6 ms·

It's a language with over 2k common characters of which most have two pronunciations, and the language is immensely context-dependent. If that doesn't scare yo

It's a language with over 2k common characters of which most have two pronunciations, and the language is immensely context-dependent. If that doesn't scare you, go ahead.

contravariant 4y ago
It's not that bad, most sequences of kanji have just a single (common) way to pronounce them. Although some sequences are completely new, so you need to figure out which word ends where. And the most commonly used kanji also have the highest number of different pronunciations, sometimes in several ways that are impossible to tell apart grammatically (or even semantically, obviously this is almost never annotated, because adding the pronunciation is for words the author thinks you don't know, even when the pronunciation is entirely unambiguous*) *: No I'm not bitter I had way too much trouble figuring out how to annotate Japanese text with the pronunciation to make it vaguely readable, why do you ask?
- innocentoldguy 4y ago
  Most Kanji have at least two ways to pronounce them, the On reading and the Kun reading. For example, 水 (meaning water) can be pronounced as both “Mizu” and “Sui.” Some have a lot more. 下 has two On readings (Ka and Ge) and several Kun readings (Shita, Shimo, Moto, Sa, Kuda, and O). While combinations typically do have one reading, some can have multiple readings, especially people’s names. Still, it is hard for learners to know which reading for individual Kanji’s are the right ones a lot of times. EDIT: Fixed a couple of typos and a premature submit.
  - contravariant 4y ago
    While those readings might be technically possible, usually only a few of them form a known word. For instance 水 in isolation is (almost?) never pronounced 'sui'. To say it has 2 different pronunciations is a bit like pointing out 'ou' has about 4~5 different pronunciations in English.
    - innocentoldguy 4y ago
      Thanks for your reply. Maybe I can help clear this up a bit. > "While those readings might be technically possible, usually only a few of them form a known word." Are you suggesting that these various readings are academic and not commonly used? If so, that is incorrect. All the readings are used in common words. Here are examples of both the On and Kun readings for the kanji 水 being used: 水道: Pronounced "suido" and means "water supply" or "water service." 水着: Pronounced "mizugi" and means "swimsuit." Here are examples of both the On readings for the kanji 下 being used: 下降: Pronounced "kakou" and means "descent." 下水: Pronounced "gesui" and means "sewer." Here are examples of all the Kun readings for the kanji 下 being used: 下着: Pronounced "shitagi" and means "underwear." 下々: Pronounced "shimojimo" and means "commoners" or "common people". 法の下 (can also be written as 法の元): Pronounced "hounomoto" and means "under the law." 下さい: Pronounced "kudasai" and means "please." 下りる: Pronounced "oriru" and means "to get off." Your comparison to the various pronunciations of "ou" in English seems off as well. For example, if you mispronounce "cough" using the "ou" pronunciation of "rough," you'll sound weird but will most likely be understood. However, if you misread "oriru" (下りる) as "kariru," using the On reading "KA" instead of the correct Kun reading, you'd be verbalizing a completely different word. Instead of telling others you're getting off of something, you'd be saying you're borrowing something. I'd characterize your example of "ou" as a mispronunciation in English, whereas your example in Japanese would be a misreading. I hope this helps. EDIT: Fixed a typo.
      - contravariant 4y ago
        Thanks for the detailed response. I think I do understand your point. In my (limited) experience so far however I find myself remembering the words themselves, rather than work out their pronunciation from their constituent kanji. To me working from the pronunciations of the kanji themselves is like trying to pronounce 'cough' by fitting together pronunciations for 'c', 'ou', and 'gh' (all of which have several options interestingly enough).
        innocentoldguy 4y ago
        I can see your point. Upvoting for your cordiality.
nine_k 4y ago
Kanji are fun to learn, because they are constructive to some degree, and actually pictorial to some degree. If you can imagine a language where 2k+ emoji are used as parts of words, with all the combination rules which emoji have, that would give you some idea. But it does tax your memory (nothing compared to Chinese, though!), and takes time when writing by hand. Typing is significantly easier because a reasonable IME gives you variants to choose from when you type the pronunciation.
- Judgmentality 4y ago
  > Kanji are fun to learn, because they are constructive to some degree, and actually pictorial to some degree > actually pictorial to some degree Only in the same sense that star constellations are pictorial. https://youtu.be/unKrseRCOKo https://youtu.be/unKrseRCOKo I really feel like this is appropriate.
  - minikomi 4y ago
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uD0NOhrPyEM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uD0NOhrPyEM I thought you were going to link this guy but both work :)
  - Izkata 4y ago
    There are some that are kinda funny when you first see them, for example: Tree: 木 Forest: 森
    - thematrixturtle 4y ago
      Person: 人 Rest: 休 (person leaning against a tree)
      - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
        So you can't say "rest" without mentioning a tree? Finnish is funny in similar ways due to its ubiquitous forests. To "hunt" is "metsästää", "metsä" being "forest" the place you went to look for food.

It's a language with over 2k common characters of which most have two pronunciations, and the language is immensely context-dependent. If that doesn't scare you, go ahead.

contravariant 4y ago

It's not that bad, most sequences of kanji have just a single (common) way to pronounce them. Although some sequences are completely new, so you need to figure out which word ends where. And the most commonly used kanji also have the highest number of different pronunciations, sometimes in several ways that are impossible to tell apart grammatically (or even semantically, obviously this is almost never annotated, because adding the pronunciation is for words the author thinks you don't know, even when the pronunciation is entirely unambiguous*) *: No I'm not bitter I had way too much trouble figuring out how to annotate Japanese text with the pronunciation to make it vaguely readable, why do you ask?

innocentoldguy 4y ago
Most Kanji have at least two ways to pronounce them, the On reading and the Kun reading. For example, 水 (meaning water) can be pronounced as both “Mizu” and “Sui.” Some have a lot more. 下 has two On readings (Ka and Ge) and several Kun readings (Shita, Shimo, Moto, Sa, Kuda, and O). While combinations typically do have one reading, some can have multiple readings, especially people’s names. Still, it is hard for learners to know which reading for individual Kanji’s are the right ones a lot of times. EDIT: Fixed a couple of typos and a premature submit.
- contravariant 4y ago
  While those readings might be technically possible, usually only a few of them form a known word. For instance 水 in isolation is (almost?) never pronounced 'sui'. To say it has 2 different pronunciations is a bit like pointing out 'ou' has about 4~5 different pronunciations in English.
  - innocentoldguy 4y ago
    Thanks for your reply. Maybe I can help clear this up a bit. > "While those readings might be technically possible, usually only a few of them form a known word." Are you suggesting that these various readings are academic and not commonly used? If so, that is incorrect. All the readings are used in common words. Here are examples of both the On and Kun readings for the kanji 水 being used: 水道: Pronounced "suido" and means "water supply" or "water service." 水着: Pronounced "mizugi" and means "swimsuit." Here are examples of both the On readings for the kanji 下 being used: 下降: Pronounced "kakou" and means "descent." 下水: Pronounced "gesui" and means "sewer." Here are examples of all the Kun readings for the kanji 下 being used: 下着: Pronounced "shitagi" and means "underwear." 下々: Pronounced "shimojimo" and means "commoners" or "common people". 法の下 (can also be written as 法の元): Pronounced "hounomoto" and means "under the law." 下さい: Pronounced "kudasai" and means "please." 下りる: Pronounced "oriru" and means "to get off." Your comparison to the various pronunciations of "ou" in English seems off as well. For example, if you mispronounce "cough" using the "ou" pronunciation of "rough," you'll sound weird but will most likely be understood. However, if you misread "oriru" (下りる) as "kariru," using the On reading "KA" instead of the correct Kun reading, you'd be verbalizing a completely different word. Instead of telling others you're getting off of something, you'd be saying you're borrowing something. I'd characterize your example of "ou" as a mispronunciation in English, whereas your example in Japanese would be a misreading. I hope this helps. EDIT: Fixed a typo.
    - contravariant 4y ago
      Thanks for the detailed response. I think I do understand your point. In my (limited) experience so far however I find myself remembering the words themselves, rather than work out their pronunciation from their constituent kanji. To me working from the pronunciations of the kanji themselves is like trying to pronounce 'cough' by fitting together pronunciations for 'c', 'ou', and 'gh' (all of which have several options interestingly enough).
      - innocentoldguy 4y ago
        I can see your point. Upvoting for your cordiality.

nine_k 4y ago

Kanji are fun to learn, because they are constructive to some degree, and actually pictorial to some degree. If you can imagine a language where 2k+ emoji are used as parts of words, with all the combination rules which emoji have, that would give you some idea. But it does tax your memory (nothing compared to Chinese, though!), and takes time when writing by hand. Typing is significantly easier because a reasonable IME gives you variants to choose from when you type the pronunciation.

Judgmentality 4y ago
> Kanji are fun to learn, because they are constructive to some degree, and actually pictorial to some degree > actually pictorial to some degree Only in the same sense that star constellations are pictorial. https://youtu.be/unKrseRCOKo https://youtu.be/unKrseRCOKo I really feel like this is appropriate.
- minikomi 4y ago
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uD0NOhrPyEM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uD0NOhrPyEM I thought you were going to link this guy but both work :)
- Izkata 4y ago
  There are some that are kinda funny when you first see them, for example: Tree: 木 Forest: 森
  - thematrixturtle 4y ago
    Person: 人 Rest: 休 (person leaning against a tree)
    - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
      So you can't say "rest" without mentioning a tree? Finnish is funny in similar ways due to its ubiquitous forests. To "hunt" is "metsästää", "metsä" being "forest" the place you went to look for food.