9 ms·

Texas requires ‘In God We Trust’ signs in schools. A man wants some in Arabic

42 points by isaacfrond 4y ago

isaacfrond 4y ago
https://archive.ph/twkDB https://archive.ph/twkDB
jleyank 4y ago
Sauce. Goose. Gander. Stuff like this rips the mask off the theocracy that exists in peoples minds or in reality. Sadly, while religious philosophy has admirable aspects it is used for staggering amounts of bigotry. Particularly when it’s adherents ignore it’s tenets that are inconvenient.
londgine 4y ago
https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/SB00797F.htm https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/SB00797F... This is the actual law, which for some reason Washington post and other MSM refuse to link to. It looks like the law actually does require to display "in god we trust" (if given such a sign), but it would be nice for MSM to link to the original source.
- rvz 4y ago
  > but it would be nice for MSM to link to the original source. They won't link it since they are always starving for your clicks and outrage first before anything else.
- someonenice 4y ago
  >> SECTION 2. This Act takes effect immediately if it receives a vote of two-thirds of all the members elected to each house, as provided by Section 39, Article III, Texas Constitution. If this Act does not receive the vote necessary for immediate effect, this Act takes effect September 1, 2021. I am not American - So strange that the act takes effect even if it does not receive the required votes, only a bit later. How does it work ?
  - stonogo 4y ago
    It cites the source. Article 3, section 39: Sec. 39. TIME OF TAKING EFFECT OF LAWS. No law passed by the Legislature, except the general appropriation act, shall take effect or go into force until ninety days after the adjournment of the session at which it was enacted, unless the Legislature shall, by a vote of two-thirds of all the members elected to each House, otherwise direct; said vote to be taken by yeas and nays, and entered upon the journals. The goal here is for laws not to take people by surprise; when a law is passed, it's not active until ninety days has passed, so people have time to learn about the new law and adjust accordingly. If it is believed that an emergency needs the law to be enforced sooner, the Constitution provides a mechanism for that. In short, it does need the required votes to become law, but that is in this process a simple majority; a larger majority is required to bypass the 90-day delay.
    - yread 4y ago
      Thank God the Constitution provides a mechanism to get this emergency law take effect immediately to stop godless schools from throwing away framed posters!
- defrost 4y ago
  > The modern motto of the United States of America, as established in a 1956 law signed by President Dwight D. Eisenhower, is "In God we trust". > The constitutionality of the modern national motto has been questioned with relationship to the separation of church and state outlined in the First Amendment. > In 1970, in Aronow v. United States, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that the motto does not violate the First Amendment to the Constitution. The United States Supreme Court has not ruled on the issue. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_national_motto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_national_motto
  - soco 4y ago
    I'm puzzled how forcing a religious quote doesn't go against religious freedom but I'm not American and probably missing the nuances.
    - akudha 4y ago
      In the current Supreme Court situation, I am not sure if they’d strike down this law, assuming a case against it reaches SC in the first place. Even if this law is challenged in court and is struck down, it is still a win for GOP. They riled up their base over a manufactured issue, diverted their base’s attention from actual issues. This is GOP politics 101 these days.
      - noasaservice 4y ago
        Taniwha 4y ago
        It's not even 'old', the dems have been around a quarter century longer - as a name "GoP" is just propaganda
        noasaservice 4y ago
        Indeed. That's what I was trying to get to. I've actually met people who thought the GOP was good, and Republicans were bad because they didn't understand they were the same thing. Oh, its your turn - phase your lands out!
- eesmith 4y ago
  Okay, so schools have to display "a durable poster or framed copy" which meets the given criteria. (I read "a" as meaning the school isn't forced to display 10,000 such posters, should they be donated. Which a prankster totally would do.) What happens if each of 100 organizations donates a poster? What size does the poster need to be? When does a poster get taken down? Can it be replaced with another poster, should the school administration prefer the other one? What if I donate a 1"x1" poster to a school? If it doesn't currently have one, will they be forced to hang it in a conspicuous place? Can the administration use a 1"x1" donation as a reason to take down a larger one? What if the poster is 40×60 inches, but where the motto is in 6 point text?
  - adwww 4y ago
    This was my immediate thought as well. Sounds like it might become a full time job to hang all the maliciously donated A1 posters.
    - bathtub365 4y ago
      They just won’t do it. Who is going to enforce the law, the conservative police?
kukx 4y ago
I doubt that using a foreign language is in the spirit of the law. Does anyone know a case where trolling was effective in this manner?
- Xylakant 4y ago
  What do you consider „effective“? This will not change the law. It‘s about raising attention to a stupid law and that happens all of the time. Pastafaris, Birds aren’t real, … are doing the same thing. They confront stupid ideas by exposing them. If it makes a few people think about the issue, if it makes some aware of the problem, then it can be considered effective.
  - Asraelite 4y ago
    I don't know if it's what the GP meant but I would just be interested in knowing if it's effective in the legal sense, i.e. if a court would rule that it must be displayed despite not being in English. It looks like it won't work in this case, but other examples of trolling where courts rule in favor of a literal technical interpretation would be funny to see.
    - Xylakant 4y ago
      I don‘t believe their goal is that a court would rule in their favor, though it would certainly be a great outcome for them. I believe that getting the governments lawyer to make up all sorts of justifications is what they’re aiming for, because that exposes how stupid this law is.
- eesmith 4y ago
  Should have started with Spanish. In Texas, Spanish is less foreign than English, as people have been speaking Spanish there for longer than people have been speaking English there. And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Texas#Spanish_in_Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Texas#Spanish_in_... notes "In August 2004, the community of El Cenizo, along the U.S.-Mexico border, made Spanish its official language."
- 4y ago
grecy 4y ago
I like the law that says teachers can lead their students in prayer, and people are suggesting teachers sit down with the Koran and teach that :) https://religionnews.com/2022/06/28/teacher-led-prayer-is-back-in-the-public-schools/ https://religionnews.com/2022/06/28/teacher-led-prayer-is-ba...
Izkata 4y ago
> Texas legislators, Stevens thought, were trolling people who don’t believe in a Judeo-Christian God. > Now, Stevens wants to troll them back. The votes to reaffirm the national motto pass because of a combination of historical significance and that it doesn't specify a religion. It's stated explicitly each time: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/in-god-we-trust-reaffirmed-as-national-motto-again/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/in-god-we-trust-r...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- irishsultan 4y ago
  It doesn't specify a religion only in a very narrow sense. It rules out atheism as invalid, it rules out polytheistic religions (singular god). Stating that somethings is the case does not make it so. The very article you link to states that it was intended to merge Christianity and patriotism, if you can't see how that makes it very much specific to a particular religion (although not specific to a specific church), then I don't see what evidence could convince you.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- unsupp0rted 4y ago
  > The motto has withstood legal challenges from groups that said it violated the separation of church and state. Courts have held that the motto is “ceremonial Deism,” not an official endorsement of religion. Should they have ceremonial atheism too? "In God we don't believe"?
- trilbyglens 4y ago
  Which is funny considering that the muslim and christian gods are actually the same god.
langsoul-com 4y ago
Pretty odd that it's forced to display such a sign, after all, they arent free. Who pays for them? Whether it's the state or school, it'd be pretty expensive.
- mrex 4y ago
  Why is it odd that regulations would require public schools to display the motto of the United States, or the flag of the United States, or any of that? These things seem like exactly what every country does. [edit - This comment is currently at -2, less than 10 minutes after posting it. HN, you're changing, and not for the better...] [edit #2 - I don't think this has been a very good thread at all.]
  - arethuza 4y ago
    I don't remember any flags or mottos from my time at school in Scotland - mind you was a while ago.
    - mrex 4y ago
      I can remember seeing flags in front of schools in every country I've visited, several in the Americas, several in Asia, and several in MENA.
  - jamienicol 4y ago
    It's certainly not normal in my country for schools to display the country's motto or flag, nor do children pledge allegiance to anything. We did sing some hymns though.
    - mrex 4y ago
      >It's certainly not normal in my country for schools to display the country's motto or flag Wow, really? Can I ask what country? In my state it's illegal for the leader of a school to neglect or refuse to display the flag: https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3313.80 https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3313.80 ...maybe this is a US thing?
hulitu 4y ago
> Texas requires ‘In God We Trust’ signs in schools. A man wants some in Arabic They forgot the "l".
keybored 4y ago
Can’t they just reject it on the grounds that America uses English as the de facto language? In Texas they might also allow a Spanish sign but that wouldn’t provoke the same xenophobia.
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  America has no official language. In part for this reason. All languages are welcome.
  - GentWhoCodes 4y ago
    Really? So if I needed to interact with the USA government (appear in court or apply for a driving licence) I'm entitled to do this in the Welsh language? I ask this facetiously, as both English and Welsh have official recognition in Blighty.
    - SauciestGNU 4y ago
      I believe you are actually entitled to use Welsh, and the courts should provide you with an interpreter.
    - vineyardmike 4y ago
      So, I couldn’t find a DMV that would readily provide a welsh driving test (based on their website). That said, they would be required to accommodate and provide a translator. Based on the civil rights act, it is considered discrimination based on nationality to discriminate based on English proficiency, and therefore illegal. https://www.lep.gov/ https://www.lep.gov/
  - keybored 4y ago
    In part for what reason?
albertopv 4y ago
So atheists have no place in Texas, or USA generally speaking, given modern motto "In God we trust"? Abortion, vote restrictions, teachers can lead their students in prayer, religious motto... USA is everyday more similar to Iran. Change my mind.
- gadders 4y ago
  >>USA is everyday more similar to Iran AFAIK the USA isn't hanging gay people from cranes or forcing gay people to change gender. https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/rights-group-iran-executes-gay-men-sodomy-charges-82595118 https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/rights-group-... https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2019/04/04/why-iran-is-a-hub-for-sex-reassignment-surgery https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2019/04/04/... Mind changed yet?
  - bovermyer 4y ago
    Uh, you picked a really bad example. There are plenty of instances in the not-too-distant-past of gay people being assaulted in the USA. And "everyday more similar" is a progression, not an equivalence. A vector, not a single number. I would not put it past the Southern states to enact laws making it difficult or dangerous to be "out" as gay.
    - kevingadd 4y ago
      There are still laws making it illegal to have gay sex on the books in parts of the US, they just aren't usually being enforced. They could start enforcing them any time they want. They're not constitutional, but that hasn't stopped states from doing lots of other unconstitutional things while people sued to block them. Once those suits go to the supreme court, the modern set of judges might validate those laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_Stat... In some cases these laws also criminalize some forms of heterosexual intercourse, as a fun little example of how discriminatory laws targeting the minority can often be repurposed to punish members of the majority who step out of line.
poulpy123 4y ago
it's 2022 not 2002, it should be in russian for the lulz
reportgunner 4y ago
Well if you add arabic why not add other languages too ?
- kevingadd 4y ago
  Yeah, it would make sense to pick for example the 5 or 6 most commonly used written languages on Earth. You'd probably want to include simplified chinese and devanagari, probably spanish as well if only because so many people use it in the Americas.
- pseudalopex 4y ago
  > The Arabic text is meant to invoke Islam and some Christians’ discomfort with that faith, Stevens said.
- Kim_Bruning 4y ago
  Hebrew might be a very good candidate as well. You'd get some interesting fireworks if people demanded those posters got taken down. And of course: Aramaic would be most interesting indeed. So possibly a poster with : Hebrew, Aramaic, and Arabic, the three original languages of 3 major monotheistic religions. I think this also meets the requirement that the only words should be "In God We Trust".
gadders 4y ago
This same text is on dollar bills. Are people refusing to handle cash as well?
refurb 4y ago
It's an odd attempt to troll since just because the statement is in Arabic doesn't infer it's any specific god. I mean, there are plenty of Christian Arabs along side Jewish, Muslim and many other religions. How do they refer to a Christian god? In English?
- xorcist 4y ago
  The fact that it works is telling. But perhaps it should not be surprising. It is quite common for Christian biblical literalists to refer to English translations of the Bible. Surprisingly few even read Armenian.
- Kim_Bruning 4y ago
  This being HN, I guess you might want an actual technical answer. One way might be to compare Quran's Sura 1 to the Lord's prayer in the Bible (either Matthew 6:9– or Luke 11:2- ) , in either arabic or english (or use transliterated) since they overlap. A salient difference is that the Quran uses "God" while the Bible version uses "Our Father". This is due to the fact that Christianity is trinitarian whilst Islam isn't.
BrandoElFollito 4y ago
(not an American) Is there a law in the US that requires every language to be accepted in signage? On other words, why is that person expecting that a donated sign in a random language can be forced to be displayed? If there is such a law, his lawsuit should be a non-brainer (he is assured to win).
- hrunt 4y ago
  No, the US has no official language, but English is the de facto national language. Some laws require official documents (election forms, immigration forms, etc.) in multiple languages. You often see signs including other languages in specific locations depending on the local population (Spanish in the Southwest and Puerto Rico, French near French Canada, Native American near reservations). In addition, some state laws require the use of languages important to their local populations (e.g. Spanish on legal and warning signs in areas with a lot of Spanish-speaking citizens) This particular law is a state law passed in Texas. It requires that schools post any privately donated signs with this message. The law is written in English, so the case is not a slam dunk. A court could find that the law specifies the phrase in English and only applies to signs with the English phrase. This Texas law is an example of the recent trend in the state's politics to leverage private actors to enact policies that may be constitutionally questionable. They also did it with their recent abortion laws, that enable private individual and organizations to sue abortion seekers and providers for facilitating abortions, even if the people bringing suit have no relationship to the abortion activities. The constitutionality of such laws have not been determined in court yet, so they may yet run into issues.
  - BrandoElFollito 4y ago
    > the US has no official language Does it mean that I could address an official body in any language and they are obligated to respond me in it? This sounds like an open door to a lot of abuse. > A court could find that the law specifies the phrase in English and only applies to signs with the English phrase. That's a good point. My main concern was about the mere probability that the case stands in court. (In France for instance, if we had such a law (not gonna happen, hopefully, but who knows), the sign would have to be in French.) So in the case of the Arabic one in Texas, it was either a sure win (if all languages are compulsory to be accepted), or a sure loss (if there is no such a provision). If I understand your comment correctly, there is yet a third case: any language must be accepted, but in this case the letter of the law could be made specific to English (I am just rephrasing what your wrote to make sure I understand correctly). In any case the idea that each and every language is acce^table to deal with official bodies sounds crazy.
Incipient 4y ago
This doesn't seem to be matter of religion, but language? Is it amy different to be asking for the exit signs to be in Arabic?
Balgair 4y ago
I think this is a great opportunity for a whole series of MIT-style hacks: - Put the text on a gay-rights rainbow flag - Put it on a Canadian Flag - Make it a very very small poster - Make it a very very large poster - Make it an ad for your new start-up, with the text very very small in the corner - Put otherwise profane words on the poster but have 'In God We Trust' on it too - Make a word cloud with the text in the word cloud somewhere - Make it as offensive as possible to the writers of the law with 'In God We Trust' on it. Like, ads for The Bunny Ranch, or for your DnD club, ads for the nearest abortion clinic, etc. - Make it useful to the students with the text on it. Put helpful notes about how to use your phone to cheat in class, what teachers you suspect of dating each other, how much the principal makes in a year, etc - Cherry pick laws you want to highlight and have the text on it. - Have it be outright campaign ads for politicians with the text on it In the end, the law is so poorly written that it essential makes staff into full time poster putter-uppers for literally any message you want to have sent. You only need to pay for the poster. This opens up opportunities for the students and teachers.
- number6 4y ago
  "In god we trust? No! Science - works even without trust" Would they be required to hang even this poster?
- eesmith 4y ago
  Most of these are prohibited in the law, which says the poster or framed copy "may not depict any words, images, or other information other than the representations listed in Subdivision (1)". https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/SB00797F.htm https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/SB00797F... The gay-rights rainbow flag would be information encoded in the color. Subdivision (1) allows only a US flag and a state flag. The "other information" clearly prohibits the ads and other text examples you mentioned, leaving only the size as something you could change.
  - Balgair 4y ago
    Maybe just use a really thick font and bad kerning to have the repeated 'In God We Trust' words as a line. Then use that repeated message to outline other words. Here's a really terrible example: https://imgur.com/a/Vwd5uho https://imgur.com/a/Vwd5uho

42 points by isaacfrond 4y ago

https://archive.ph/twkDB https://archive.ph/twkDB

Sauce. Goose. Gander. Stuff like this rips the mask off the theocracy that exists in peoples minds or in reality. Sadly, while religious philosophy has admirable aspects it is used for staggering amounts of bigotry. Particularly when it’s adherents ignore it’s tenets that are inconvenient.

londgine 4y ago

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/SB00797F.htm https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/SB00797F... This is the actual law, which for some reason Washington post and other MSM refuse to link to. It looks like the law actually does require to display "in god we trust" (if given such a sign), but it would be nice for MSM to link to the original source.

rvz 4y ago
> but it would be nice for MSM to link to the original source. They won't link it since they are always starving for your clicks and outrage first before anything else.
someonenice 4y ago
>> SECTION 2. This Act takes effect immediately if it receives a vote of two-thirds of all the members elected to each house, as provided by Section 39, Article III, Texas Constitution. If this Act does not receive the vote necessary for immediate effect, this Act takes effect September 1, 2021. I am not American - So strange that the act takes effect even if it does not receive the required votes, only a bit later. How does it work ?
- stonogo 4y ago
  It cites the source. Article 3, section 39: Sec. 39. TIME OF TAKING EFFECT OF LAWS. No law passed by the Legislature, except the general appropriation act, shall take effect or go into force until ninety days after the adjournment of the session at which it was enacted, unless the Legislature shall, by a vote of two-thirds of all the members elected to each House, otherwise direct; said vote to be taken by yeas and nays, and entered upon the journals. The goal here is for laws not to take people by surprise; when a law is passed, it's not active until ninety days has passed, so people have time to learn about the new law and adjust accordingly. If it is believed that an emergency needs the law to be enforced sooner, the Constitution provides a mechanism for that. In short, it does need the required votes to become law, but that is in this process a simple majority; a larger majority is required to bypass the 90-day delay.
  - yread 4y ago
    Thank God the Constitution provides a mechanism to get this emergency law take effect immediately to stop godless schools from throwing away framed posters!
defrost 4y ago
> The modern motto of the United States of America, as established in a 1956 law signed by President Dwight D. Eisenhower, is "In God we trust". > The constitutionality of the modern national motto has been questioned with relationship to the separation of church and state outlined in the First Amendment. > In 1970, in Aronow v. United States, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that the motto does not violate the First Amendment to the Constitution. The United States Supreme Court has not ruled on the issue. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_national_motto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_national_motto
- soco 4y ago
  I'm puzzled how forcing a religious quote doesn't go against religious freedom but I'm not American and probably missing the nuances.
  - akudha 4y ago
    In the current Supreme Court situation, I am not sure if they’d strike down this law, assuming a case against it reaches SC in the first place. Even if this law is challenged in court and is struck down, it is still a win for GOP. They riled up their base over a manufactured issue, diverted their base’s attention from actual issues. This is GOP politics 101 these days.
    - noasaservice 4y ago
      - Taniwha 4y ago
        It's not even 'old', the dems have been around a quarter century longer - as a name "GoP" is just propaganda
        noasaservice 4y ago
        Indeed. That's what I was trying to get to. I've actually met people who thought the GOP was good, and Republicans were bad because they didn't understand they were the same thing. Oh, its your turn - phase your lands out!
eesmith 4y ago
Okay, so schools have to display "a durable poster or framed copy" which meets the given criteria. (I read "a" as meaning the school isn't forced to display 10,000 such posters, should they be donated. Which a prankster totally would do.) What happens if each of 100 organizations donates a poster? What size does the poster need to be? When does a poster get taken down? Can it be replaced with another poster, should the school administration prefer the other one? What if I donate a 1"x1" poster to a school? If it doesn't currently have one, will they be forced to hang it in a conspicuous place? Can the administration use a 1"x1" donation as a reason to take down a larger one? What if the poster is 40×60 inches, but where the motto is in 6 point text?
- adwww 4y ago
  This was my immediate thought as well. Sounds like it might become a full time job to hang all the maliciously donated A1 posters.
  - bathtub365 4y ago
    They just won’t do it. Who is going to enforce the law, the conservative police?

kukx 4y ago

I doubt that using a foreign language is in the spirit of the law. Does anyone know a case where trolling was effective in this manner?

Xylakant 4y ago
What do you consider „effective“? This will not change the law. It‘s about raising attention to a stupid law and that happens all of the time. Pastafaris, Birds aren’t real, … are doing the same thing. They confront stupid ideas by exposing them. If it makes a few people think about the issue, if it makes some aware of the problem, then it can be considered effective.
- Asraelite 4y ago
  I don't know if it's what the GP meant but I would just be interested in knowing if it's effective in the legal sense, i.e. if a court would rule that it must be displayed despite not being in English. It looks like it won't work in this case, but other examples of trolling where courts rule in favor of a literal technical interpretation would be funny to see.
  - Xylakant 4y ago
    I don‘t believe their goal is that a court would rule in their favor, though it would certainly be a great outcome for them. I believe that getting the governments lawyer to make up all sorts of justifications is what they’re aiming for, because that exposes how stupid this law is.
eesmith 4y ago
Should have started with Spanish. In Texas, Spanish is less foreign than English, as people have been speaking Spanish there for longer than people have been speaking English there. And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Texas#Spanish_in_Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Texas#Spanish_in_... notes "In August 2004, the community of El Cenizo, along the U.S.-Mexico border, made Spanish its official language."
4y ago

grecy 4y ago

I like the law that says teachers can lead their students in prayer, and people are suggesting teachers sit down with the Koran and teach that :) https://religionnews.com/2022/06/28/teacher-led-prayer-is-back-in-the-public-schools/ https://religionnews.com/2022/06/28/teacher-led-prayer-is-ba...

Izkata 4y ago

> Texas legislators, Stevens thought, were trolling people who don’t believe in a Judeo-Christian God. > Now, Stevens wants to troll them back. The votes to reaffirm the national motto pass because of a combination of historical significance and that it doesn't specify a religion. It's stated explicitly each time: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/in-god-we-trust-reaffirmed-as-national-motto-again/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/in-god-we-trust-r...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
irishsultan 4y ago
It doesn't specify a religion only in a very narrow sense. It rules out atheism as invalid, it rules out polytheistic religions (singular god). Stating that somethings is the case does not make it so. The very article you link to states that it was intended to merge Christianity and patriotism, if you can't see how that makes it very much specific to a particular religion (although not specific to a specific church), then I don't see what evidence could convince you.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
unsupp0rted 4y ago
> The motto has withstood legal challenges from groups that said it violated the separation of church and state. Courts have held that the motto is “ceremonial Deism,” not an official endorsement of religion. Should they have ceremonial atheism too? "In God we don't believe"?
trilbyglens 4y ago
Which is funny considering that the muslim and christian gods are actually the same god.

langsoul-com 4y ago

Pretty odd that it's forced to display such a sign, after all, they arent free. Who pays for them? Whether it's the state or school, it'd be pretty expensive.

mrex 4y ago
Why is it odd that regulations would require public schools to display the motto of the United States, or the flag of the United States, or any of that? These things seem like exactly what every country does. [edit - This comment is currently at -2, less than 10 minutes after posting it. HN, you're changing, and not for the better...] [edit #2 - I don't think this has been a very good thread at all.]
- arethuza 4y ago
  I don't remember any flags or mottos from my time at school in Scotland - mind you was a while ago.
  - mrex 4y ago
    I can remember seeing flags in front of schools in every country I've visited, several in the Americas, several in Asia, and several in MENA.
- jamienicol 4y ago
  It's certainly not normal in my country for schools to display the country's motto or flag, nor do children pledge allegiance to anything. We did sing some hymns though.
  - mrex 4y ago
    >It's certainly not normal in my country for schools to display the country's motto or flag Wow, really? Can I ask what country? In my state it's illegal for the leader of a school to neglect or refuse to display the flag: https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3313.80 https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3313.80 ...maybe this is a US thing?

hulitu 4y ago

> Texas requires ‘In God We Trust’ signs in schools. A man wants some in Arabic They forgot the "l".

keybored 4y ago

Can’t they just reject it on the grounds that America uses English as the de facto language? In Texas they might also allow a Spanish sign but that wouldn’t provoke the same xenophobia.

vineyardmike 4y ago
America has no official language. In part for this reason. All languages are welcome.
- GentWhoCodes 4y ago
  Really? So if I needed to interact with the USA government (appear in court or apply for a driving licence) I'm entitled to do this in the Welsh language? I ask this facetiously, as both English and Welsh have official recognition in Blighty.
  - SauciestGNU 4y ago
    I believe you are actually entitled to use Welsh, and the courts should provide you with an interpreter.
  - vineyardmike 4y ago
    So, I couldn’t find a DMV that would readily provide a welsh driving test (based on their website). That said, they would be required to accommodate and provide a translator. Based on the civil rights act, it is considered discrimination based on nationality to discriminate based on English proficiency, and therefore illegal. https://www.lep.gov/ https://www.lep.gov/
- keybored 4y ago
  In part for what reason?

albertopv 4y ago

So atheists have no place in Texas, or USA generally speaking, given modern motto "In God we trust"? Abortion, vote restrictions, teachers can lead their students in prayer, religious motto... USA is everyday more similar to Iran. Change my mind.

gadders 4y ago
>>USA is everyday more similar to Iran AFAIK the USA isn't hanging gay people from cranes or forcing gay people to change gender. https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/rights-group-iran-executes-gay-men-sodomy-charges-82595118 https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/rights-group-... https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2019/04/04/why-iran-is-a-hub-for-sex-reassignment-surgery https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2019/04/04/... Mind changed yet?
- bovermyer 4y ago
  Uh, you picked a really bad example. There are plenty of instances in the not-too-distant-past of gay people being assaulted in the USA. And "everyday more similar" is a progression, not an equivalence. A vector, not a single number. I would not put it past the Southern states to enact laws making it difficult or dangerous to be "out" as gay.
  - kevingadd 4y ago
    There are still laws making it illegal to have gay sex on the books in parts of the US, they just aren't usually being enforced. They could start enforcing them any time they want. They're not constitutional, but that hasn't stopped states from doing lots of other unconstitutional things while people sued to block them. Once those suits go to the supreme court, the modern set of judges might validate those laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_Stat... In some cases these laws also criminalize some forms of heterosexual intercourse, as a fun little example of how discriminatory laws targeting the minority can often be repurposed to punish members of the majority who step out of line.

poulpy123 4y ago

it's 2022 not 2002, it should be in russian for the lulz

reportgunner 4y ago

Well if you add arabic why not add other languages too ?

kevingadd 4y ago
Yeah, it would make sense to pick for example the 5 or 6 most commonly used written languages on Earth. You'd probably want to include simplified chinese and devanagari, probably spanish as well if only because so many people use it in the Americas.
pseudalopex 4y ago
> The Arabic text is meant to invoke Islam and some Christians’ discomfort with that faith, Stevens said.
Kim_Bruning 4y ago
Hebrew might be a very good candidate as well. You'd get some interesting fireworks if people demanded those posters got taken down. And of course: Aramaic would be most interesting indeed. So possibly a poster with : Hebrew, Aramaic, and Arabic, the three original languages of 3 major monotheistic religions. I think this also meets the requirement that the only words should be "In God We Trust".

gadders 4y ago

This same text is on dollar bills. Are people refusing to handle cash as well?

refurb 4y ago

It's an odd attempt to troll since just because the statement is in Arabic doesn't infer it's any specific god. I mean, there are plenty of Christian Arabs along side Jewish, Muslim and many other religions. How do they refer to a Christian god? In English?

xorcist 4y ago
The fact that it works is telling. But perhaps it should not be surprising. It is quite common for Christian biblical literalists to refer to English translations of the Bible. Surprisingly few even read Armenian.
Kim_Bruning 4y ago
This being HN, I guess you might want an actual technical answer. One way might be to compare Quran's Sura 1 to the Lord's prayer in the Bible (either Matthew 6:9– or Luke 11:2- ) , in either arabic or english (or use transliterated) since they overlap. A salient difference is that the Quran uses "God" while the Bible version uses "Our Father". This is due to the fact that Christianity is trinitarian whilst Islam isn't.

BrandoElFollito 4y ago

(not an American) Is there a law in the US that requires every language to be accepted in signage? On other words, why is that person expecting that a donated sign in a random language can be forced to be displayed? If there is such a law, his lawsuit should be a non-brainer (he is assured to win).

hrunt 4y ago
No, the US has no official language, but English is the de facto national language. Some laws require official documents (election forms, immigration forms, etc.) in multiple languages. You often see signs including other languages in specific locations depending on the local population (Spanish in the Southwest and Puerto Rico, French near French Canada, Native American near reservations). In addition, some state laws require the use of languages important to their local populations (e.g. Spanish on legal and warning signs in areas with a lot of Spanish-speaking citizens) This particular law is a state law passed in Texas. It requires that schools post any privately donated signs with this message. The law is written in English, so the case is not a slam dunk. A court could find that the law specifies the phrase in English and only applies to signs with the English phrase. This Texas law is an example of the recent trend in the state's politics to leverage private actors to enact policies that may be constitutionally questionable. They also did it with their recent abortion laws, that enable private individual and organizations to sue abortion seekers and providers for facilitating abortions, even if the people bringing suit have no relationship to the abortion activities. The constitutionality of such laws have not been determined in court yet, so they may yet run into issues.
- BrandoElFollito 4y ago
  > the US has no official language Does it mean that I could address an official body in any language and they are obligated to respond me in it? This sounds like an open door to a lot of abuse. > A court could find that the law specifies the phrase in English and only applies to signs with the English phrase. That's a good point. My main concern was about the mere probability that the case stands in court. (In France for instance, if we had such a law (not gonna happen, hopefully, but who knows), the sign would have to be in French.) So in the case of the Arabic one in Texas, it was either a sure win (if all languages are compulsory to be accepted), or a sure loss (if there is no such a provision). If I understand your comment correctly, there is yet a third case: any language must be accepted, but in this case the letter of the law could be made specific to English (I am just rephrasing what your wrote to make sure I understand correctly). In any case the idea that each and every language is acce^table to deal with official bodies sounds crazy.

Incipient 4y ago

This doesn't seem to be matter of religion, but language? Is it amy different to be asking for the exit signs to be in Arabic?

Balgair 4y ago

I think this is a great opportunity for a whole series of MIT-style hacks: - Put the text on a gay-rights rainbow flag - Put it on a Canadian Flag - Make it a very very small poster - Make it a very very large poster - Make it an ad for your new start-up, with the text very very small in the corner - Put otherwise profane words on the poster but have 'In God We Trust' on it too - Make a word cloud with the text in the word cloud somewhere - Make it as offensive as possible to the writers of the law with 'In God We Trust' on it. Like, ads for The Bunny Ranch, or for your DnD club, ads for the nearest abortion clinic, etc. - Make it useful to the students with the text on it. Put helpful notes about how to use your phone to cheat in class, what teachers you suspect of dating each other, how much the principal makes in a year, etc - Cherry pick laws you want to highlight and have the text on it. - Have it be outright campaign ads for politicians with the text on it In the end, the law is so poorly written that it essential makes staff into full time poster putter-uppers for literally any message you want to have sent. You only need to pay for the poster. This opens up opportunities for the students and teachers.

number6 4y ago
"In god we trust? No! Science - works even without trust" Would they be required to hang even this poster?
eesmith 4y ago
Most of these are prohibited in the law, which says the poster or framed copy "may not depict any words, images, or other information other than the representations listed in Subdivision (1)". https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/SB00797F.htm https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/SB00797F... The gay-rights rainbow flag would be information encoded in the color. Subdivision (1) allows only a US flag and a state flag. The "other information" clearly prohibits the ads and other text examples you mentioned, leaving only the size as something you could change.
- Balgair 4y ago
  Maybe just use a really thick font and bad kerning to have the repeated 'In God We Trust' words as a line. Then use that repeated message to outline other words. Here's a really terrible example: https://imgur.com/a/Vwd5uho https://imgur.com/a/Vwd5uho