8 ms·

Why none of my books are available on Audible

133 points by herbertl 4y ago

d0mine 4y ago
The real question is that it is an incident that one interest group managed to pass the law that is against interests of most people.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  The interest group that managed to pass the law has all the money.
5co 4y ago
mysterydip 4y ago
> Scammers claiming to have the rights to my books commission narrators to record them on the cheap, with the promise of a royalty split when they are live. Inexperienced narrators, excited at the prospect of recording a major book by a bestselling author, put long, grueling hours into recording them. Then the book goes live, and I discover it, and have it taken down. The scammer disappears with the profits from the sales in the interim, and the narrator is screwed. If I was a narrator, why wouldn't I do a basic search to see if the audiobook exists, or contact the author/publisher to verify ownership rights, before investing all this time and effort because someone said they own something?
- loloquwowndueo 4y ago
  99% of scams work because the scammee didn’t do due diligence. “Why wouldn’t you check property records to see if the person renting you that sweet apartment actually owns it?” Sounds like common sense yet people fall for this scam all the time.
  - idontwantthis 4y ago
    Because most people do check and a scam only occurs if one person doesn’t.
    - jiggunjer 4y ago
      At the very least you'd check their ID so the police has something to go on. And don't pay cash.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  Simply because it would never occur to you that it could be part of a scam. We're trained to think of scams as involving Nigerian princes, misspelled e-mails, password phishing, .exe attachments, or "I've got a bridge to sell you". It's nowhere near obvious how contracting an audiobook narration, of all things, could or would be a scam. You'd have to know there was a market/scam for counterfeit audiobooks which I never imagined until I read this. In fact, it's pretty convoluted and I'm still pretty surprised to discover it exists. On top of which, contacting an author isn't always easy, and figuring out how to navigate from a publisher's consumer customer service to a person who can actually correctly verify rights is probably going to be a long annoying journey.
quxbar 4y ago
I am mystified by the idea that 'the scammer disappears' - does Amazon do zero vetting of people they pay out money to? Can I continually commit copyright fraud for profit on the most popular audiobook site?
- moomin 4y ago
  Bluntly, yes. Although you probably need to practice some OpSec and operate from a country where it’ll be hard to pursue you.
Mordisquitos 4y ago
I very much agree with him regarding DRM, and I understand why it puts him off launching audiobooks on Audible. Still, it is worth commenting that there are trivial ways to remove DRM from Audible files. I myself do it to my own collection, partly out of "lockout prevention", and partly so that I can listen to the books using apps that I find infinitely more covenient and feature rich than Audible's own (shout-out to Podcast Addict). I won't detail how it is done, out of respect for the fact that HN is based in a jurisdiction where the DMCA represses free speech on the topic. However, Doctorow could always release his audiobooks on Audible while pointing with plausible deniability towards information on how to remove DRM, hosted from countries where we're lucky enough that talking about technical procedures is not a crime.
- failrate 4y ago
  It is trivial for you, but it is impossible for most audiobook listeners. Most people do not have the same computer wherewithal as us.
  - gwd 4y ago
    I have some friends who are quite non-technical, who told me that they were were aware of (and subsequently purchased) some software that they knew could remove the DRM from Audible books (before I got a chance to tell them I'd be happy to help them out for free).
  - Mordisquitos 4y ago
    Yes, that is why I suggest making the explanation and process more readily available. Non-tech savvy users who already care about the problems of DRM should kmow it is possible to remove it, and ideally have access to a user-friendly way to do it. On the other hand, those who don't even know what DRM is or why it matters may get greater exposure to the issue.
    - failrate 4y ago
      How about this ease of use feature: Audible drops DRM. Everyone wins.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
I missed the call to action. Is there an alternative store the author recommends? A policy cure? Or is this a pure problem statement? (Which is fine.)
- gnomewascool 4y ago
  > Is there an alternative store the author recommends? They mention "Google Books, or Libro.fm, or Downpour" or having your own storefront, but it's mainly a problem statement. > A policy cure? Removing Section 1201 from the DMCA?
- itsoktocry 4y ago
  >Not surprisingly, a lot of people assume that if an Audible search for an author or book comes up empty, that means there is no audiobook available. They don’t think of searching for the book on Google Books, or Libro.fm, or Downpour. They never think to check to see whether the author maintains their own storefront, as I do, where you can get all their ebooks and audiobooks without DRM.
- m4lvin 4y ago
  Cory is sometimes crowdfounding his audiobooks, see the campaign for "Attack Surface" some time ago.
- kybernetikos 4y ago
  Yes I was hoping that he was announcing a collaboration with others with similar problems. One of the things that leads to this kind of abuse is industry dominance, and one of the things that encourages industry dominance is that average consumers don't want to have to think about more than a couple of places to go to get their content. A collaboration of those who have been bitten by audible would be much better than each of them doing their own thing.
exotree 4y ago
“ My agent tells me that if I’d been willing to set aside my ethics and allow Audible to slap DRM on my books, I’d have made enough money to pay off my mortgage and save enough to pay for my kid’s entire college education. That’s a price I’m willing to pay.” I have to be honest and say… I think I would be very frustrated with my spouse if this principle cost us so much potential financial freedom in other parts of our lives. That’s not to say they shouldn’t do this. That would just be hard for me to swallow!
- flycaliguy 4y ago
  Yeah, I’d be tempted to write in a character at the start of each book that just so happens to remove DRM from an audio book.
- itsoktocry 4y ago
  >I think I would be very frustrated with my spouse if this principle cost us so much potential financial freedom in other parts of our lives. This mindset is a driving force behind our corrupt politics: sacrificing morals for money.
  - is_true 4y ago
    He could do the deal with audible and share a "free" version on the high seas.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      That may depend on the terms with Audible.
  - ChildOfChaos 4y ago
    It’s not really a big deal though is it? this person is just being a little weird and stubborn about this. Audible members know what they are getting and choose to do so. Audible DRM is not a big deal, just use this Audible app, some of the arguments made in this article are invalid.
hnrodey 4y ago
Remove DRM from audible book. 1. Sign in to audible.com. 2. Download the book file from your Library (the .aax file). 3. Use https://audible-converter.ml https://audible-converter.ml to generate a version of the ebook absent DRM. All processing happens in the browser.
- swozey 4y ago
  Personally I use https://openaudible.org/ https://openaudible.org/
hkgjjgjfjfjfjf 4y ago
Agingcoder 4y ago
Tangential question (and a serious one, since I'm pretty much baffled by the whole thing) : I don't use audiobooks, since I find them 'slow'. Why do people listen to them instead of reading books? Is it because, say, listening to one while driving is better than not being able to read since you have no time to do so? Or is there a specific pleasure in listening to a book read by someone else?
- mnahkies 4y ago
  I generally favour podcasts over audio books, but generally whether I read or listen on my commute is determined by whether I got a seat on the train - can be difficult to read standing up on a crowded train
- matsemann 4y ago
  I prefer reading books myself, but sometimes the hurdle to actually sit down and read can be a bit big. So while I'm an avid reader, I have bouts where I read nothing at all. Not because of time constraints or anything, just feels a bit heavy starting something new. But listening to something is less of a commitment. As you say, can combine it with something else. So it's a way for me to ease back into reading mode again. Edit: but I would recommend staying away from Audible. When I wanted to take a break from my monthly membership, they forced me to use all tokens I had amassed.
- bikingbismuth 4y ago
  There a lot of times in my day when I can listen to a book (commuting, chores, taking a walk), but not as many when I can sit for a decent amount of time and read (usually around bed time). I do both, and on balance I slightly prefer actually reading myself, but I don’t think of listening to a book as a lesser experience. There are books that are enhanced by a great narrator (Aurora by Kim Stanley Robinson) or the author gives a bit of extra info/context while reading (Good to Great by Jim Collins). Also, Audible has a huge selection of “Great Courses”, which are lectures from professors. Obviously, they aren’t as rigorous as a real college class, but I love being able to listen to 12ish hours of lecture about something I find interesting. I listen to books at 1.2-1.5 speed depending on the narrator and topic, so that helps to not feel “slowed down”.
icyfox 4y ago
Audible has some flagrant dark patterns in their design for consumers as well. While you _could_ buy independent audiobooks at cost, their most popular model is to subscribe to a monthly membership where you earn one credit a month. This monthly credit can buy any audio book. The dig comes if you decide you have too many credits cached. Perhaps because you can't get through one audiobook a month. If you cancel a subscription for an account with remaining credits, you'll lose all your credits. Your choice is to either spend them all at once or keep your account active and keep paying the monthly fee while hoping to eventually pay down the credit debt enough to cancel. The only thing that's compared in my experience is for Adobe Stock.
- edanm 4y ago
  For people like me, who read a lot of books, Audible was and is absolutely wonderful. Audiobooks used to cost like $30-$40 each, at least. With Audible, I pay a monthly fee and get access to books at $10 each. They also routinely have deals selling books for $10, or 2-for-1 deals, etc. The difference in price is huge and a no-brainer if you read a lot of books. Note: I actually do the year-subscription plan, in which you get 24 credits for the cheapest price, to spend during that year. Buying extra credits will give them to you at that low price as well.
- johns 4y ago
  This is not how it works
  - CobaltFire 4y ago
    This is EXACTLY how it works. Any and all credits are lost the instant you unsubscribe; it’s very clear when you do.
- agentwiggles 4y ago
  I really hate the cancellation thing. There's no reason it has to be that way, it's just plain extortion (that might be a bit dramatic of a word for it, but it's the dynamic). I bought a sub a year ago because there was a good deal ($5/mo for 6 months or something). Now I have a pile of credits and a recurring monthly charge. Yeah, I knew what I was getting into, but it's annoying all the same.
hanifbbz 4y ago
Ironically it is paywalled by Medium. Commenting is only allowed when using their app (I'm on phone). Was it intentional? Can someone ping the author and see if they can remove the paywall to increase the blast radius of such an important piece?
- xrd 4y ago
  It's also here: https://craphound.com/news/2022/07/24/why-none-of-my-books-are-available-on-audible/ https://craphound.com/news/2022/07/24/why-none-of-my-books-a... You could write to the author and ask him why he posts on Medium. My bet is that posting in multiple places increases the blast radius.
ldjb 4y ago
"This essay, which I am about to record as an audiobook […], and will thereafter upload to ACX as a self-published, free audiobook." Doctorow seems to have intended to release this audiobook on Audible for free. However, when I look it up on Audible's website, it is on sale for a regular price of £3.69 (or £3.23 / one credit for Audible members). I wonder why this is. This is not a criticism of Doctorow; I think he probably doesn't expect people to actually pay for it, and he's released a DRM-free copy, free of charge. I wonder if this is something that Audible enforces (i.e. they do not normally allow audiobooks to be available free of charge). I have seen some audiobooks available free of charge on Audible, but perhaps those are the exception rather than the rule.
BlindWanderer 4y ago
Just as an FYI. The audible drm is broken (aax & aaxc), ffmpeg can decrypt your books.
marklyon 4y ago
I really like Cory's books, and have even purchased some of his audiobooks from him, but I find that I do 100% of my audiobook listening through Audible. The convenience and massive library that I've amassed as a result of their credit scheme has fully captured me. When I had a standalone music player, it was far easier to deal with random MP3 files.

133 points by herbertl 4y ago

The real question is that it is an incident that one interest group managed to pass the law that is against interests of most people.

Aeolun 4y ago
The interest group that managed to pass the law has all the money.

5co 4y ago

mysterydip 4y ago

> Scammers claiming to have the rights to my books commission narrators to record them on the cheap, with the promise of a royalty split when they are live. Inexperienced narrators, excited at the prospect of recording a major book by a bestselling author, put long, grueling hours into recording them. Then the book goes live, and I discover it, and have it taken down. The scammer disappears with the profits from the sales in the interim, and the narrator is screwed. If I was a narrator, why wouldn't I do a basic search to see if the audiobook exists, or contact the author/publisher to verify ownership rights, before investing all this time and effort because someone said they own something?

loloquwowndueo 4y ago
99% of scams work because the scammee didn’t do due diligence. “Why wouldn’t you check property records to see if the person renting you that sweet apartment actually owns it?” Sounds like common sense yet people fall for this scam all the time.
- idontwantthis 4y ago
  Because most people do check and a scam only occurs if one person doesn’t.
  - jiggunjer 4y ago
    At the very least you'd check their ID so the police has something to go on. And don't pay cash.
crazygringo 4y ago
Simply because it would never occur to you that it could be part of a scam. We're trained to think of scams as involving Nigerian princes, misspelled e-mails, password phishing, .exe attachments, or "I've got a bridge to sell you". It's nowhere near obvious how contracting an audiobook narration, of all things, could or would be a scam. You'd have to know there was a market/scam for counterfeit audiobooks which I never imagined until I read this. In fact, it's pretty convoluted and I'm still pretty surprised to discover it exists. On top of which, contacting an author isn't always easy, and figuring out how to navigate from a publisher's consumer customer service to a person who can actually correctly verify rights is probably going to be a long annoying journey.

quxbar 4y ago

I am mystified by the idea that 'the scammer disappears' - does Amazon do zero vetting of people they pay out money to? Can I continually commit copyright fraud for profit on the most popular audiobook site?

moomin 4y ago
Bluntly, yes. Although you probably need to practice some OpSec and operate from a country where it’ll be hard to pursue you.

Mordisquitos 4y ago

I very much agree with him regarding DRM, and I understand why it puts him off launching audiobooks on Audible. Still, it is worth commenting that there are trivial ways to remove DRM from Audible files. I myself do it to my own collection, partly out of "lockout prevention", and partly so that I can listen to the books using apps that I find infinitely more covenient and feature rich than Audible's own (shout-out to Podcast Addict). I won't detail how it is done, out of respect for the fact that HN is based in a jurisdiction where the DMCA represses free speech on the topic. However, Doctorow could always release his audiobooks on Audible while pointing with plausible deniability towards information on how to remove DRM, hosted from countries where we're lucky enough that talking about technical procedures is not a crime.

failrate 4y ago
It is trivial for you, but it is impossible for most audiobook listeners. Most people do not have the same computer wherewithal as us.
- gwd 4y ago
  I have some friends who are quite non-technical, who told me that they were were aware of (and subsequently purchased) some software that they knew could remove the DRM from Audible books (before I got a chance to tell them I'd be happy to help them out for free).
- Mordisquitos 4y ago
  Yes, that is why I suggest making the explanation and process more readily available. Non-tech savvy users who already care about the problems of DRM should kmow it is possible to remove it, and ideally have access to a user-friendly way to do it. On the other hand, those who don't even know what DRM is or why it matters may get greater exposure to the issue.
  - failrate 4y ago
    How about this ease of use feature: Audible drops DRM. Everyone wins.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

I missed the call to action. Is there an alternative store the author recommends? A policy cure? Or is this a pure problem statement? (Which is fine.)

gnomewascool 4y ago
> Is there an alternative store the author recommends? They mention "Google Books, or Libro.fm, or Downpour" or having your own storefront, but it's mainly a problem statement. > A policy cure? Removing Section 1201 from the DMCA?
itsoktocry 4y ago
>Not surprisingly, a lot of people assume that if an Audible search for an author or book comes up empty, that means there is no audiobook available. They don’t think of searching for the book on Google Books, or Libro.fm, or Downpour. They never think to check to see whether the author maintains their own storefront, as I do, where you can get all their ebooks and audiobooks without DRM.
m4lvin 4y ago
Cory is sometimes crowdfounding his audiobooks, see the campaign for "Attack Surface" some time ago.
kybernetikos 4y ago
Yes I was hoping that he was announcing a collaboration with others with similar problems. One of the things that leads to this kind of abuse is industry dominance, and one of the things that encourages industry dominance is that average consumers don't want to have to think about more than a couple of places to go to get their content. A collaboration of those who have been bitten by audible would be much better than each of them doing their own thing.

exotree 4y ago

“ My agent tells me that if I’d been willing to set aside my ethics and allow Audible to slap DRM on my books, I’d have made enough money to pay off my mortgage and save enough to pay for my kid’s entire college education. That’s a price I’m willing to pay.” I have to be honest and say… I think I would be very frustrated with my spouse if this principle cost us so much potential financial freedom in other parts of our lives. That’s not to say they shouldn’t do this. That would just be hard for me to swallow!

flycaliguy 4y ago
Yeah, I’d be tempted to write in a character at the start of each book that just so happens to remove DRM from an audio book.
itsoktocry 4y ago
>I think I would be very frustrated with my spouse if this principle cost us so much potential financial freedom in other parts of our lives. This mindset is a driving force behind our corrupt politics: sacrificing morals for money.
- is_true 4y ago
  He could do the deal with audible and share a "free" version on the high seas.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    That may depend on the terms with Audible.
- ChildOfChaos 4y ago
  It’s not really a big deal though is it? this person is just being a little weird and stubborn about this. Audible members know what they are getting and choose to do so. Audible DRM is not a big deal, just use this Audible app, some of the arguments made in this article are invalid.

hnrodey 4y ago

Remove DRM from audible book. 1. Sign in to audible.com. 2. Download the book file from your Library (the .aax file). 3. Use https://audible-converter.ml https://audible-converter.ml to generate a version of the ebook absent DRM. All processing happens in the browser.

swozey 4y ago
Personally I use https://openaudible.org/ https://openaudible.org/

hkgjjgjfjfjfjf 4y ago

Agingcoder 4y ago

Tangential question (and a serious one, since I'm pretty much baffled by the whole thing) : I don't use audiobooks, since I find them 'slow'. Why do people listen to them instead of reading books? Is it because, say, listening to one while driving is better than not being able to read since you have no time to do so? Or is there a specific pleasure in listening to a book read by someone else?

mnahkies 4y ago
I generally favour podcasts over audio books, but generally whether I read or listen on my commute is determined by whether I got a seat on the train - can be difficult to read standing up on a crowded train
matsemann 4y ago
I prefer reading books myself, but sometimes the hurdle to actually sit down and read can be a bit big. So while I'm an avid reader, I have bouts where I read nothing at all. Not because of time constraints or anything, just feels a bit heavy starting something new. But listening to something is less of a commitment. As you say, can combine it with something else. So it's a way for me to ease back into reading mode again. Edit: but I would recommend staying away from Audible. When I wanted to take a break from my monthly membership, they forced me to use all tokens I had amassed.
bikingbismuth 4y ago
There a lot of times in my day when I can listen to a book (commuting, chores, taking a walk), but not as many when I can sit for a decent amount of time and read (usually around bed time). I do both, and on balance I slightly prefer actually reading myself, but I don’t think of listening to a book as a lesser experience. There are books that are enhanced by a great narrator (Aurora by Kim Stanley Robinson) or the author gives a bit of extra info/context while reading (Good to Great by Jim Collins). Also, Audible has a huge selection of “Great Courses”, which are lectures from professors. Obviously, they aren’t as rigorous as a real college class, but I love being able to listen to 12ish hours of lecture about something I find interesting. I listen to books at 1.2-1.5 speed depending on the narrator and topic, so that helps to not feel “slowed down”.

icyfox 4y ago

Audible has some flagrant dark patterns in their design for consumers as well. While you _could_ buy independent audiobooks at cost, their most popular model is to subscribe to a monthly membership where you earn one credit a month. This monthly credit can buy any audio book. The dig comes if you decide you have too many credits cached. Perhaps because you can't get through one audiobook a month. If you cancel a subscription for an account with remaining credits, you'll lose all your credits. Your choice is to either spend them all at once or keep your account active and keep paying the monthly fee while hoping to eventually pay down the credit debt enough to cancel. The only thing that's compared in my experience is for Adobe Stock.

edanm 4y ago
For people like me, who read a lot of books, Audible was and is absolutely wonderful. Audiobooks used to cost like $30-$40 each, at least. With Audible, I pay a monthly fee and get access to books at $10 each. They also routinely have deals selling books for $10, or 2-for-1 deals, etc. The difference in price is huge and a no-brainer if you read a lot of books. Note: I actually do the year-subscription plan, in which you get 24 credits for the cheapest price, to spend during that year. Buying extra credits will give them to you at that low price as well.
johns 4y ago
This is not how it works
- CobaltFire 4y ago
  This is EXACTLY how it works. Any and all credits are lost the instant you unsubscribe; it’s very clear when you do.
agentwiggles 4y ago
I really hate the cancellation thing. There's no reason it has to be that way, it's just plain extortion (that might be a bit dramatic of a word for it, but it's the dynamic). I bought a sub a year ago because there was a good deal ($5/mo for 6 months or something). Now I have a pile of credits and a recurring monthly charge. Yeah, I knew what I was getting into, but it's annoying all the same.

hanifbbz 4y ago

Ironically it is paywalled by Medium. Commenting is only allowed when using their app (I'm on phone). Was it intentional? Can someone ping the author and see if they can remove the paywall to increase the blast radius of such an important piece?

xrd 4y ago
It's also here: https://craphound.com/news/2022/07/24/why-none-of-my-books-are-available-on-audible/ https://craphound.com/news/2022/07/24/why-none-of-my-books-a... You could write to the author and ask him why he posts on Medium. My bet is that posting in multiple places increases the blast radius.

ldjb 4y ago

"This essay, which I am about to record as an audiobook […], and will thereafter upload to ACX as a self-published, free audiobook." Doctorow seems to have intended to release this audiobook on Audible for free. However, when I look it up on Audible's website, it is on sale for a regular price of £3.69 (or £3.23 / one credit for Audible members). I wonder why this is. This is not a criticism of Doctorow; I think he probably doesn't expect people to actually pay for it, and he's released a DRM-free copy, free of charge. I wonder if this is something that Audible enforces (i.e. they do not normally allow audiobooks to be available free of charge). I have seen some audiobooks available free of charge on Audible, but perhaps those are the exception rather than the rule.

BlindWanderer 4y ago

Just as an FYI. The audible drm is broken (aax & aaxc), ffmpeg can decrypt your books.

marklyon 4y ago

I really like Cory's books, and have even purchased some of his audiobooks from him, but I find that I do 100% of my audiobook listening through Audible. The convenience and massive library that I've amassed as a result of their credit scheme has fully captured me. When I had a standalone music player, it was far easier to deal with random MP3 files.