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I believe this is SpaceX trying to stay one step ahead of Apple. Anyone else remember this strange rumor about iPhones including satellite capability a year ag

I believe this is SpaceX trying to stay one step ahead of Apple. Anyone else remember this strange rumor about iPhones including satellite capability a year ago? https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/29/iphone-13-to-feature-leo-to-make-calls-and-text/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/29/iphone-13-to-feature-le... Now you have Apple’s event in a couple weeks themed “Far Out” with space pictures. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Apple announced something similar, possibly with Globalstar instead. Of course, Apple’s solution will likely only work with iMessage. So of course Musk comes out first, with the “we are doing it too, but it will work with any phone.” Interesting times.

bhauer 4y ago
If you are right, T-Mobile's effort to get Apple onboard with making the necessary changes to separate iMessage payload from regular cell data on these special low-bandwidth space-cells could be a challenge.
- fragmede 4y ago
  Not really. Apple gives T-Mobile the hostnames/IP addresses they use for iMessage, and T-Mobile configures their APN to only allow connections to those addresses. There's a lot that happens on the backend for cell data to work that consumers don't see.
  - jahlove 4y ago
    They need to know more about the payload, so that they don't try to upload a video through starling, for instance.
    - vineyardmike 4y ago
      Already solved on in-flight wifi.
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  They figured it out for the free inflight wifi that allows messaging.
  - yurishimo 4y ago
    That isn't anything special. Every smartphone can send SMS over wifi. You need to connect to the in-flight wifi to use the service. The router on the plane has a hole in the firewall that allows unpaid users to access the specific HTTP server to send and receive SMS messages. Absolutely nothing special about it.
    - rlt 4y ago
      Eventually this would be no different: Starlink can provide (firewalled) data service to iPhones to support messaging apps. Speculation is that initially there would be a small number of satellites periodically passing overhead, leading to the 30 minute send/receive times, and likely not supporting non-SMS messaging apps well.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
CharlesW 4y ago
> Of course, Apple’s solution will likely only work with iMessage. What makes you think that? (Messages doesn’t need to be on your carrier’s network to send/receive MMS/SMS messages.)
- Infinitesimus 4y ago
  There isn't really an incentive for them to support anything beyond iMessage for now. End game will be their own private networks but that's still a while away
- ProfessorZoom 4y ago
  Because Apple loves to keep a walled garden
- ericabiz 4y ago
  I wasn’t looking at this from a technical perspective, more of a business/finance/operations perspective. This is Apple we are talking about. They wouldn’t make this play without some form of vendor lock-in. They will probably choose to lock in based on hardware (“must have iPhone 14 for this capability!”) — but I wouldn’t be surprised to see them lock in on the software side as well. If I were Tim Cook, I might play both sides. “Bandwidth is limited, so for now, this will only work with iMessage.” This gives them room to open it up later for more good PR, and allows them to test the reaction of having it only work with their proprietary software. I have no insider knowledge here. I follow this space closely due to co-owning an independent repair business that primarily works on Apple products.
  - dmix 4y ago
    iMessage seems like an odd choice to single out for lock in though. This is a whole network, I doubt it will be integrated directly with services. There’s not any precedent for anyone else doing that (besides maybe Facebook with their phones). Despite the fears about net neutrality.
    - fragmede 4y ago
extheat 4y ago
Apple phones are a lot less ubiquitous than general cell phones. Anything with an antenna and a (e)SIM card can get access to the T-mobile network, so what Apple is providing might be nice but I can't see how they compete at the level SpaceX can. And the global regulatory approvals needed will be a problem for everyone.
- JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
  47% of smartphones in the USA are Apple. Seems pretty ubiquitous. T-mobile has 110 million subscribers and the population of USA is 329 million people.
  - imwillofficial 4y ago
    They don’t even have a majority, much less ubiquity.
    - atyppo 4y ago
      Spend some time in an affluent neighborhood in a large metro area and I think you'll realize that isn't true. I sure don't know any Tribeca or Pacific Heights residents with Androids.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - alphabettsy 4y ago
      iPhones are the plurality. If you have a few random people together in the US there’s a good chance one of them in an iPhone. Pretty sure that’s what they meant.
    - fastball 4y ago
      Ubiquity is not a step above majority. It's a separate concept.
      - 4y ago
BurningFrog 4y ago
Today's announcement says my existing T-Mobile phone already had satellite capability!! They just need to get the satellites up.
- vlovich123 4y ago
  And your existing Tesla can do FSD with its current sensor package. Any day now.
  - thepasswordis 4y ago
    My current Tesla started doing FSD almost a year ago.
    - vlovich123 4y ago
      Let me clarify. Musk claimed 6 years ago [1] that shipping Teslas would be capable of Level 5 autonomy. While Tesla’s markets their feature as “full self driving” it’s a far cry from even level 3 afaik. It’s kind of sad people fall for this. It also has lethal consequences as people assume it can do things it very well can’t (cruise control+ is really what the feature is). It’s a very obvious grift and SEC and FTC regulators have apparently been asleep at the wheel to enforce it. Wouldn’t surprise me if there’s a shareholder lawsuit at some point. Certainly if the stock collapses once someone beats Tesla to level 5. [1] https://www.motortrend.com/news/new-tesla-models-will-feature-level-5-capable-autopilot-hardware/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/new-tesla-models-will-featur...
      - dailykoder 4y ago
        Musk already admitted that he was very wrong about FSD and that it's not that easy. Sure his talk was dumb and a lot of people fell for it, but that's just how marketing works.
        babypuncher 4y ago
        I mean, he still took a bunch of people's money for the feature, then didn't give it back after admitting L5 wasn't coming any time soon.
phillipseamore 4y ago
From the rumours I've heard, OneWeb is involved with that. OneWeb sats are basically LTE basestations.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  The current once are not, they are a technology level behind what even Starlink v1 is. Maybe some future OneWeb will be able to do it, but not for a long time.
mr_toad 4y ago
> Of course, Apple’s solution will likely only work with iMessage. If I’m in the middle of nowhere and need to send an urgent message I wouldn’t want to be worrying about whether the recipient had an Android phone.
- cheschire 4y ago
  This conversation is a frequent annoyance for me. I’m tired of asking folks if they have Apple or Signal available just to send a photo. MMS is unreliable and opaque to most folks it seems since pictures never seem to get through if they’re on android.
  - Melatonic 4y ago
    Same is true for android to android - it does a much higher quality non MMS. Unfortunately neither Google nor Apple will open up their damn protocol to the other.
    - Stevvo 4y ago
      https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ This page, from Google, makes it quite clear their protocol is an open standard, and Apple are the only closed one.
      - Melatonic 4y ago
        There are no android clients that can do it besides google messages. Google also has their own version of RCS that only works messages to messages. Carriers also have a version of RCS but its not quite the same. Apple could and should totally adopt the carrier version of RCS though. And it would be great if Google would let apps like Textra in too
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  Because clearly nobody has ever been able to send a text message from an iPhone to an Android device.
Axien 4y ago
Apple, as far as I know, does not own spectrum. Therefore I doubt it is an Apple thing. More likely an AT&T or Verizon thing. And the service works on the iPhone.
panick21_ 4y ago
Apple can talk about what they like, between Starlink and Kupter there is little available heavy lift for a long time to come.
LightG 4y ago
Of course, despite Musk's largesse, no one is really going to give af about it. The Apple Event will put it front and centre. Musk coukd have announced it a year ago, it wouldn't have mattered.

bhauer 4y ago

If you are right, T-Mobile's effort to get Apple onboard with making the necessary changes to separate iMessage payload from regular cell data on these special low-bandwidth space-cells could be a challenge.

fragmede 4y ago
Not really. Apple gives T-Mobile the hostnames/IP addresses they use for iMessage, and T-Mobile configures their APN to only allow connections to those addresses. There's a lot that happens on the backend for cell data to work that consumers don't see.
- jahlove 4y ago
  They need to know more about the payload, so that they don't try to upload a video through starling, for instance.
  - vineyardmike 4y ago
    Already solved on in-flight wifi.
vineyardmike 4y ago
They figured it out for the free inflight wifi that allows messaging.
- yurishimo 4y ago
  That isn't anything special. Every smartphone can send SMS over wifi. You need to connect to the in-flight wifi to use the service. The router on the plane has a hole in the firewall that allows unpaid users to access the specific HTTP server to send and receive SMS messages. Absolutely nothing special about it.
  - rlt 4y ago
    Eventually this would be no different: Starlink can provide (firewalled) data service to iPhones to support messaging apps. Speculation is that initially there would be a small number of satellites periodically passing overhead, leading to the 30 minute send/receive times, and likely not supporting non-SMS messaging apps well.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

CharlesW 4y ago

> Of course, Apple’s solution will likely only work with iMessage. What makes you think that? (Messages doesn’t need to be on your carrier’s network to send/receive MMS/SMS messages.)

Infinitesimus 4y ago
There isn't really an incentive for them to support anything beyond iMessage for now. End game will be their own private networks but that's still a while away
ProfessorZoom 4y ago
Because Apple loves to keep a walled garden
ericabiz 4y ago
I wasn’t looking at this from a technical perspective, more of a business/finance/operations perspective. This is Apple we are talking about. They wouldn’t make this play without some form of vendor lock-in. They will probably choose to lock in based on hardware (“must have iPhone 14 for this capability!”) — but I wouldn’t be surprised to see them lock in on the software side as well. If I were Tim Cook, I might play both sides. “Bandwidth is limited, so for now, this will only work with iMessage.” This gives them room to open it up later for more good PR, and allows them to test the reaction of having it only work with their proprietary software. I have no insider knowledge here. I follow this space closely due to co-owning an independent repair business that primarily works on Apple products.
- dmix 4y ago
  iMessage seems like an odd choice to single out for lock in though. This is a whole network, I doubt it will be integrated directly with services. There’s not any precedent for anyone else doing that (besides maybe Facebook with their phones). Despite the fears about net neutrality.
  - fragmede 4y ago

extheat 4y ago

Apple phones are a lot less ubiquitous than general cell phones. Anything with an antenna and a (e)SIM card can get access to the T-mobile network, so what Apple is providing might be nice but I can't see how they compete at the level SpaceX can. And the global regulatory approvals needed will be a problem for everyone.

JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
47% of smartphones in the USA are Apple. Seems pretty ubiquitous. T-mobile has 110 million subscribers and the population of USA is 329 million people.
- imwillofficial 4y ago
  They don’t even have a majority, much less ubiquity.
  - atyppo 4y ago
    Spend some time in an affluent neighborhood in a large metro area and I think you'll realize that isn't true. I sure don't know any Tribeca or Pacific Heights residents with Androids.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - alphabettsy 4y ago
    iPhones are the plurality. If you have a few random people together in the US there’s a good chance one of them in an iPhone. Pretty sure that’s what they meant.
  - fastball 4y ago
    Ubiquity is not a step above majority. It's a separate concept.
    - 4y ago

BurningFrog 4y ago

Today's announcement says my existing T-Mobile phone already had satellite capability!! They just need to get the satellites up.

vlovich123 4y ago
And your existing Tesla can do FSD with its current sensor package. Any day now.
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  My current Tesla started doing FSD almost a year ago.
  - vlovich123 4y ago
    Let me clarify. Musk claimed 6 years ago [1] that shipping Teslas would be capable of Level 5 autonomy. While Tesla’s markets their feature as “full self driving” it’s a far cry from even level 3 afaik. It’s kind of sad people fall for this. It also has lethal consequences as people assume it can do things it very well can’t (cruise control+ is really what the feature is). It’s a very obvious grift and SEC and FTC regulators have apparently been asleep at the wheel to enforce it. Wouldn’t surprise me if there’s a shareholder lawsuit at some point. Certainly if the stock collapses once someone beats Tesla to level 5. [1] https://www.motortrend.com/news/new-tesla-models-will-feature-level-5-capable-autopilot-hardware/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/new-tesla-models-will-featur...
    - dailykoder 4y ago
      Musk already admitted that he was very wrong about FSD and that it's not that easy. Sure his talk was dumb and a lot of people fell for it, but that's just how marketing works.
      - babypuncher 4y ago
        I mean, he still took a bunch of people's money for the feature, then didn't give it back after admitting L5 wasn't coming any time soon.

phillipseamore 4y ago

From the rumours I've heard, OneWeb is involved with that. OneWeb sats are basically LTE basestations.

panick21_ 4y ago
The current once are not, they are a technology level behind what even Starlink v1 is. Maybe some future OneWeb will be able to do it, but not for a long time.

mr_toad 4y ago

> Of course, Apple’s solution will likely only work with iMessage. If I’m in the middle of nowhere and need to send an urgent message I wouldn’t want to be worrying about whether the recipient had an Android phone.

cheschire 4y ago
This conversation is a frequent annoyance for me. I’m tired of asking folks if they have Apple or Signal available just to send a photo. MMS is unreliable and opaque to most folks it seems since pictures never seem to get through if they’re on android.
- Melatonic 4y ago
  Same is true for android to android - it does a much higher quality non MMS. Unfortunately neither Google nor Apple will open up their damn protocol to the other.
  - Stevvo 4y ago
    https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ This page, from Google, makes it quite clear their protocol is an open standard, and Apple are the only closed one.
    - Melatonic 4y ago
      There are no android clients that can do it besides google messages. Google also has their own version of RCS that only works messages to messages. Carriers also have a version of RCS but its not quite the same. Apple could and should totally adopt the carrier version of RCS though. And it would be great if Google would let apps like Textra in too
KennyBlanken 4y ago
Because clearly nobody has ever been able to send a text message from an iPhone to an Android device.

Axien 4y ago

Apple, as far as I know, does not own spectrum. Therefore I doubt it is an Apple thing. More likely an AT&T or Verizon thing. And the service works on the iPhone.

panick21_ 4y ago

Apple can talk about what they like, between Starlink and Kupter there is little available heavy lift for a long time to come.

LightG 4y ago

Of course, despite Musk's largesse, no one is really going to give af about it. The Apple Event will put it front and centre. Musk coukd have announced it a year ago, it wouldn't have mattered.