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10X developers exist, and its painful for existing senior software engineers to welcome one on the team. They are also much rarer than people want to admit, and

10X developers exist, and its painful for existing senior software engineers to welcome one on the team. They are also much rarer than people want to admit, and don't write software the way a "good senior engineer" does.

sdwr 4y ago
Mind elaborating on this? This is a fresh take for me. Are you saying a 10x dev writes code optimized for their own velocity, at the expense of accessibility/teamwork?
- hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
  I consider myself above average and a key distinction is not wanting to build complexity. Microservices, k8s, fancy languages, or integration into things like Dynamica CRM are all generally mistakes unless you have a very good reason for doing so. I also spent a lot of time optimising my workflow, which leverages build/test on change and large volumes of automations. Unit tests are also key.
  - yupper32 4y ago
    I've had people on my team with these views and often their expectations need to be re-calibrated. They want to spend their time rewriting the codebase their way instead of being actually productive. Those people are not 10x engineers, despite them sometimes thinking they are. (Not saying that's you, I don't know you).
    - hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
      I think that re-engineering code based needs to be a calculated decisions, but i also think that there’s a large amount of resume driven development too. There are places where there’s a need for k8s and similar, but largely that’s when you’re at google level scale. For the rest of us plebs, maybe leveraging simpler paas solutions or traditional mechanisms are more effective. Except CRM. If you’re building in CRM you’re just making a mess, no matter what the rationale is.
  - IncRnd 4y ago
    You seem to be describing anything but the lowest common demoninator as unwanted complexity.
    - hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
      Yes. Complexity is the root cause of many systemic issues in many projects I see. I see probably 2-3 medium applications every month. Either things are totally engineered or under-engineered (e.g., traditional php/aspx applications).
- turtlebits 4y ago
  Anyone can be a 10x engineer, if you don't write any specs or go through planning, ignore architecture/deployment/monitoring best practices. And uses a language / framework/ tech stack that only they are familiar with. Of course you'll royally screw over the rest of the company/team that has to productionalize, maintain your code + spaghetti of services after you leave.
  - EduardoRT 4y ago
    That doesn't sound like a 10x developer at all, sounds like a bad developer that prioritizes dumping code, 10x developer would write docs, spend time planning the architecture and removing complexity from systems.
  - mbrodersen 4y ago
    What you are describing is not a 10x developer.
marcell 4y ago
10x engineers definitely exist. There are 10x basketball players, 10x boxers, 10x guitarists. Why would there not be 10x programmers? Further, if programming skill follows a normal distribution, the 10x programmer bucket is under 1% of the population. You, dear reader, are probably not a 10x programmer. The true 10x programmers will not have 10x productivity in most giant tech companies. Google and friends have put in place mountains of progress in pursuit of downside protection (eg extensive testing, release barriers, and so on). Google invented Golang partly to address issues with mid level programmers being unable to code well. These downside protections also blunt any benefit a 10x programmer could have, which is why so many people claim to have never seen them.
- britzkopf 4y ago
  I believe I can run at top speed of ~20km/hr - pretty average. The fastest person in the world tops out around 40. Where are the 10x runners?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
    Whoever invented the bike, and then the car, airplane etc
    - britzkopf 4y ago
      So these 10x developers have access to a totally different set of high power tools?
      - ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
        No they think outside the box and have massive leverage through code
  - unreal37 4y ago
    "A 100 mile run can take just 12 hours for the most elite runners and as long as 48 hours for the back of the pack racers. There are so many factors that can vary finishing times." There are 4X runners I guess.
yupper32 4y ago
> its painful for existing senior software engineers to welcome one on the team Huh? Why would that be?
- notmelgibson 4y ago
  - yupper32 4y ago
    In my experience those who implement before process leave out important cross team requirements and/or blow their political capital right away. Or they spend their time doing things like unsolicited refactors or migrations or rearchitecting. They're forgiven for a project or two but eventually people get tired of it because it's not sustatinable. Those are not 10x engineers. Real 10x engineers know how to deal with politics and process on top of the actual engineering. Those are rare but absolutely amazing to work with.
    - notmelgibson 4y ago
IncRnd 4y ago
There are many 10x developers as well as even 20x or higher. Many. There are also many who aren't, averages being what they are. In their own ways, they are similar to people who speak 10 different languages and who can also take to a new language like a fish gliding in water.

sdwr 4y ago

Mind elaborating on this? This is a fresh take for me. Are you saying a 10x dev writes code optimized for their own velocity, at the expense of accessibility/teamwork?

hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
I consider myself above average and a key distinction is not wanting to build complexity. Microservices, k8s, fancy languages, or integration into things like Dynamica CRM are all generally mistakes unless you have a very good reason for doing so. I also spent a lot of time optimising my workflow, which leverages build/test on change and large volumes of automations. Unit tests are also key.
- yupper32 4y ago
  I've had people on my team with these views and often their expectations need to be re-calibrated. They want to spend their time rewriting the codebase their way instead of being actually productive. Those people are not 10x engineers, despite them sometimes thinking they are. (Not saying that's you, I don't know you).
  - hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
    I think that re-engineering code based needs to be a calculated decisions, but i also think that there’s a large amount of resume driven development too. There are places where there’s a need for k8s and similar, but largely that’s when you’re at google level scale. For the rest of us plebs, maybe leveraging simpler paas solutions or traditional mechanisms are more effective. Except CRM. If you’re building in CRM you’re just making a mess, no matter what the rationale is.
- IncRnd 4y ago
  You seem to be describing anything but the lowest common demoninator as unwanted complexity.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
    Yes. Complexity is the root cause of many systemic issues in many projects I see. I see probably 2-3 medium applications every month. Either things are totally engineered or under-engineered (e.g., traditional php/aspx applications).
turtlebits 4y ago
Anyone can be a 10x engineer, if you don't write any specs or go through planning, ignore architecture/deployment/monitoring best practices. And uses a language / framework/ tech stack that only they are familiar with. Of course you'll royally screw over the rest of the company/team that has to productionalize, maintain your code + spaghetti of services after you leave.
- EduardoRT 4y ago
  That doesn't sound like a 10x developer at all, sounds like a bad developer that prioritizes dumping code, 10x developer would write docs, spend time planning the architecture and removing complexity from systems.
- mbrodersen 4y ago
  What you are describing is not a 10x developer.

marcell 4y ago

10x engineers definitely exist. There are 10x basketball players, 10x boxers, 10x guitarists. Why would there not be 10x programmers? Further, if programming skill follows a normal distribution, the 10x programmer bucket is under 1% of the population. You, dear reader, are probably not a 10x programmer. The true 10x programmers will not have 10x productivity in most giant tech companies. Google and friends have put in place mountains of progress in pursuit of downside protection (eg extensive testing, release barriers, and so on). Google invented Golang partly to address issues with mid level programmers being unable to code well. These downside protections also blunt any benefit a 10x programmer could have, which is why so many people claim to have never seen them.

britzkopf 4y ago
I believe I can run at top speed of ~20km/hr - pretty average. The fastest person in the world tops out around 40. Where are the 10x runners?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
  Whoever invented the bike, and then the car, airplane etc
  - britzkopf 4y ago
    So these 10x developers have access to a totally different set of high power tools?
    - ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
      No they think outside the box and have massive leverage through code
- unreal37 4y ago
  "A 100 mile run can take just 12 hours for the most elite runners and as long as 48 hours for the back of the pack racers. There are so many factors that can vary finishing times." There are 4X runners I guess.

yupper32 4y ago

> its painful for existing senior software engineers to welcome one on the team Huh? Why would that be?

notmelgibson 4y ago
- yupper32 4y ago
  In my experience those who implement before process leave out important cross team requirements and/or blow their political capital right away. Or they spend their time doing things like unsolicited refactors or migrations or rearchitecting. They're forgiven for a project or two but eventually people get tired of it because it's not sustatinable. Those are not 10x engineers. Real 10x engineers know how to deal with politics and process on top of the actual engineering. Those are rare but absolutely amazing to work with.
  - notmelgibson 4y ago

IncRnd 4y ago

There are many 10x developers as well as even 20x or higher. Many. There are also many who aren't, averages being what they are. In their own ways, they are similar to people who speak 10 different languages and who can also take to a new language like a fish gliding in water.