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> but I think this was more of an intentional revenge rather than accidental playfulness. At first blush this struck me as a silly comment, so I read the artic

> but I think this was more of an intentional revenge rather than accidental playfulness. At first blush this struck me as a silly comment, so I read the article... and boy, are you right. It really does sound like an intentional, even methodical killing. Here's the description from the wiki: > As part of the end-of-show routine, [Dawn Brancheau] was at the edge of the pool, rubbing Tilikum's head. She was lying with her face next to Tilikum's on a slide-out, which is a platform submerged about a foot into the water. SeaWorld claims that she was pulled into the water by her ponytail. Some witnesses reported seeing Tilikum grab Brancheau by the arm or shoulder. The orca's move seems to have been very quick, pulling her underwater and drowning her. At least a dozen patrons witnessed Brancheau in the water with Tilikum. Employees used nets and threw food at Tilikum in an attempt to distract him. Moving from pool to pool in the complex, they eventually directed Tilikum to a smaller, medical pool, where it would be easier to calm him. After approximately 45 minutes, Tilikum released Brancheau's body. I suppose I'm anthropomorphizing and making a lot of assumptions, but holding that poor woman under water for 45 minutes strikes me as making sure that she's dead--particularly since its caretakers (who, presumably, have a strong understanding of how to influence its behavior) were actively attempting to entice it to let her go. For 45 minutes. Really wild stuff.

fsckboy 4y ago
A different wikipedia page (about another of the people Tilikum killed) describes the incident differently. I have not investigated all the citations to explain the difference: Tilikum became an infamous whale after attacking and killing his trainer, forty-year-old SeaWorld staff member Dawn Brancheau. Tilikum grabbed her arm, scalped the woman, fractured her jaw and killed her by blunt force trauma, the result of which was a contentious and controversial legal case over the safety of working with orca whales and the ethics of keeping live whales and other marine mammals in captivity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Keltie_Byrne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Keltie_Byrne
bmitc 4y ago
Honestly, it's a bit surprising that people find this surprising. Orcas are air-breathing mammals, and conscious breathers at that. They kill other mammals, namely whales, often by drowning them intentionally. They know what drowning is. The other is that these are massive animals placed in water prisons, constantly exposed to the sun and concrete and fed fish they wouldn't eat in the wild. It would be like putting a human in a small 3'x3' box with the top exposed to the sun and fed dog food and then being surprised that they're on edge. That orca definitely killed the trainer on purpose or did it in a way such that it didn't care whether she lived or died and was releasing frustration. An orca could bite a human in half in the same way that a human can bite through jello, which shows that the orca was displaying frustration and exasperation. Orcas have committed suicide while in captivity, by intentionally and repeatedly ramming their heads into the concrete walls to cause brain hemorrhages or starving themselves. To be frank, it is mindblowing to me that people view these incidences as examples of orca intelligence rather than exhibitions of human cruelty and unintelligence.
- seizethecheese 4y ago
  It can be both. What an unnecessarily confrontational comment.
  - _c3ag 4y ago
    UNNECESSARY? people, including me, went to this type of shit show and had fun. whales drowning humans is a slap on our history edit: and one reaaaaly primitive, you know, mammals only worth when on the sapiens sapiens ballpark
  - bmitc 4y ago
    It shouldn't be both. I'll agree it is confrontational, but I addressed it to people in general, so it's meant to be confrontational to the collective. And it's justifiably so because these beings continue to be held in captivity, bred in captivity, and even captured from the wild to be held in captivity. It's pure torture that people charge for visitors to come and laugh and gawk at.
- ironmagma 4y ago
  > It would be like putting a human in a small 3'x3' box I get that you're trying to make a point, but this kind of hyperbole only discredits it. > Orcas have committed suicide while in captivity, by intentionally and repeatedly ramming their heads into the concrete walls to cause brain hemorrhages I think you mean AN orca did this (Hugo), and it was after being kept in solitary isolation for 12 years, something that SeaWorld thankfully doesn't do.
  - EdwardDiego 4y ago
    > I get that you're trying to make a point, but this kind of hyperbole only discredits it. ...are you going to expand on why you think it's hyperbole?
    - ironmagma 4y ago
      Well, simple ratios. A human is roughly 6 feet tall, so a 3x3x3 box is a box with side length 1/2 of the height. The equivalent for an orca would be if you took an orca’s length, 26 feet, and had the enclosure be 13x13x13. The volume would be 2197 cubic feet, roughly 16,000 gallons that is. Seaworld Orlando’s enclosure is approx 6 million gallons, so that statement is off by about 37,500%.
amelius 4y ago
Could it have been an act of (frustrated) affection instead?
lm28469 4y ago
> that poor woman The poor orca who's been abducted at 2 and kept in a swimming pool for decades for fun and profit you mean ?
- pvaldes 4y ago
  Not, the woman. Check your priorities.

fsckboy 4y ago

A different wikipedia page (about another of the people Tilikum killed) describes the incident differently. I have not investigated all the citations to explain the difference: Tilikum became an infamous whale after attacking and killing his trainer, forty-year-old SeaWorld staff member Dawn Brancheau. Tilikum grabbed her arm, scalped the woman, fractured her jaw and killed her by blunt force trauma, the result of which was a contentious and controversial legal case over the safety of working with orca whales and the ethics of keeping live whales and other marine mammals in captivity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Keltie_Byrne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Keltie_Byrne

bmitc 4y ago

Honestly, it's a bit surprising that people find this surprising. Orcas are air-breathing mammals, and conscious breathers at that. They kill other mammals, namely whales, often by drowning them intentionally. They know what drowning is. The other is that these are massive animals placed in water prisons, constantly exposed to the sun and concrete and fed fish they wouldn't eat in the wild. It would be like putting a human in a small 3'x3' box with the top exposed to the sun and fed dog food and then being surprised that they're on edge. That orca definitely killed the trainer on purpose or did it in a way such that it didn't care whether she lived or died and was releasing frustration. An orca could bite a human in half in the same way that a human can bite through jello, which shows that the orca was displaying frustration and exasperation. Orcas have committed suicide while in captivity, by intentionally and repeatedly ramming their heads into the concrete walls to cause brain hemorrhages or starving themselves. To be frank, it is mindblowing to me that people view these incidences as examples of orca intelligence rather than exhibitions of human cruelty and unintelligence.

seizethecheese 4y ago
It can be both. What an unnecessarily confrontational comment.
- _c3ag 4y ago
  UNNECESSARY? people, including me, went to this type of shit show and had fun. whales drowning humans is a slap on our history edit: and one reaaaaly primitive, you know, mammals only worth when on the sapiens sapiens ballpark
- bmitc 4y ago
  It shouldn't be both. I'll agree it is confrontational, but I addressed it to people in general, so it's meant to be confrontational to the collective. And it's justifiably so because these beings continue to be held in captivity, bred in captivity, and even captured from the wild to be held in captivity. It's pure torture that people charge for visitors to come and laugh and gawk at.
ironmagma 4y ago
> It would be like putting a human in a small 3'x3' box I get that you're trying to make a point, but this kind of hyperbole only discredits it. > Orcas have committed suicide while in captivity, by intentionally and repeatedly ramming their heads into the concrete walls to cause brain hemorrhages I think you mean AN orca did this (Hugo), and it was after being kept in solitary isolation for 12 years, something that SeaWorld thankfully doesn't do.
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  > I get that you're trying to make a point, but this kind of hyperbole only discredits it. ...are you going to expand on why you think it's hyperbole?
  - ironmagma 4y ago
    Well, simple ratios. A human is roughly 6 feet tall, so a 3x3x3 box is a box with side length 1/2 of the height. The equivalent for an orca would be if you took an orca’s length, 26 feet, and had the enclosure be 13x13x13. The volume would be 2197 cubic feet, roughly 16,000 gallons that is. Seaworld Orlando’s enclosure is approx 6 million gallons, so that statement is off by about 37,500%.

amelius 4y ago

Could it have been an act of (frustrated) affection instead?

lm28469 4y ago

> that poor woman The poor orca who's been abducted at 2 and kept in a swimming pool for decades for fun and profit you mean ?

pvaldes 4y ago
Not, the woman. Check your priorities.