4 ms·

yeah it was supposed to say literate programming. anyway there is no doubt that org-mode (and jupyter) is an application of literate programming concepts. See h

yeah it was supposed to say literate programming. anyway there is no doubt that org-mode (and jupyter) is an application of literate programming concepts. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literate_programming#Literate_programming_practices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literate_programming#Literate_...

kgwgk 4y ago
But programming is more than writing notebooks. How many python packages are written in literate programming style? How many programs written as notebooks would be actually better if they were structured differently?
- medo-bear 4y ago
  ? i never said that its a one-size-fit-all solution. certainly you would not write a software package in a notebook. but you might write a tutorial, textbook, academic paper, homework, personal notes, etc.
  - kgwgk 4y ago
    My point was that a comment against notebooks being overused - where a different structure would make more sense - is not a necessarily a comment against literate programming. The issues with notebooks - in general - are unrelated to literate programming. The notebook format is convenient to have some kind of “interactive” programming though, rather than “literate”.
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      > The notebook format is convenient to have some kind of “interactive” programming though, rather than “literate” interactive programming is usually handled by the repl, for which you do not need a notebook
      - kgwgk 4y ago
        Of course you don’t! The notebooks are glorified repls and you can also have literate programming without interactive notebooks. What notebooks get you compared to alternatives is both things at the same time.
        medo-bear 4y ago
        my point is similar but restricted to jupyter. i think that that org-mode can offer a much more advanced and complete literate programing environment than jupyter that's far beyond just markdown + repl
        kgwgk 4y ago
        Agreed. Note how babel is presented, by the way (last point in particular): Babel augments Org code blocks by providing: interactive and programmatic execution of code blocks; code blocks as functions that accept parameters, refer to other code blocks, and can be called remotely; and export to files for literate programming. https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/intro.html https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/intro.html
      - bobbruno 4y ago
        Have you considered that the notebook is an evolution of a repl, with improved visualization and feedback, for for analysis-heavy work? The problem starts when notebooks are used for development and production.
        medo-bear 4y ago
        no because its not supperior to a proper lisp repl which you use to develop and interact with a live production system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read%E2%80%93eval%E2%80%93print_loop#Lisp_specifics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read%E2%80%93eval%E2%80%93pr...
        bobbruno 4y ago

kgwgk 4y ago

But programming is more than writing notebooks. How many python packages are written in literate programming style? How many programs written as notebooks would be actually better if they were structured differently?

medo-bear 4y ago
? i never said that its a one-size-fit-all solution. certainly you would not write a software package in a notebook. but you might write a tutorial, textbook, academic paper, homework, personal notes, etc.
- kgwgk 4y ago
  My point was that a comment against notebooks being overused - where a different structure would make more sense - is not a necessarily a comment against literate programming. The issues with notebooks - in general - are unrelated to literate programming. The notebook format is convenient to have some kind of “interactive” programming though, rather than “literate”.
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    > The notebook format is convenient to have some kind of “interactive” programming though, rather than “literate” interactive programming is usually handled by the repl, for which you do not need a notebook
    - kgwgk 4y ago
      Of course you don’t! The notebooks are glorified repls and you can also have literate programming without interactive notebooks. What notebooks get you compared to alternatives is both things at the same time.
      - medo-bear 4y ago
        my point is similar but restricted to jupyter. i think that that org-mode can offer a much more advanced and complete literate programing environment than jupyter that's far beyond just markdown + repl
        kgwgk 4y ago
        Agreed. Note how babel is presented, by the way (last point in particular): Babel augments Org code blocks by providing: interactive and programmatic execution of code blocks; code blocks as functions that accept parameters, refer to other code blocks, and can be called remotely; and export to files for literate programming. https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/intro.html https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/intro.html
    - bobbruno 4y ago
      Have you considered that the notebook is an evolution of a repl, with improved visualization and feedback, for for analysis-heavy work? The problem starts when notebooks are used for development and production.
      - medo-bear 4y ago
        no because its not supperior to a proper lisp repl which you use to develop and interact with a live production system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read%E2%80%93eval%E2%80%93print_loop#Lisp_specifics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read%E2%80%93eval%E2%80%93pr...
        bobbruno 4y ago