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Back in the day I was involved with an anti-apartheid group, one thing we were doing was targeting local companies importing wine from SA, we'd buy shares and a

Back in the day I was involved with an anti-apartheid group, one thing we were doing was targeting local companies importing wine from SA, we'd buy shares and attend their AGMs with the intent of gumming up the works so that they couldn't adopt their annual accounts and in turn file their final yearly taxes (this is something that is normally not in shareholders' interest, but it was in ours). So one of the problems with Robert's (and the way it played into company law in NZ) is that it doesn't fare well faced with recursion .... our game play was roughly: - someone makes an initial motion - say "I move a motion of no confidence in the chair under the 1873 Aged and Infirm person's Act" - this enrages the Chair, sowing discord, but they have to have a vote, chair steps aside - I move we hold a written ballot (required if asked for) - I'd like to nominate X as scrutineer - Someone else - I'd like to nominate Y - I move we hold a written vote on scrutineers (now we're off recursion can kick in) - I'd like to nominate A as scrutineer ... - Someone else - I'd like to nominate B .... .... and so on - you get the idea Now pretty soon we're into silliness, the pompous board of directors running the meeting who always have enough votes to pass anything at an AGM, certainly more than these raucous hippies have .... but they're useless if you can't actually have a vote ... Eventually the original chairman loses it, gavels the meeting back under his control declares all of the above a pile of rubbish and continues on with the previously carefully scripted AGM without resolving any of this .... but we have him, the accounts are adopted by a chairman who was not the chair, the rest of the meeting is invalid ... next step is to threaten them in court with an injunction freezing the accounts .... their secretary couldn't keep up with all the motions, we had a recording .... Better yet, we had 100 individual shareholders, under NZ law at the time we could call a special general meeting every 6 weeks ..... Needless to say as we started buying shares of the second wine importer, all the rest of the companies stopped importing wine from SA ....

balls187 4y ago
Your comment is absolutely fascinating. Is there a place on the web folks can read more about your time fighting apartheid?
- Taniwha 4y ago
  I just had a look, can't find anything about the wine protest - it was 40 years ago, all pre-web, part of a larger anti-apartheid movement in New Zealand - organised by a local group HART who, among other things were targeting NZ imports from SA, people were going into stores and stickering SA products (especially bottles of wine) The 1981 Springbok was probably the biggest thing that happened - I got arrested for blowing a whistle during a game (seems there's some silly rule that only one person at a rugby game can have a whistle or something, they couldn't find it when I got to the station and I was released without charge) https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/1981-springbok-tour https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/1981-springbok-tour
  - happytiger 4y ago
    I have never heard of any of this. You should do a podcast or find some way to preserve all of this long-term as it’s honestly pretty valuable!
    - Taniwha 4y ago
      I went and worked in Silicon Valley a few years later - moved back after 20 years, NZ is a far safer place for kids to be independent teenagers - and was pretty amazed that my son was taught about the '81 tour in high school history - it's not something that's been forgotten here.
    - NIL8 4y ago
      A documentary about this would be great. Especially, if it was a series that covered peaceful, disruptive protests over the years. It would be helpful for those wanting to do something similarly effective without the violence and chaos we've seen over the last few years.
  - Taniwha 4y ago
    I should add that all this meeting-hacking was not my brilliant idea, can't claim any credit I someone else thought this up. I only realised that we were invoking a form of recursion years later when I was working with a patent attorney on a patent and realised that his patent-english was a sort of programming language in it's own right, with variables and recursion and different meanings for little things like 'or' etc (but, as he explained, not infinite recursion, because that would require infinite dollars to file)
alfiedotwtf 4y ago
> the accounts are adopted by a chairman who was not the chair, the rest of the meeting is invalid LOL that's genius!
- Vaslo 4y ago
  Tell me that you don’t seriously believe this actually happened lol
  - Taniwha 4y ago
    Yup it all happened, I don't think we ever took them to court, we did call one of the 6 weekly followups (it was 6 weeks because the company had to hold a meeting 6 weeks after being notified that 100 shareholders wanted a meeting). I may not have explained just how red the chair's face went when we moved that motion (there is no "1873 Aged and Infirm person's Act", it was made up for the purpose, we didn't really need a reason to move a motion of no confidence in the chair) - we had all gone in with flowcharts of how we were going to do it written down on paper. It all happened in the aftermath of the 1981 rugby tour https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/1981-springbok-tour https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/1981-springbok-tour (having said this it was 40 years ago, I may have gotten some minor details wrong - it was however a grand social hack)
    - Vaslo 4y ago
      - Taniwha 4y ago
        The company we attacked pushed back pretty hard, we didn't "down" them, we did mess with them a lot, the other companies caved and announced they weren't importing any more SA wine rather than have us show up at their meetings. Our goal wasn't to "down" any company, it was to isolate the SA apartheid govt, in this case by reducing their trade - we also went after tinned guavas - no one wants to stock tins of stuff that keeps getting opened in the shop and left to go rancid on the shelves
teddyh 4y ago
I guess all is fair when you’re on the side of right and truth.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- green_on_black 4y ago
  And that's how you get radicalization.
  - 1letterunixname 4y ago
    And the iteration of communism splintering from socialism. To be truthful, this is essentially what the political estate can devolve into at any time, with or without a January insurrection.
  - SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
    If it wasn't the status quo, then the idea of digging finite fuels out of the ground and burning them in significant enough quantities to alter the composition of the atmosphere would be considered radical
    - teddyh 4y ago
      Maybe, but how is this relevant? The original discussion featured anti-apartheid activities which were disrupting companies importing wine from South Africa. It had nothing to do with coal or oil.
- concordDance 4y ago
  A shame that people are often wrong about being on the side of right and truth.
  - teddyh 4y ago
    No, no, only bad people are on the wrong side.
thedebuglife 4y ago
This is amazing. I wonder if something like this wools fly in the US.
- banannaise 4y ago
  In the US they're likely to adjourn the first meeting, and hold a second one with riot cops present to threaten anyone who attempts to "disrupt" the meeting by doing anything other than the board's exact agenda.
- Taniwha 4y ago
  you'd have to do your research - the law that allowed 100 shareholders order up a special general meeting every days was I'm sure only a NZ thing (and I think I remembering the conservative govt of time changing the law to protect their mates from this loophole). In this case we had to buy min 100 shares each which was about ~NZ$100 at the time - so that's about a $10k investment - we all sent proxies to the organisers - that $100 was worth a lot less by the time we were done, I don't think I ever bothered cashing it up
homonculus1 4y ago
- AvocadoPanic 4y ago
  SA is a great example of a successful multicultural country. The unsuccessful multicultural countries are worse.
  - laichzeit0 4y ago
    - UncleMeat 4y ago
      - kikokikokiko 4y ago
        UncleMeat 4y ago
        It is very very very easy to blame the people at the time for creating a system that explicitly oppressed a large portion of the population based on the color of their skin in order to uphold the disgusting and evil ideals of white supremacy. And you are correct - white people aren't allowed to "protect themselves" by engaging in mass murder, organized oppression, and social violence against black people. Apartheid was and is evil.
        homonculus1 4y ago
        "Mass murder, organized oppression, and social violence." Alexa, what is necklacing?
        kikokikokiko 4y ago
        So now that the system is actively oppressing, based on the color of their skin, the smallest minority in SA it's better? Whites can't get any job in SA, neither in government nor in private companies. The only option is to "be an entrepreneur" and open your own business. Apartheid literally means separation. Everyone have the right to deal or befriend with anyone they wish, forced multiculturalism is just it, a forced thing. The africanners 50 years ago knew that ending Apartheid would mean their own genocide, but the liberals of the rest of the western world couldn't "accept" such absurd way of thinking. Well, they were right, now the africanners of 2022 have their days numbered, and SA as a whole is becoming just another failed state in Africa.
O__________O 4y ago
Appears related to concept of “vetocracy“; a term I am neither attached to, nor is likely original, but does help identify characteristics of disfunction within a system: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetocracy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetocracy
anovikov 4y ago
Looks like you simply gave a favour to privately owned wine importers who's shares you couldn't buy?
- scoopertrooper 4y ago
  To a degree, but each wine exporter has a certain degree of capacity to import wine e.g., warehouses, staff, and trucks. This all can be be scaled up, but only after some time has elapsed and additional capital being placed at risk. It's reasonable to assume that these folks may have significantly reduced NZ's imports of SA wine for at least a while.
  - Taniwha 4y ago
    In the New Zealand of the early 1980s one couldn't just go and import something you needed a govt import licence, in many cases these had been handed down over generations and the number in any one market were strictly limited. The conservative govt that had encouraged the whole Springbok tour in 81 also was the same govt that so mismanaged the economy that it fell apart in 84, they were replaced by a left wing govt that brought in free trade and scrapped all these licensed etc (not the usual left/right narrative)
zeristor 4y ago
Is anyone doing something similar regarding environmental protests, although I don't think NZ has much of an issue, unlike Australia.
tarakat 4y ago
Are there any prospect of continuing such protests? There are still apartheid states companies do business with, to say nothing of other corporate misdeeds.

balls187 4y ago

Your comment is absolutely fascinating. Is there a place on the web folks can read more about your time fighting apartheid?

Taniwha 4y ago
I just had a look, can't find anything about the wine protest - it was 40 years ago, all pre-web, part of a larger anti-apartheid movement in New Zealand - organised by a local group HART who, among other things were targeting NZ imports from SA, people were going into stores and stickering SA products (especially bottles of wine) The 1981 Springbok was probably the biggest thing that happened - I got arrested for blowing a whistle during a game (seems there's some silly rule that only one person at a rugby game can have a whistle or something, they couldn't find it when I got to the station and I was released without charge) https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/1981-springbok-tour https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/1981-springbok-tour
- happytiger 4y ago
  I have never heard of any of this. You should do a podcast or find some way to preserve all of this long-term as it’s honestly pretty valuable!
  - Taniwha 4y ago
    I went and worked in Silicon Valley a few years later - moved back after 20 years, NZ is a far safer place for kids to be independent teenagers - and was pretty amazed that my son was taught about the '81 tour in high school history - it's not something that's been forgotten here.
  - NIL8 4y ago
    A documentary about this would be great. Especially, if it was a series that covered peaceful, disruptive protests over the years. It would be helpful for those wanting to do something similarly effective without the violence and chaos we've seen over the last few years.
- Taniwha 4y ago
  I should add that all this meeting-hacking was not my brilliant idea, can't claim any credit I someone else thought this up. I only realised that we were invoking a form of recursion years later when I was working with a patent attorney on a patent and realised that his patent-english was a sort of programming language in it's own right, with variables and recursion and different meanings for little things like 'or' etc (but, as he explained, not infinite recursion, because that would require infinite dollars to file)

alfiedotwtf 4y ago

> the accounts are adopted by a chairman who was not the chair, the rest of the meeting is invalid LOL that's genius!

Vaslo 4y ago
Tell me that you don’t seriously believe this actually happened lol
- Taniwha 4y ago
  Yup it all happened, I don't think we ever took them to court, we did call one of the 6 weekly followups (it was 6 weeks because the company had to hold a meeting 6 weeks after being notified that 100 shareholders wanted a meeting). I may not have explained just how red the chair's face went when we moved that motion (there is no "1873 Aged and Infirm person's Act", it was made up for the purpose, we didn't really need a reason to move a motion of no confidence in the chair) - we had all gone in with flowcharts of how we were going to do it written down on paper. It all happened in the aftermath of the 1981 rugby tour https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/1981-springbok-tour https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/1981-springbok-tour (having said this it was 40 years ago, I may have gotten some minor details wrong - it was however a grand social hack)
  - Vaslo 4y ago
    - Taniwha 4y ago
      The company we attacked pushed back pretty hard, we didn't "down" them, we did mess with them a lot, the other companies caved and announced they weren't importing any more SA wine rather than have us show up at their meetings. Our goal wasn't to "down" any company, it was to isolate the SA apartheid govt, in this case by reducing their trade - we also went after tinned guavas - no one wants to stock tins of stuff that keeps getting opened in the shop and left to go rancid on the shelves

teddyh 4y ago

I guess all is fair when you’re on the side of right and truth.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
green_on_black 4y ago
And that's how you get radicalization.
- 1letterunixname 4y ago
  And the iteration of communism splintering from socialism. To be truthful, this is essentially what the political estate can devolve into at any time, with or without a January insurrection.
- SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
  If it wasn't the status quo, then the idea of digging finite fuels out of the ground and burning them in significant enough quantities to alter the composition of the atmosphere would be considered radical
  - teddyh 4y ago
    Maybe, but how is this relevant? The original discussion featured anti-apartheid activities which were disrupting companies importing wine from South Africa. It had nothing to do with coal or oil.
concordDance 4y ago
A shame that people are often wrong about being on the side of right and truth.
- teddyh 4y ago
  No, no, only bad people are on the wrong side.

thedebuglife 4y ago

This is amazing. I wonder if something like this wools fly in the US.

banannaise 4y ago
In the US they're likely to adjourn the first meeting, and hold a second one with riot cops present to threaten anyone who attempts to "disrupt" the meeting by doing anything other than the board's exact agenda.
Taniwha 4y ago
you'd have to do your research - the law that allowed 100 shareholders order up a special general meeting every days was I'm sure only a NZ thing (and I think I remembering the conservative govt of time changing the law to protect their mates from this loophole). In this case we had to buy min 100 shares each which was about ~NZ$100 at the time - so that's about a $10k investment - we all sent proxies to the organisers - that $100 was worth a lot less by the time we were done, I don't think I ever bothered cashing it up

homonculus1 4y ago

AvocadoPanic 4y ago
SA is a great example of a successful multicultural country. The unsuccessful multicultural countries are worse.
- laichzeit0 4y ago
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    - kikokikokiko 4y ago
      - UncleMeat 4y ago
        It is very very very easy to blame the people at the time for creating a system that explicitly oppressed a large portion of the population based on the color of their skin in order to uphold the disgusting and evil ideals of white supremacy. And you are correct - white people aren't allowed to "protect themselves" by engaging in mass murder, organized oppression, and social violence against black people. Apartheid was and is evil.
        homonculus1 4y ago
        "Mass murder, organized oppression, and social violence." Alexa, what is necklacing?
        kikokikokiko 4y ago
        So now that the system is actively oppressing, based on the color of their skin, the smallest minority in SA it's better? Whites can't get any job in SA, neither in government nor in private companies. The only option is to "be an entrepreneur" and open your own business. Apartheid literally means separation. Everyone have the right to deal or befriend with anyone they wish, forced multiculturalism is just it, a forced thing. The africanners 50 years ago knew that ending Apartheid would mean their own genocide, but the liberals of the rest of the western world couldn't "accept" such absurd way of thinking. Well, they were right, now the africanners of 2022 have their days numbered, and SA as a whole is becoming just another failed state in Africa.

O__________O 4y ago

Appears related to concept of “vetocracy“; a term I am neither attached to, nor is likely original, but does help identify characteristics of disfunction within a system: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetocracy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetocracy

anovikov 4y ago

Looks like you simply gave a favour to privately owned wine importers who's shares you couldn't buy?

scoopertrooper 4y ago
To a degree, but each wine exporter has a certain degree of capacity to import wine e.g., warehouses, staff, and trucks. This all can be be scaled up, but only after some time has elapsed and additional capital being placed at risk. It's reasonable to assume that these folks may have significantly reduced NZ's imports of SA wine for at least a while.
- Taniwha 4y ago
  In the New Zealand of the early 1980s one couldn't just go and import something you needed a govt import licence, in many cases these had been handed down over generations and the number in any one market were strictly limited. The conservative govt that had encouraged the whole Springbok tour in 81 also was the same govt that so mismanaged the economy that it fell apart in 84, they were replaced by a left wing govt that brought in free trade and scrapped all these licensed etc (not the usual left/right narrative)

zeristor 4y ago

Is anyone doing something similar regarding environmental protests, although I don't think NZ has much of an issue, unlike Australia.

tarakat 4y ago

Are there any prospect of continuing such protests? There are still apartheid states companies do business with, to say nothing of other corporate misdeeds.