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The GDPR cookie pop-ups that make navigation on mobile often nearly impossible was a major assault in the remaining open web. The EU bureaucrats that drafted it

by cft 4y ago

The GDPR cookie pop-ups that make navigation on mobile often nearly impossible was a major assault in the remaining open web. The EU bureaucrats that drafted it never created anything constructive in their lives, only regulated. As a result, less and less of the independent web is getting traffic, everything is consolidating in TikTok, Instagram and similar apps

mrweasel 4y ago
That honestly just poor UX. But fair enough, there either aren’t many talented UX/UI designer, or companies aren’t using them.
matkoniecz 4y ago
> As a result, less and less of the independent web is getting traffic Tracking cookies are not mandatory. You are not obligated to present cookie banner: you can simply drop nonessential cookies.
- cft 4y ago
  Getting money for running websites is also non-mandatory? Are we going to fund them from the government 5-year plans yet? Our hosting expenses alone are 8k per month.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    > Getting money for running websites is also non-mandatory? Correct. I've only run a handful of websites in my life, but not one of them has ever served ads.
  - matkoniecz 4y ago
    Github.com is example of website capable of limiting themself to nonessential cookies.
  - PeterisP 4y ago
    People have a right to privacy. Your business doesn't have a right to profit. It's that simple. If following the requirements of society makes your business unprofitable, too bad, having a business is optional, following the requirements of society is not.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    You can serve ads without tracking users across sites/apps to gain revenue. Not to mention other income generating activities such as partnerships, subscriptions, donations, etc.
    - cft 4y ago
      Those ads will give you 10% of the RPM of the ads that track.
      - hedora 4y ago
        Publishers get 96% as much revenue per impression for non-targeted display ads: https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/31/targeted-ads-offer-little-extra-value-for-online-publishers-study-suggests/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/31/targeted-ads-offer-little-... The ad networks get a lot more for tracking based ads, and the advertisers supposedly get more conversions (though targeting fraud is a real, well-documented thing).
      - denton-scratch 4y ago
        Fencing stolen car stereos provides a better return than retailing legit electronics. Does that make laws against receiving stolen property an infringement of your freedom to do business? I don't have much sympathy for your predicament. Perhaps the market has a better use for your hosting facility than pumping out ads and tracking scripts.
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    > Getting money for running websites is also non-mandatory? Your business problems aren't our concern. If you're financing your business by stealing personal information from users and selling it to data brokers, then you're a crook. Crooks tend to have high hosting expenses.
    - cft 4y ago
      "Our" as in Robespierre's Committee of Public Safety concern? What do you know about hosting expenses? I have been running a website that you know and use with 100m users since 2004!
      - ohgodplsno 4y ago
        The CSP has never been Robespierre's "property" and took decisions as a, well, committee. And yes, your expenses aren't our problem. Don't run a website if you can't pay for it.
      - denton-scratch 4y ago
        > I have been running a website that you know and use with 100m users since 2004 The only website that you know I use is this one. Are you saying that you run HN? I do not think you are that person. If that's not the site you're referring to, I'm rather curious to know what site it is that you run, that's had 100m users since 2004(!), that can correlate a site user with this HN user. Will you tell, please?
      - int_19h 4y ago
        "Our" as in all the people who don't want to be tracked.
  - throw_a_grenade 4y ago
    Yes, it's not mandatory. In fact, running sites themselves is not mandatory, so if you can't find a way to run a site which respects its users, then I'd argue you should fail. That's the free market at its finest.
denton-scratch 4y ago
They are not GDPR "cookie pop-ups". GDPR does not call for this plague. You don't need to get the users approval for cookies needed for the correct operation of the site. I believe they are a protest by largely US-owned companies against regulation, designed to annoy internet users and turn them against regulation.
- orangecat 4y ago
  I believe they are a protest by largely US-owned companies against regulation Even if this is true, it's something that should have been expected by EU legislators. Their beliefs seem to be that companies are acting in bad faith by secretly tracking users and misusing the information that they gather (basically true), and also that if they impose vague rules that companies need to get consent for tracking then they'll act in good faith and give users clear and convenient ways of opting out (ha ha ha).
  - PeterisP 4y ago
    Much of this brouhaha is about the niche of online businesses, which is the thing that's most visible here on HN, but which really wasn't the primary focus of GDPR which applies to all the businesses in society, the vast majority of which aren't global websites. If I look at the changes implemented by local telecommunications companies, local banks, local supermarket loyalty programs, local pizza delivery chains, local real estate brokers, etc - these types of businesses had all kinds of widespread shenanigans before GDPR, but now they overwhelmingly have acted in good faith, and have given users clear and convenient ways of opting out (because, really, they didn't have a choice). Like, we don't see EU phone carriers selling location data to advertisers the way they do in USA - now that is a significant thing compared to some blog putting on a cookie. For most companies, the transition has happened reasonably well - it's just that a few (but large and highly visible) global companies are holding out because of political reasons preventing enforcement - mostly stemming the fact that Ireland's DPA is currently permitted to unilaterally shield them from the rest of EU and has motivation to do it because it's financially beneficial for Ireland to have Facebook/Google/etc have their EU domicile be in Ireland.
  - 4y ago

by cft 4y ago

mrweasel 4y ago

That honestly just poor UX. But fair enough, there either aren’t many talented UX/UI designer, or companies aren’t using them.

matkoniecz 4y ago

> As a result, less and less of the independent web is getting traffic Tracking cookies are not mandatory. You are not obligated to present cookie banner: you can simply drop nonessential cookies.

cft 4y ago
Getting money for running websites is also non-mandatory? Are we going to fund them from the government 5-year plans yet? Our hosting expenses alone are 8k per month.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  > Getting money for running websites is also non-mandatory? Correct. I've only run a handful of websites in my life, but not one of them has ever served ads.
- matkoniecz 4y ago
  Github.com is example of website capable of limiting themself to nonessential cookies.
- PeterisP 4y ago
  People have a right to privacy. Your business doesn't have a right to profit. It's that simple. If following the requirements of society makes your business unprofitable, too bad, having a business is optional, following the requirements of society is not.
- sofixa 4y ago
  You can serve ads without tracking users across sites/apps to gain revenue. Not to mention other income generating activities such as partnerships, subscriptions, donations, etc.
  - cft 4y ago
    Those ads will give you 10% of the RPM of the ads that track.
    - hedora 4y ago
      Publishers get 96% as much revenue per impression for non-targeted display ads: https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/31/targeted-ads-offer-little-extra-value-for-online-publishers-study-suggests/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/31/targeted-ads-offer-little-... The ad networks get a lot more for tracking based ads, and the advertisers supposedly get more conversions (though targeting fraud is a real, well-documented thing).
    - denton-scratch 4y ago
      Fencing stolen car stereos provides a better return than retailing legit electronics. Does that make laws against receiving stolen property an infringement of your freedom to do business? I don't have much sympathy for your predicament. Perhaps the market has a better use for your hosting facility than pumping out ads and tracking scripts.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  > Getting money for running websites is also non-mandatory? Your business problems aren't our concern. If you're financing your business by stealing personal information from users and selling it to data brokers, then you're a crook. Crooks tend to have high hosting expenses.
  - cft 4y ago
    "Our" as in Robespierre's Committee of Public Safety concern? What do you know about hosting expenses? I have been running a website that you know and use with 100m users since 2004!
    - ohgodplsno 4y ago
      The CSP has never been Robespierre's "property" and took decisions as a, well, committee. And yes, your expenses aren't our problem. Don't run a website if you can't pay for it.
    - denton-scratch 4y ago
      > I have been running a website that you know and use with 100m users since 2004 The only website that you know I use is this one. Are you saying that you run HN? I do not think you are that person. If that's not the site you're referring to, I'm rather curious to know what site it is that you run, that's had 100m users since 2004(!), that can correlate a site user with this HN user. Will you tell, please?
    - int_19h 4y ago
      "Our" as in all the people who don't want to be tracked.
- throw_a_grenade 4y ago
  Yes, it's not mandatory. In fact, running sites themselves is not mandatory, so if you can't find a way to run a site which respects its users, then I'd argue you should fail. That's the free market at its finest.

denton-scratch 4y ago

They are not GDPR "cookie pop-ups". GDPR does not call for this plague. You don't need to get the users approval for cookies needed for the correct operation of the site. I believe they are a protest by largely US-owned companies against regulation, designed to annoy internet users and turn them against regulation.

orangecat 4y ago
I believe they are a protest by largely US-owned companies against regulation Even if this is true, it's something that should have been expected by EU legislators. Their beliefs seem to be that companies are acting in bad faith by secretly tracking users and misusing the information that they gather (basically true), and also that if they impose vague rules that companies need to get consent for tracking then they'll act in good faith and give users clear and convenient ways of opting out (ha ha ha).
- PeterisP 4y ago
  Much of this brouhaha is about the niche of online businesses, which is the thing that's most visible here on HN, but which really wasn't the primary focus of GDPR which applies to all the businesses in society, the vast majority of which aren't global websites. If I look at the changes implemented by local telecommunications companies, local banks, local supermarket loyalty programs, local pizza delivery chains, local real estate brokers, etc - these types of businesses had all kinds of widespread shenanigans before GDPR, but now they overwhelmingly have acted in good faith, and have given users clear and convenient ways of opting out (because, really, they didn't have a choice). Like, we don't see EU phone carriers selling location data to advertisers the way they do in USA - now that is a significant thing compared to some blog putting on a cookie. For most companies, the transition has happened reasonably well - it's just that a few (but large and highly visible) global companies are holding out because of political reasons preventing enforcement - mostly stemming the fact that Ireland's DPA is currently permitted to unilaterally shield them from the rest of EU and has motivation to do it because it's financially beneficial for Ireland to have Facebook/Google/etc have their EU domicile be in Ireland.
- 4y ago