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> The notebook format is convenient to have some kind of “interactive” programming though, rather than “literate” interactive programming is usually handled by

> The notebook format is convenient to have some kind of “interactive” programming though, rather than “literate” interactive programming is usually handled by the repl, for which you do not need a notebook

kgwgk 4y ago
Of course you don’t! The notebooks are glorified repls and you can also have literate programming without interactive notebooks. What notebooks get you compared to alternatives is both things at the same time.
- medo-bear 4y ago
  my point is similar but restricted to jupyter. i think that that org-mode can offer a much more advanced and complete literate programing environment than jupyter that's far beyond just markdown + repl
  - kgwgk 4y ago
    Agreed. Note how babel is presented, by the way (last point in particular): Babel augments Org code blocks by providing: interactive and programmatic execution of code blocks; code blocks as functions that accept parameters, refer to other code blocks, and can be called remotely; and export to files for literate programming. https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/intro.html https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/intro.html
bobbruno 4y ago
Have you considered that the notebook is an evolution of a repl, with improved visualization and feedback, for for analysis-heavy work? The problem starts when notebooks are used for development and production.
- medo-bear 4y ago
  no because its not supperior to a proper lisp repl which you use to develop and interact with a live production system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read%E2%80%93eval%E2%80%93print_loop#Lisp_specifics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read%E2%80%93eval%E2%80%93pr...
  - bobbruno 4y ago
    Did you mind checking the availability of people with lisp skills vs most other languages used in research and DS? Or the availability of libraries and pace of evolution? If your solution is to teach lisp massively and have everyone just build their tooling, can you explain why it hasn't happened yet, despite lisp being around much longer than most languages in use in this field - and many attempts at what you're suggesting?
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      i only said lisp repl is superior. far more superior actually. whether its popular is a different matter. there are people perfectly content with subpar technology and thats ok. however it doesnt hurt to know that there are alternatives
    - kazinator 4y ago
      I have a sense that there are a quite lot more people with Lisp skills than there are jobs. It should be easy to find Lisp people. And I mean reasonably young people; not like pulling Cobol people out of retirement. Lisps continue to attract new people.
      - medo-bear 4y ago
        lisp is not only feature-cool its even retro-cool :)
    - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
      R is lispy enough for what they're suggesting.

kgwgk 4y ago

Of course you don’t! The notebooks are glorified repls and you can also have literate programming without interactive notebooks. What notebooks get you compared to alternatives is both things at the same time.

medo-bear 4y ago
my point is similar but restricted to jupyter. i think that that org-mode can offer a much more advanced and complete literate programing environment than jupyter that's far beyond just markdown + repl
- kgwgk 4y ago
  Agreed. Note how babel is presented, by the way (last point in particular): Babel augments Org code blocks by providing: interactive and programmatic execution of code blocks; code blocks as functions that accept parameters, refer to other code blocks, and can be called remotely; and export to files for literate programming. https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/intro.html https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/intro.html

bobbruno 4y ago

Have you considered that the notebook is an evolution of a repl, with improved visualization and feedback, for for analysis-heavy work? The problem starts when notebooks are used for development and production.

medo-bear 4y ago
no because its not supperior to a proper lisp repl which you use to develop and interact with a live production system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read%E2%80%93eval%E2%80%93print_loop#Lisp_specifics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read%E2%80%93eval%E2%80%93pr...
- bobbruno 4y ago
  Did you mind checking the availability of people with lisp skills vs most other languages used in research and DS? Or the availability of libraries and pace of evolution? If your solution is to teach lisp massively and have everyone just build their tooling, can you explain why it hasn't happened yet, despite lisp being around much longer than most languages in use in this field - and many attempts at what you're suggesting?
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    i only said lisp repl is superior. far more superior actually. whether its popular is a different matter. there are people perfectly content with subpar technology and thats ok. however it doesnt hurt to know that there are alternatives
  - kazinator 4y ago
    I have a sense that there are a quite lot more people with Lisp skills than there are jobs. It should be easy to find Lisp people. And I mean reasonably young people; not like pulling Cobol people out of retirement. Lisps continue to attract new people.
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      lisp is not only feature-cool its even retro-cool :)
  - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
    R is lispy enough for what they're suggesting.