, friends, etc think" or if your brain just races and races away into the night and you can't seem to shut it down...meditation is the best way to fix all that. Get in the non-ego zone and just stay there all day. And do some exercise, preferably Yoga which is all about balance, which is what life and your mind and consciousness are all about. Don't think about it or "try" or plan or obsess over how it's going to change your life or what people will think about it. Just say this is what I'm doing now and go ahead and do it without ego. It is a huge relief. http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-daily-quote/20091119.php?t=Meditation http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-dai... http://www.krishnamurtiaustralia.org/articles/meditation%201.htm http://www.krishnamurtiaustralia.org/articles/meditation%201...

tokenadult 15y ago
by constantly focus your mind on pure observance and acceptance of all that exists in the current moment I'd like to follow up, please, on what these words mean. Does "acceptance of all that exists in the current moment" mean that demonstrators at Tahrir Square should be accepting of a dictatorial government? I'm curious about this issue, because I lived for several years in a predominantly Buddhist country that was a dictatorship the first time I lived there. I (and other Americans who lived there) often wondered why the common people in that country put up with the dictatorship for so long. Is there a limit beyond which acceptance stops? When a person is out of the state of "constantly focus your mind on pure observance and acceptance of all that exists in the current moment," what comes next? What actions do people take to grapple with problems on the basis of such shaping of thought patterns? I'm curious about this, so I appreciate any response you have to these questions.

xavoy 15y ago

Meditation isn't about tuning OUT, it's about tuning IN. Also, it's not 'suppressing' anything, it's just not paying the 'me' thoughts the attention you normally would.

nate 15y ago

My wife just bought me a beginner's mediation class at the Peace School in Chicago. We just finished our third class. I'll write up a few notes about it later this week on my blog (http://n8.tumblr.com http://n8.tumblr.com). But it's been pretty cool and positive. I'm surprised how challenging it is to even meditate for 5 minutes a day. Here's a good book I've been enjoying on the brain that introduces some meditation stuff and benefits http://www.amazon.com/Train-Your-Brain-Get-Happy/dp/1440511810 http://www.amazon.com/Train-Your-Brain-Get-Happy/dp/14405118...

tokenadult 15y ago

After reading this press release carefully, I notice that the paper mentioned in the press release was submitted to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, which is essentially a publication that accepts most submissions from members of the "club," that is the National Academy. I wonder what additional steps would have to be taken to produce a paper that could get published in a more stringently reviewed journal. While we all look up other literature on the subject, I thought it would be a good idea here to mention once again my favorite hacker's guide to how to read research reports, by Peter Norvig, director of research at Google: http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html

epistasis 15y ago
It's a mistake to assume that this was not peer reviewed. The PNAS has two tracks, stringent peer review and direct submission from members of the National Academy of Sciences. Every article is labelled as to whether it was reviewed or not, and the vast majority of PNAS articles I see are peer reviewed. Those articles that go through peer-review are typically of extremely high quality and impact; it takes a very strong paper to make it through peer review at PNAS, typically.

tygorius 15y ago

It would be nice to see the article itself. I would be curious to see how/if they controlled for selection bias. That is, the summary indicates they took images of the brains of novices and experienced meditators. It does not indicate that they took images tracking changes in brain activity as people progressed from novice to experienced. I'm not saying that it's implausible that neuroplasticity effects can be found in the default mode network, just that those with the strongest symptoms might not easily (or ever) get to the "experienced" stage and the implied relief.

tuckbuck 15y ago

Meditation is a very personal ,inner endeavour. As Shunryu Suzuki says, the moment you see a Buddha,you should kill him.(ie you are the only Buddha you should look up to). Iam not sure how tools like brainbot can really help in a personal journey. One needs to just do it !!

gojomo 15y ago

Meditation affects people differently; for a few people it is associated with seizures or other problems. See this article for more info: http://www.sfweekly.com/content/printVersion/313883 http://www.sfweekly.com/content/printVersion/313883

xavoy 15y ago
That article highlights the need for having a good teacher, and teaching meditation together with ethical guidelines. It also smells very much like someone has something to lose by meditations rising popularity (ie, drug companies pushing the mentioned Prozac). It's full of slimy, non commital wording (like many, a lot and some) and also full of experiences that are made to sound terribly negative but don't really matter at all. Meditation _can_ make you hallucinate, it _can_ make you burst into tears or fits of laughter, it can do a lot of things (although I've never known meditation to CAUSE seizures?! Come on... Show me some proof of that.) That is why working with a _good_ teacher is very important. In their 40+ years of experience, they've been there. You have to apply to go on our retreats, and if a teacher, for whatever reason, doesn't think it's a good idea that you go, then he or she will encourage you not to and if it was required would prevent you from going, although I've never known it to come to this. There are probably people that need to go to a counselor, therapist or psychologist before sitting with themselves for long periods. Furthermore (and in my humble opinion) you should get the hell away from any meditation teacher that implies you're channeling a spirit guide or speaking to God. There's some fruity 'Guru's' out there. Do your research. Don't believe or expect miracles. Don't submit to anyone. Act ethically at all times and take some responsibility for your own actions.

ypcx 15y ago

[I'm sleepy so bear with me.] Meditation is extremely easy - for a while. I'm interested in it, I try to do it regularly, but it's not easy to return to it every day, or during a busy day. We see a news article about it, we talk about it, some of us will try it for a while, but in a month from now, all of us will be at the same point as right now - not doing it anymore. It's hard to stress how important is to practice regularly, as then it starts to be really effective. In my life, I'm returning to meditation in waves, in short periods of practice, but for some (possibly material, possibly immaterial) reason, I want more. My aim is to find a way how to meditate sustainably, with the least effort, and how to remind oneself every day that he should meditate. Mind you, I don't know if this is even viable, as sometimes your mind revolts, and when it does, it will (on the background) use your best intelligence and creativity to avoid the practice. I think that not even smartphone apps can help you in this regard. Speaking of which, so far I've seen two worth mentioning (I haven't tried them yet), this one for iPhone http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/lotus-bud-meditation-timer/id441875698?ls=1&mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/lotus-bud-meditation-timer/id... and this one for Android https://market.android.com/details?id=com.nwalex.meditation https://market.android.com/details?id=com.nwalex.meditation. But as I said, I'm not sure these can help in a long run. The problem is that as you keep practicing (internal-awareness) meditation regularly, it will change your external reality (a.k.a. your life) very profoundly, only making it harder to keep practicing every day. There's a lot more to write about this, I could go on and on for many more pages - distractions, formal vs informal, beating your daily energy deficiency, cheating the thought-switching mechanism that makes you day-dream during meditation, etc.. but I want to put this in a readable and practically usable form first, if that is possible at all. (Edit: oh, and it must be a very short form - if you write a book about meditation, then - I believe - you have already failed to deliver what matters, as in that case the reader will simply get satisfied/their energy depleted with the reading itself, and their focus moves to something else.)

xavoy 15y ago
I use the iPhone app called 'Soto Timer' when I'm away. It's free and allows you to configure multiple periods (so you can sit, rest or kinhin, sit, rest or kinhin etc) Sitting every day is most important. There is no substitute for this. A good way to convince yourself of the benefits, and to reinvigorate your practice, is to throw yourself into the deep end and do a retreat. The 'container' of a 'retreat' (retreat is an inadequate word, if you've ever done a proper retreat you'll know why) allows you to sit for extended periods and remain mindful when doing other simple activities like cutting food for your lunch. As you said though, meditation is a 'practice'. There is no 'attainment' - if you're not practicing, the benefits are basically nil. As such, you need to practice for it to be worthwhile. The best time to sit is first thing in the morning. Set your alarm, get out of bed (no excuses) and sit down. This is good for two reasons. 1) if you do nothing else all day, at least you've done your meditation and 2) as you've not had a chance to distract yourself yet, you're more likely to remain present. Of course you'll distract yourself with your plans for your day and convince yourself that you don't have time for this, that you're too tired, but these are just stories like all the others you tell yourself. Let them go, and return to your breath, again and again and again.

itmag 15y ago

I am a self-help junky, and I am trying to get started with meditation currently. Here's a bunch of meditations I found, from the author of "Buddha's Brain": https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/ https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/ His web site: http://www.wisebrain.org/ http://www.wisebrain.org/

kahawe 15y ago

An interesting detail to add: at least one mental health expert has told me that meditating on a regular basis can be a very powerful tool for fighting depressions and other psychological issues; the number of patients suffering from those issues amongst people who have been meditating for years seem to be extremely low. Now a question for all you hackers: how to get started on meditating without running into the arms of some obscure cults and sects? And pointers?

joshcorbin 15y ago
For me I've found these two websites to be helpful: * http://www.audiodharma.org http://www.audiodharma.org -- podcasts, including introduction to mindfullness meditation * http://www.accesstoinsight.org http://www.accesstoinsight.org -- translations of the Pali canon
gnaffle 15y ago
I found this to be a good introduction: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
- vidarh 15y ago
  Second Mindfulness in Plain English. It is excellent, and though written by a Buddhist monk it is for the most part careful about separating the (little) material on Buddhism out as mostly contextual information, and point out that it is not necessary for the meditation practice itself. I also recommend a series of podcasts by Gil Fronsdal at Audiodharma called Introduction to Meditation: http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/ http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/ It covers largely the same approach as Mindfulness in Plain English and fits great in with the book. It contains a series of short guided meditations. It is also "cult free". While Fronsdal is Buddhist, he deliberately makes fun of how being a Buddhist or knowing much about Buddhism isn't necessary, for example by pointing out how mindfulness meditation is being taught as a stress reduction technique at places like Kaiser but "without mentioning the B-word", and that's about the full extent of the mention of Buddhism in the recordings.