6 ms·

We might also be the pinnacle of civilisation. It is not outside the realm of possibility a perfect storm of nuclear war, climate change, fossil fuel depletion

We might also be the pinnacle of civilisation. It is not outside the realm of possibility a perfect storm of nuclear war, climate change, fossil fuel depletion and the resulting collapse in civilisation replaced by warlords and distrust of the technology that cause the calamity pushes us to a pre industrial society. Sure some books will survive but good luck recovering data from ancient computers when there’s no electricity. Perhaps in many thousands of years civilisation would somewhat recover but by then nearly everything would have to be rediscovered. This in fact is one of the possible answers to the Fermi paradox. Intelligent life besides us does exist but has regressed to a pre technological state and is unable to get back due to depleted resources. Thus it is unable to make its self known.

withinboredom 4y ago
We could also just have a lucky sun. It hasn’t flared on us in a hundred years or so. Maybe other systems aren’t so lucky and they can’t use electricity like we can. Hell, the next time it does flare up, we will probably go back to a preindustrial society for a decade or so.
jprd 4y ago
While a completely valid theory (and thank you for sharing it here), that is super dark. There just seems to be so much we know we don't know, that to theorize we're the pinnacle of what civilization can be is...gauche? Insanely short sighted and Sol-centric? I dunno, I'm obviously not a theoretical physicist or conducting well thought out experiments testing those theories - but it just seems defeatist and lame. We have a visible Universe that has rules and guardrails - that's bonkers and needs to be hacked more.
- DAVer98 4y ago
  All the best chord progressions are known, all the best formulas for movie scripts are rehashed again and again, it does feel like we are now on borrowed time whenever I hear a bad song or see a bad movie and this is extending to video games now, when most things appear bad these days compared to what came before and they like they should not have been created it means we should not be around doing it. We're done. We did our bit. Its time for our civilization to wind down.
  - tharkun__ 4y ago
    I bet there were people saying the same thing about the music hundreds of years ago. Or about theater. Shakespeare, who needs something else? Well, personally I will take a good movie from the past 25 years over Shakespeare any day. A lot of them borrow from Shakespeare or similar of course but I like the rehashes from 15 years ago better than the originals.
- cwillu 4y ago
  “It was said that in the Age of Legends, there had been horseless carriages that drank the black blood of the earth, long since drained dry. But then, it was said that in the Age of Legends, men had flown to the moon on a pillar of fire. Who took such stories seriously?” https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Ro6QSQaKdhfpeeGpr/why-safety-is-not-safe https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Ro6QSQaKdhfpeeGpr/why-safety...
  - brabel 4y ago
    Beautiful text. About the end of the Chinese civilization technological advantage in the 16th century: > War had ravaged the lands, laying waste whole cities. Plague had struck, killing millions, men, women and children buried in mass graves... > (but) the force that put an end to the Chinese arc of progress was deadlier by far than all of these together, yet seemingly intangible as metaphysics. By the 16th century, the fleets had vanished, the proximate cause political; to this day there is no consensus on the underlying factors. Also: > The saving grace has always been the outside: when one nation, one civilization, faltered, another picked up the torch and carried on; but with the march of globalization, there may soon be no more outside. Perhaps the direction the world is going in the last couple of years, with less unity, is not that bad.
    - leaflets2 4y ago
      > less unity Angrier and angrier narcissist dictators with nukes? -- less unity yes. Does it increase safety? Yes beautiful text
      - brabel 4y ago
        It's a double-edged sword... if we want to have multiple competing civilizations, it's unavoidable they will conflict with each other (I'm pretty sure you'll always view the "other" guys as angry and evil no matter what they do, just as "they" see you the same way). That may be a necessary evil though in the really long term.
        4y ago
dereg 4y ago
This is such a simple and lazy way to think about the world.
- leaflets2 4y ago
  What don't you like about it? How is it any lazy I found especially the Fermi paradox interesting (throwawayacc2 thanks for mentioning)

withinboredom 4y ago

We could also just have a lucky sun. It hasn’t flared on us in a hundred years or so. Maybe other systems aren’t so lucky and they can’t use electricity like we can. Hell, the next time it does flare up, we will probably go back to a preindustrial society for a decade or so.

jprd 4y ago

While a completely valid theory (and thank you for sharing it here), that is super dark. There just seems to be so much we know we don't know, that to theorize we're the pinnacle of what civilization can be is...gauche? Insanely short sighted and Sol-centric? I dunno, I'm obviously not a theoretical physicist or conducting well thought out experiments testing those theories - but it just seems defeatist and lame. We have a visible Universe that has rules and guardrails - that's bonkers and needs to be hacked more.

DAVer98 4y ago
All the best chord progressions are known, all the best formulas for movie scripts are rehashed again and again, it does feel like we are now on borrowed time whenever I hear a bad song or see a bad movie and this is extending to video games now, when most things appear bad these days compared to what came before and they like they should not have been created it means we should not be around doing it. We're done. We did our bit. Its time for our civilization to wind down.
- tharkun__ 4y ago
  I bet there were people saying the same thing about the music hundreds of years ago. Or about theater. Shakespeare, who needs something else? Well, personally I will take a good movie from the past 25 years over Shakespeare any day. A lot of them borrow from Shakespeare or similar of course but I like the rehashes from 15 years ago better than the originals.
cwillu 4y ago
“It was said that in the Age of Legends, there had been horseless carriages that drank the black blood of the earth, long since drained dry. But then, it was said that in the Age of Legends, men had flown to the moon on a pillar of fire. Who took such stories seriously?” https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Ro6QSQaKdhfpeeGpr/why-safety-is-not-safe https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Ro6QSQaKdhfpeeGpr/why-safety...
- brabel 4y ago
  Beautiful text. About the end of the Chinese civilization technological advantage in the 16th century: > War had ravaged the lands, laying waste whole cities. Plague had struck, killing millions, men, women and children buried in mass graves... > (but) the force that put an end to the Chinese arc of progress was deadlier by far than all of these together, yet seemingly intangible as metaphysics. By the 16th century, the fleets had vanished, the proximate cause political; to this day there is no consensus on the underlying factors. Also: > The saving grace has always been the outside: when one nation, one civilization, faltered, another picked up the torch and carried on; but with the march of globalization, there may soon be no more outside. Perhaps the direction the world is going in the last couple of years, with less unity, is not that bad.
  - leaflets2 4y ago
    > less unity Angrier and angrier narcissist dictators with nukes? -- less unity yes. Does it increase safety? Yes beautiful text
    - brabel 4y ago
      It's a double-edged sword... if we want to have multiple competing civilizations, it's unavoidable they will conflict with each other (I'm pretty sure you'll always view the "other" guys as angry and evil no matter what they do, just as "they" see you the same way). That may be a necessary evil though in the really long term.
      - 4y ago

dereg 4y ago

This is such a simple and lazy way to think about the world.

leaflets2 4y ago
What don't you like about it? How is it any lazy I found especially the Fermi paradox interesting (throwawayacc2 thanks for mentioning)