4 ms·

>All but two states have so-called “pay-to-stay” laws that make prisoners pay for their time behind bars What? Had no idea about this whatsoever and I consider

>All but two states have so-called “pay-to-stay” laws that make prisoners pay for their time behind bars What? Had no idea about this whatsoever and I consider myself a well-read person. Damn.

api 4y ago
I too knew nothing about this and honestly find that frightening. How many other grotesquely perverse laws are on the books? Someone needs to create a hall of shame for these laws index by federal and for every state. This is perverse on so many levels. It’s not only ongoing punishment but it disincentivizes people from getting their lives in order and probably increases recidivism rates quite a bit. So in the end I wouldn’t be surprised if it costs more.
- otikik 4y ago
  Slavery has an exception for people in prison in the Constitution
- djitz 4y ago
  Sadly, it gets much worse the more you look into it. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/17/pennsylvania-judges-kids-for-cash-damages-ciavarella-conahan https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/17/pennsylvania...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- blooalien 4y ago
  > … "and probably increases recidivism rates quite a bit." I'm fairly sure that's intentional, as prisons are "big business" in the USA (which also probably explains the ridiculously high rate of imprisonment here).
isoprophlex 4y ago
Nothing weird going on here... It's the free market doing it's thing. Apparently staying in prison is in high demand, driving up prices. /s
- LewisVerstappen 4y ago
  How are actions by a government... "the free market"?
  - culi 4y ago
    Many (most?) bills that have contributed to skyrocketing prison populations have actually been straight up directly written by private prison industry lobbyists. In one case a senator even accidentally left the logo of the lobbying group on the proposed bill
  - diroussel 4y ago
    The “/s” is Internet forum code for “sarcasm” which is a type of humour. This indicates the author knows it’s not true, but perhaps thinks it’s it would be funny if it was true.
    - LewisVerstappen 4y ago
      Okay he edited and added the /s after my comment. Lmao there's definitely a ton of people who would make that comment unironically.
    - loeg 4y ago
      /s isn’t a free pass for total nonsense statements.
    - dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
      “/s” - learning new things...When did this come about though?
      - loeg 4y ago
DangitBobby 4y ago
Seems like something people should know about. It's incredibly dystopian.
- culi 4y ago
  Also wild to think about the fact that many states take away voting rights for prisoners (e.g. Florida which voted to stop this practice but Santis managed to undo that) Another extremely dystopian reality we live with daily and rarely stop to question. When the 13th Amendment was proposed, one of the big compromises the South fought for was the "except as punishment for crime" clause. And, of course, immediately after it was passed there was a big cultural shift in racist stereotypes of Black men from being effeminate and cowardly to being big scary criminals. Basically just a rush to recreate the slavery apparatus by imprisoning Black people
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    >When the 13th Amendment was proposed, one of the big compromises the South fought for was the "except as punishment for crime" clause. The south didn't really get a say in the text of the 13th since they weren't around. That clause was included so as not to screw with the established prison labor systems of the states that were in the union. The 13th was in the over at a time when union support for the war was low and it wasn't a boat anyone felt like rocking. It wasn't a contentions clause and was basically seen as a common sense exception at the time. If it wasn't then you'd think some of the more abolitionist states would have tried to abolish that too or you'd at least have some period correspondence about it you could refer to. >And, of course, immediately after it was passed there was a big cultural shift in racist stereotypes of Black men from being effeminate and cowardly to being big scary criminals. You're early by a century. The lazy and up to no good criminal black man is a stereotype that mostly came around in the 1960s after we incentivized urban minorities to quit working above the table (and quit getting married) with asinine welfare eligibility rules. As an aside, president Johnson actually has some very quotable quotes on this subject. In the many decades between the civil war and great depression blacks increasingly moved north and moved to urban areas (mostly in the north and midwest but some in the south) to get jobs in the industrial economy and because the alternatives in the south sucked. Throughout this time period they were stereotyped as tireless workers with some cultural differences much the same way other cultural groups have been over the years.
culi 4y ago
This seems a common theme in the US. In 2018, there was a nation-wide prison strike across all states in the US. The largest prison strike in world history basically. Many prisoners died or were injured. I remember checking NYTimes and CNN's frontpages and being shocked to see nothing written about it. The strike lasted nearly a month Really wild to think about how this could've gone down in history books for immense historical significance if we just... paid any attention at all. Instead hardly anyone knows about it Similarly there's an immigrant detention center near where I live in California. The detainees recently went on strike. They have to work to earn money in order to buy food. The work is "volunteer" so they can get away with paying them $1 for a full day's work. A bag of beans costs $3 and a 15-minute phone call is $2.50. So a full week of work gets you a phone call and some beans. The prison guards use intimidation tactics like "the judge won't like hearing about your bad behavior when your case is up" to keep them from organizing. Lots have gotten sick from the black mold growing in their cells too. It's straight up modern slavery and the only media source I've seen even mention it is LaborNotes[0] [0] https://www.labornotes.org/2022/08/immigrant-detainees-strike-over-1-day-pay-working-conditions https://www.labornotes.org/2022/08/immigrant-detainees-strik...
- hef19898 4y ago
  We can just call those camps, and simolar ones across Europe for refugees, what they are: Forced labour and concentration camps. Since they only contain the "right" people us privileged (I mean that unironically as one of that group) don't care. Those few that do don't matter in the bigger picture.

>All but two states have so-called “pay-to-stay” laws that make prisoners pay for their time behind bars What? Had no idea about this whatsoever and I consider myself a well-read person. Damn.

api 4y ago

I too knew nothing about this and honestly find that frightening. How many other grotesquely perverse laws are on the books? Someone needs to create a hall of shame for these laws index by federal and for every state. This is perverse on so many levels. It’s not only ongoing punishment but it disincentivizes people from getting their lives in order and probably increases recidivism rates quite a bit. So in the end I wouldn’t be surprised if it costs more.

otikik 4y ago
Slavery has an exception for people in prison in the Constitution
djitz 4y ago
Sadly, it gets much worse the more you look into it. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/17/pennsylvania-judges-kids-for-cash-damages-ciavarella-conahan https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/17/pennsylvania...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
blooalien 4y ago
> … "and probably increases recidivism rates quite a bit." I'm fairly sure that's intentional, as prisons are "big business" in the USA (which also probably explains the ridiculously high rate of imprisonment here).

isoprophlex 4y ago

Nothing weird going on here... It's the free market doing it's thing. Apparently staying in prison is in high demand, driving up prices. /s

LewisVerstappen 4y ago
How are actions by a government... "the free market"?
- culi 4y ago
  Many (most?) bills that have contributed to skyrocketing prison populations have actually been straight up directly written by private prison industry lobbyists. In one case a senator even accidentally left the logo of the lobbying group on the proposed bill
- diroussel 4y ago
  The “/s” is Internet forum code for “sarcasm” which is a type of humour. This indicates the author knows it’s not true, but perhaps thinks it’s it would be funny if it was true.
  - LewisVerstappen 4y ago
    Okay he edited and added the /s after my comment. Lmao there's definitely a ton of people who would make that comment unironically.
  - loeg 4y ago
    /s isn’t a free pass for total nonsense statements.
  - dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
    “/s” - learning new things...When did this come about though?
    - loeg 4y ago

DangitBobby 4y ago

Seems like something people should know about. It's incredibly dystopian.

culi 4y ago
Also wild to think about the fact that many states take away voting rights for prisoners (e.g. Florida which voted to stop this practice but Santis managed to undo that) Another extremely dystopian reality we live with daily and rarely stop to question. When the 13th Amendment was proposed, one of the big compromises the South fought for was the "except as punishment for crime" clause. And, of course, immediately after it was passed there was a big cultural shift in racist stereotypes of Black men from being effeminate and cowardly to being big scary criminals. Basically just a rush to recreate the slavery apparatus by imprisoning Black people
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  >When the 13th Amendment was proposed, one of the big compromises the South fought for was the "except as punishment for crime" clause. The south didn't really get a say in the text of the 13th since they weren't around. That clause was included so as not to screw with the established prison labor systems of the states that were in the union. The 13th was in the over at a time when union support for the war was low and it wasn't a boat anyone felt like rocking. It wasn't a contentions clause and was basically seen as a common sense exception at the time. If it wasn't then you'd think some of the more abolitionist states would have tried to abolish that too or you'd at least have some period correspondence about it you could refer to. >And, of course, immediately after it was passed there was a big cultural shift in racist stereotypes of Black men from being effeminate and cowardly to being big scary criminals. You're early by a century. The lazy and up to no good criminal black man is a stereotype that mostly came around in the 1960s after we incentivized urban minorities to quit working above the table (and quit getting married) with asinine welfare eligibility rules. As an aside, president Johnson actually has some very quotable quotes on this subject. In the many decades between the civil war and great depression blacks increasingly moved north and moved to urban areas (mostly in the north and midwest but some in the south) to get jobs in the industrial economy and because the alternatives in the south sucked. Throughout this time period they were stereotyped as tireless workers with some cultural differences much the same way other cultural groups have been over the years.

culi 4y ago

This seems a common theme in the US. In 2018, there was a nation-wide prison strike across all states in the US. The largest prison strike in world history basically. Many prisoners died or were injured. I remember checking NYTimes and CNN's frontpages and being shocked to see nothing written about it. The strike lasted nearly a month Really wild to think about how this could've gone down in history books for immense historical significance if we just... paid any attention at all. Instead hardly anyone knows about it Similarly there's an immigrant detention center near where I live in California. The detainees recently went on strike. They have to work to earn money in order to buy food. The work is "volunteer" so they can get away with paying them $1 for a full day's work. A bag of beans costs $3 and a 15-minute phone call is $2.50. So a full week of work gets you a phone call and some beans. The prison guards use intimidation tactics like "the judge won't like hearing about your bad behavior when your case is up" to keep them from organizing. Lots have gotten sick from the black mold growing in their cells too. It's straight up modern slavery and the only media source I've seen even mention it is LaborNotes[0] [0] https://www.labornotes.org/2022/08/immigrant-detainees-strike-over-1-day-pay-working-conditions https://www.labornotes.org/2022/08/immigrant-detainees-strik...

hef19898 4y ago
We can just call those camps, and simolar ones across Europe for refugees, what they are: Forced labour and concentration camps. Since they only contain the "right" people us privileged (I mean that unironically as one of that group) don't care. Those few that do don't matter in the bigger picture.