4 ms·

I don't want to be discouraging but if this is the level you are at right now, "deploy and maintain on your own" is very likely to get you electrocuted. Grid le

by WJW 4y ago

I don't want to be discouraging but if this is the level you are at right now, "deploy and maintain on your own" is very likely to get you electrocuted. Grid level electricity generation is not something to "move fast and break things" with. That said, get acquainted with: - How the electrical grid works. You will at the least want to have a working understanding on how generators synchronize to produce a coherent grid and how frequency regulation works. You should be able to at least immediately tell the difference between a MW and a MVAR, or to clearly explain the impact of power factor correction on transmission line capacity. - The various different primary energy sources (fossil fuels, nuclear, wind, solar) and how they differ. - Your local electricity grid regulator will have published rules for the local wholesale electricity market. Learn those and how to interact with them. You should probably be aware that for most markets the minimum bid size is in the order of megawatts, which is enough for about a thousand homes. - The economics of how power generation works. Power generation has massive economies of scale and single-person initiatives are unlikely to be able to compete. - Last but certainly not least, get yourself up to date with safety regulations. Grid level electricity will not only kill you, it will hurt the entire time too. If you want to "just" make enough electricity for yourself, get some solar panels on your roof. I'm sorry this post is probably not what you were hoping for but electricity is really really dangerous and not something you should be going into if you don't have a firm grasp of what you are doing.

salty_biscuits 4y ago
> The economics of how power generation works. Power generation has massive economies of scale and single-person initiatives are unlikely to be able to compete. The only "in" for a small player is remote/rural where the cost of distribution infrastructure dominates. Also dispatchable service to provide frequency stability seems to be a niche.
- saltminer 4y ago
  > The only "in" for a small player is remote/rural where the cost of distribution infrastructure dominates. Even then, you still have the same high cost for distribution infrastructure (actually higher once you factor in economies of scale) with none of the experience building said infrastructure. And you're probably not going to be able to build an isolated grid because (at least in the US) power companies have already run wires basically anywhere people are willing to pay for power. The biggest market I can see is neighbors pooling funds for a large solar installation and wiring up everyone's houses to reduce power bills, but that would probably be a permitting nightmare (and that's assuming there's no legislation prohibiting this already).
  - mechagodzilla 4y ago
    There's legislation in many places to make this easier - it's typically called 'community solar'. You build a separately metered solar installation somewhere, and people nearby typically 'subscribe' to the power at some fixed rate, and it gets credited to the account associated with the meter at your house.
gridspy 4y ago
> Last but certainly not least, get yourself up to date with safety regulations. Grid level electricity will not only kill you, it will hurt the entire time too. Building-level electricity is the type where a dropped spanner instantly becomes a faceful of gaseous metal. If you think you have time to feel the pain, you don't understand grid level energy yet.
- lazide 4y ago
  And plasma! Yeah, was about to say - grid level arc flashes don’t even require being particularly close to a conductor, let alone provide enough time for the miscreant to feel pain before becoming chunks or vapor. It can leave cool scorch marks though!
huijzer 4y ago
> I'm sorry this post is probably not what you were hoping for but electricity is really really dangerous […]. People probably discouraged the Wright Brothers, Amelia Earhart, and Thomas Edison too for safety reasons. Don’t be discouraged OP. If you want to do it, go for it.
- JshWright 4y ago
  Those folks knew they were pushing the envelope and were aware of the risks involved. OP is looking to enter a well understood space that already exists. Getting themselves killed in the process wouldn't be in the noble pursuit of bettering humanity or anything like that... It would just be ignorance of well known/understood risks.
- landryraccoon 4y ago
  Well, nobody had ever flown a plane before the Wright brothers. Civilization has had grid scale electrical power for over a hundred years. It’s sheer hubris to ignore the fact that this is a mature industry with experts that have studied the problem for decades.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - boplicity 4y ago
    I suggest you read the book "The Innovation Stack." It's a presents a good alternative to the "Hubris" argument, with specific examples related to quite established industries.
    - 1123581321 4y ago
      The person asking isn’t trying to innovate, just do what other people are already doing (which is cool; I make my living doing what millions of people do very similarly.)
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Yes, don't be discouraged. But don't be clueless. It is possible to do it safely, of course
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
> Your local electricity grid regulator will have published rules for the local wholesale electricity market. Learn those and how to interact with them. You should probably be aware that for most markets the minimum bid size is in the order of megawatts, which is enough for about a thousand homes. And for reference, a MW of Solar panels costs close to $1M - so this is not really a feasible industry for the average Joe to enter.
- hammock 4y ago
  Why not? Many of the most common franchise businesses have entry costs around $1 million
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    I don't think that's what "Average Joes" are getting into, though.
    - notsapiensatall 4y ago
      NYC Taxi medallions used to cost about $1M before ridesharing companies arrived. People would take out loans to afford them, or rent them from the real "franchise owner". Not everybody aspires to a unicorn exit. Predictable returns are worth a lot too, even small ones. The drivers who took out loans for their medallions really got screwed when Uber came in, but if the demand for electricity drops catastrophically, we'll probably have bigger problems than a bit of debt.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    1) that's just the cost of the panels. 2) you might need to have 10x that much (in just panels). 3) I'd be amazed if you could find financing for this.
  - qualudeheart 4y ago
    Why not just make a startup for that money. You can train a GPT-3 clone for that money. You can hire a few ML grad students to make some dangerous AI the big companies think is unethical. Or you can do a deep tech startup like mini Varda. $1MM can get you far enough that you attract VC money and that’s all you need.

by WJW 4y ago

salty_biscuits 4y ago

> The economics of how power generation works. Power generation has massive economies of scale and single-person initiatives are unlikely to be able to compete. The only "in" for a small player is remote/rural where the cost of distribution infrastructure dominates. Also dispatchable service to provide frequency stability seems to be a niche.

saltminer 4y ago
> The only "in" for a small player is remote/rural where the cost of distribution infrastructure dominates. Even then, you still have the same high cost for distribution infrastructure (actually higher once you factor in economies of scale) with none of the experience building said infrastructure. And you're probably not going to be able to build an isolated grid because (at least in the US) power companies have already run wires basically anywhere people are willing to pay for power. The biggest market I can see is neighbors pooling funds for a large solar installation and wiring up everyone's houses to reduce power bills, but that would probably be a permitting nightmare (and that's assuming there's no legislation prohibiting this already).
- mechagodzilla 4y ago
  There's legislation in many places to make this easier - it's typically called 'community solar'. You build a separately metered solar installation somewhere, and people nearby typically 'subscribe' to the power at some fixed rate, and it gets credited to the account associated with the meter at your house.

gridspy 4y ago

> Last but certainly not least, get yourself up to date with safety regulations. Grid level electricity will not only kill you, it will hurt the entire time too. Building-level electricity is the type where a dropped spanner instantly becomes a faceful of gaseous metal. If you think you have time to feel the pain, you don't understand grid level energy yet.

lazide 4y ago
And plasma! Yeah, was about to say - grid level arc flashes don’t even require being particularly close to a conductor, let alone provide enough time for the miscreant to feel pain before becoming chunks or vapor. It can leave cool scorch marks though!

huijzer 4y ago

> I'm sorry this post is probably not what you were hoping for but electricity is really really dangerous […]. People probably discouraged the Wright Brothers, Amelia Earhart, and Thomas Edison too for safety reasons. Don’t be discouraged OP. If you want to do it, go for it.

JshWright 4y ago
Those folks knew they were pushing the envelope and were aware of the risks involved. OP is looking to enter a well understood space that already exists. Getting themselves killed in the process wouldn't be in the noble pursuit of bettering humanity or anything like that... It would just be ignorance of well known/understood risks.
landryraccoon 4y ago
Well, nobody had ever flown a plane before the Wright brothers. Civilization has had grid scale electrical power for over a hundred years. It’s sheer hubris to ignore the fact that this is a mature industry with experts that have studied the problem for decades.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- boplicity 4y ago
  I suggest you read the book "The Innovation Stack." It's a presents a good alternative to the "Hubris" argument, with specific examples related to quite established industries.
  - 1123581321 4y ago
    The person asking isn’t trying to innovate, just do what other people are already doing (which is cool; I make my living doing what millions of people do very similarly.)
raverbashing 4y ago
Yes, don't be discouraged. But don't be clueless. It is possible to do it safely, of course

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

> Your local electricity grid regulator will have published rules for the local wholesale electricity market. Learn those and how to interact with them. You should probably be aware that for most markets the minimum bid size is in the order of megawatts, which is enough for about a thousand homes. And for reference, a MW of Solar panels costs close to $1M - so this is not really a feasible industry for the average Joe to enter.

hammock 4y ago
Why not? Many of the most common franchise businesses have entry costs around $1 million
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  I don't think that's what "Average Joes" are getting into, though.
  - notsapiensatall 4y ago
    NYC Taxi medallions used to cost about $1M before ridesharing companies arrived. People would take out loans to afford them, or rent them from the real "franchise owner". Not everybody aspires to a unicorn exit. Predictable returns are worth a lot too, even small ones. The drivers who took out loans for their medallions really got screwed when Uber came in, but if the demand for electricity drops catastrophically, we'll probably have bigger problems than a bit of debt.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  1) that's just the cost of the panels. 2) you might need to have 10x that much (in just panels). 3) I'd be amazed if you could find financing for this.
- qualudeheart 4y ago
  Why not just make a startup for that money. You can train a GPT-3 clone for that money. You can hire a few ML grad students to make some dangerous AI the big companies think is unethical. Or you can do a deep tech startup like mini Varda. $1MM can get you far enough that you attract VC money and that’s all you need.