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>>massive ponzi scheme I am pretty sure that is the case for almost all the economies of the world that are based on fiat currency combined with debt fueled gr

>>massive ponzi scheme I am pretty sure that is the case for almost all the economies of the world that are based on fiat currency combined with debt fueled growth. Which is pretty much all of them. At some point this dangerous game of musical chairs of sovereign debt will end, and it will be bad for all of humanity

orwin 4y ago
But no. Money is just a way invented to distribute production that human society invented. Debt is a mercantile, then capitalist tool to push toward creating productive assets (see venitian shipowners or textile factories before the industrial revolution). It now have new use with the banking system, but obligations are still basically the same. Also, while i would rather we don't use debt, it's not at all fueling growth. Growth is fueled by energy use (productivity increase is marginal at best), and growth create liquidity needs, which is either resolved by money printing or by debt. So it's backward.
fny 4y ago
We've been here before many times in history. Some debt gets repaid, some is inflated away, some defaults. The real crisis won't be in developed countries because whether you like it or not, you need to borrow and spend in their fiat to do business and EVERYONE wants to do business in developed countries. The crisis will be in emerging markets where no one will be willing to lend if rates hit 5% in the US.
skywal_l 4y ago
This is the case for any economy which relies on the easy extraction of cheap but ultimately finite energy/resources. Debt is a human constraints that could be erased by a the stroke of a pen. Sure with political consequences, but civilization have endured these kind of consequences before. Debt have been erased, new currencies erected. Once you run out of oil though... You can't legislate for tractors to run on good will to feed the planet. I am way more worried of actual physical constraints and the consequences of reaching them (ecosystem collapse, political extremism, wars) than our self imposed idiotic economic models.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  The problem with the believe that debt can be "erased by a the stroke of a pen with political consequences" is that those consequences would be far more than just political. Wars start over less, political extremism is driven by those kind of actions. Actions like that always have winners and losers.

orwin 4y ago

But no. Money is just a way invented to distribute production that human society invented. Debt is a mercantile, then capitalist tool to push toward creating productive assets (see venitian shipowners or textile factories before the industrial revolution). It now have new use with the banking system, but obligations are still basically the same. Also, while i would rather we don't use debt, it's not at all fueling growth. Growth is fueled by energy use (productivity increase is marginal at best), and growth create liquidity needs, which is either resolved by money printing or by debt. So it's backward.

fny 4y ago

We've been here before many times in history. Some debt gets repaid, some is inflated away, some defaults. The real crisis won't be in developed countries because whether you like it or not, you need to borrow and spend in their fiat to do business and EVERYONE wants to do business in developed countries. The crisis will be in emerging markets where no one will be willing to lend if rates hit 5% in the US.

skywal_l 4y ago

This is the case for any economy which relies on the easy extraction of cheap but ultimately finite energy/resources. Debt is a human constraints that could be erased by a the stroke of a pen. Sure with political consequences, but civilization have endured these kind of consequences before. Debt have been erased, new currencies erected. Once you run out of oil though... You can't legislate for tractors to run on good will to feed the planet. I am way more worried of actual physical constraints and the consequences of reaching them (ecosystem collapse, political extremism, wars) than our self imposed idiotic economic models.

phpisthebest 4y ago
The problem with the believe that debt can be "erased by a the stroke of a pen with political consequences" is that those consequences would be far more than just political. Wars start over less, political extremism is driven by those kind of actions. Actions like that always have winners and losers.