4 ms·

Why not then just charge batteries where you need them and keep them at place for when the Sun goes to sleep? Why would you transport batteries around?

by nixass 4y ago

pclmulqdq 4y ago
Because some places have excess amounts of hydropower and other places have huge energy shortfalls. Not everyone is using solar/wind power. It is a pretty straightforward arbitrage. I have no idea if it's worth doing, though.
- yywwbbn 4y ago
  It’s pretty obvious that it isn’t at least not with lithium batteries. They are way to expensive and heavy. e.g. assuming an around 36 000 kg total payload the truck would have to use up 1/3 of all the electricity it stores just to travel around 600km. This combined with general inefficiency of batteries and the extreme cost would make it an absolutely terrible alternative to HVDC.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Some Battery train companies include this in their plans. Even non Battery electric trains can speed up or slow down at different points (while still staying on schedule) to act as a variable demand for the local grids. Batteries just extend that. https://arstechnica.netblogpro.com/science/2021/11/can-we-run-our-trains-using-big-batteries/ https://arstechnica.netblogpro.com/science/2021/11/can-we-ru... > The analysis becomes very interesting when the researchers leave freight behind and start thinking about what could be done with many big, mobile batteries. Even without moving them, freight companies could use their capacity to provide grid stabilization services or sell back power when the price gets high. In extreme cases, this system could actually pay for the entire infrastructure. > "Preliminary estimates of the most expensive 90 hours per year in the ERCOT [Texas] market, for example, show that batteries could be discharged at $200/kWh, potentially generating enough revenue to pay for the upfront battery cost in a single year," the study says. > The batteries could also be moved to locations that have been struck by power outages or natural disasters, towed there by locomotives running on diesel instead of draining the batteries.
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    > Even non Battery electric trains can speed up or slow down at different points I want this for everything with a battery, it’s own internal thermal mass or things I don’t need to complete as quickly as possible. E.g.: laptop, washing machine (clothes or dishes), dryer, refrigerator, hot water heater, hvac, etc. It just seems so underdeveloped on the consumer side.
    - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
      Hot water heaters are the the low hanging fruit here. Australian water heaters have been using overnight coal power for decades with very basic systems. https://es.catapult.org.uk/project/consumer-insight-unlocking-the-prosumer-using-ai-led-hot-water-tanks/ https://es.catapult.org.uk/project/consumer-insight-unlockin...

Why not then just charge batteries where you need them and keep them at place for when the Sun goes to sleep? Why would you transport batteries around?

by nixass 4y ago

Why not then just charge batteries where you need them and keep them at place for when the Sun goes to sleep? Why would you transport batteries around?

pclmulqdq 4y ago

Because some places have excess amounts of hydropower and other places have huge energy shortfalls. Not everyone is using solar/wind power. It is a pretty straightforward arbitrage. I have no idea if it's worth doing, though.

yywwbbn 4y ago
It’s pretty obvious that it isn’t at least not with lithium batteries. They are way to expensive and heavy. e.g. assuming an around 36 000 kg total payload the truck would have to use up 1/3 of all the electricity it stores just to travel around 600km. This combined with general inefficiency of batteries and the extreme cost would make it an absolutely terrible alternative to HVDC.
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Some Battery train companies include this in their plans. Even non Battery electric trains can speed up or slow down at different points (while still staying on schedule) to act as a variable demand for the local grids. Batteries just extend that. https://arstechnica.netblogpro.com/science/2021/11/can-we-run-our-trains-using-big-batteries/ https://arstechnica.netblogpro.com/science/2021/11/can-we-ru... > The analysis becomes very interesting when the researchers leave freight behind and start thinking about what could be done with many big, mobile batteries. Even without moving them, freight companies could use their capacity to provide grid stabilization services or sell back power when the price gets high. In extreme cases, this system could actually pay for the entire infrastructure. > "Preliminary estimates of the most expensive 90 hours per year in the ERCOT [Texas] market, for example, show that batteries could be discharged at $200/kWh, potentially generating enough revenue to pay for the upfront battery cost in a single year," the study says. > The batteries could also be moved to locations that have been struck by power outages or natural disasters, towed there by locomotives running on diesel instead of draining the batteries.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  > Even non Battery electric trains can speed up or slow down at different points I want this for everything with a battery, it’s own internal thermal mass or things I don’t need to complete as quickly as possible. E.g.: laptop, washing machine (clothes or dishes), dryer, refrigerator, hot water heater, hvac, etc. It just seems so underdeveloped on the consumer side.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    Hot water heaters are the the low hanging fruit here. Australian water heaters have been using overnight coal power for decades with very basic systems. https://es.catapult.org.uk/project/consumer-insight-unlocking-the-prosumer-using-ai-led-hot-water-tanks/ https://es.catapult.org.uk/project/consumer-insight-unlockin...