6 ms·
That's how it goes: make people feel better by imposing visible but ineffective restrictions, meanwhile allow the worst offenders to continue operating as usual
by karaterobot 4y ago
That's how it goes: make people feel better by imposing visible but ineffective restrictions, meanwhile allow the worst offenders to continue operating as usual. So much of environmental regulation works by acts of meaningless public guilt and contrition: cf. bans on plastic shopping bags and drinking straws. Of course I mean "works" in the sense of operation, not in the sense of success, because in the meantime things get worse.
- vippy 4y agoI don't know where you live, but I see many fewer plastic bags drifting like so many tumbleweeds since the imposition of plastic bag fees and taxes where I live.
- SoftTalker 4y agoThat's likely true, but what change has been made in the total volume of plastic waste produced in the area? Possibly/probably very little. It's an example of doing something easy and visibly noticable, but ultimately inconsequential, to create the illusion of solving a problem.
- pclmulqdq 4y agoIn Australia, when they did a plastic bag ban, the total volume of plastic waste actually went up. Instead of using flimsy grocery bags for their household trash, people were now using thicker dedicated trash bags. Those thin bags are some of the most re-used plastic out there.
- lillecarl 4y agoOur dedicated trash bags are thinner than what used to be in the store for your groceries.
- Chilko 4y agoYep same in New Zealand, as much as I hate it we now buy dedicated bin bags for our kitchen bin and others as it works the best for our flat. In the past this was never an issue. However, urban plastic pollution has definitely decreased. We do often now have an excess of paper bags in our house as people tend to forget their reusable bags and we don't have as many uses for the paper ones. At least they can be recycled.
- pclmulqdq 4y agoThe problem is the carbon footprint. Those paper bags have the carbon footprint of 5-10 plastic bags. Re-usable bags, depending on the material, are 200-1000 plastic bags worth of carbon.
- j-bos 4y agoMe too, but I'm not aware of any fees for bags at the stores.
- metadat 4y agoYou must not live in California..
- karaterobot 4y agoSure, but the stated purpose of these bans was not to reduce the number of plastic bags we see, it was to reduce plastic pollution. That would make you think that plastic bags were the most important source of post-consumer plastic pollution, which they aren't — plastic packaging is. For marine microplastics ("the pacific garbage patch") the main sources are things like textiles, car tires, and of course fishing nets. The thinking seems to be "well, it would be hard to eliminate those sources, so let's make it so you don't see as many plastic garbage bags drifting around, and it'll look like we did something meaningful."
- recursive 4y agoIt seems to have absolutely reduced urban plastic pollution. I'd call it a win.
- mechagodzilla 4y agoMy town banned single-use plastic bags and I went from picking 1-2 out of my yard every week to pretty much zero immediately. It definitely didn’t solve every problem, but I agree it definitely made a problem a lot better.
- 1_1xdev 4y agoHalf measures still do _something_ They did reduce plastic pollution, as you admit. Was it the most effective regulation to pass to reduce plastic pollution by the greatest possible amount? Not at all
- LawTalkingGuy 4y agoThey're often counterproductive. People feel accomplished, and finished with the half-measures and they often don't bother investigating the results or the ongoing requirements.
- SantalBlush 4y agoI'm not sure that this is true. Maybe you could give some evidence that this is the most common outcome.
- icelancer 4y agoThis is a great example of regulations that feel good but are probably net negative. Paper bags require more energy and are worse for the environment than plastic bags on net [0][1]. Reusable bags are improperly sanitized and typically quite dirty, something that was pretty relevant in 2020 (and theoretically going forward). [2] [0]: https://ecomyths.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/scho0711buan-e-e.pdf https://ecomyths.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/scho0711buan... [1]: https://cascade.uoregon.edu/fall2012/expert/expert-article/ https://cascade.uoregon.edu/fall2012/expert/expert-article/ [2]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-plastic-bag-ban-backfires-11584399666 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-plastic-bag-ban-backfires-1...
- mr_toad 4y agoWalking down the street a few days ago I saw someone had put out an entire trash bag full of reusable bags.
- wudangmonk 4y agoI don't think they have ever added one of these useless restrictions on California yet it's been mostly posturing. They blame the lawn, and you have people peacocking about their dry lawns in an effort to gain social brownie points. I'm surprised they still blame the lawn and havent moved on to pools or something more easily associated with wealth to really try and stir the poor vs rich debate. Meanwhile even if no grass was ever watered and no pool was ever filled it would amount to absolutely nothing since those things are measured in billions but the water used by farms is measured in trillions.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago"... you have people peacocking about their dry lawns in an effort to gain social brownie points". Nicely done!
- notyourwork 4y agoThat last sentence blew my mind.
- mistersquid 4y ago> I'm surprised they still blame the lawn and havent moved on to pools or something more easily associated with wealth to really try and stir the poor vs rich debate. I understand these figures may not mean anything because private individuals consume relatively imperceptible amounts of water compared to (the agriculture) industry. But reflect for a moment that Kim Kardashian blew through over one quarter million gallons of water in June. [0] (There are other offending celebrities listed in that article. Kardashian is the most egregious of them.) I’m all for restricting and regulating agricultural waste of water. But surely some attention should be given to flagrant offenders among individual citizens. [0] https://www.npr.org/2022/08/24/1119112184/kim-kardashian-kevin-hart-dwyane-wade-water-usage-violation https://www.npr.org/2022/08/24/1119112184/kim-kardashian-kev...
- barry-cotter 4y agoNo. There’s an extremely simple way to solve this problem that would work; Everyone pays the same price for water. If the government is not going to do that then blame the government.
- hedora 4y agoThe summer after they passed the plastic bag ban, I worked near the SF bay. Nearly every day, I'd watch a garbage scow go out full, and come back empty. I often wonder if those scows are still operating. I'd guess one load put as much plastic in the bay as a year of litter.
- darkteflon 4y agoYou’re saying the city is dumping plastic in the bay? I may be misunderstanding your comment.
- hedora 4y agoSomeone definitely used to, even after the bag ban. No idea if they still do.