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So, moving past the outrage. Any speculation as to what's happening here that's leading to the failure? Why does Tesla feel the video is defamatory? Is it mis

by oehpr 4y ago

So, moving past the outrage. Any speculation as to what's happening here that's leading to the failure? Why does Tesla feel the video is defamatory? Is it mis-representing or being dishonest about the test? edit: I did some more research. This is an actual smear campaign: https://electrek.co/2022/08/10/tesla-self-driving-smear-campaign-releases-test-fails-fsd-never-engaged/ https://electrek.co/2022/08/10/tesla-self-driving-smear-camp...

georgemcbay 4y ago
Tesla/Musk's continued insistence on building the system based on vision cameras alone. I wouldn't trust an auto-braking system as far as I could throw whatever it was installed in without LIDAR as at least a last resort failsafe.
richbell 4y ago
Does it matter whether FSD was enabled? Most newer cars — that don't have fancy computer vision — still have built-in sensors to prevent collisions when the car is "driving" (e.g., above 10km/h). I would expect that to be a core feature of a Tesla vehicle.
- oehpr 4y ago
  Err... yes? This campaign is explicitly calling for the ban of FSD on the grounds that it failed to react to an obstacle on the road. So yes it matters rather a lot.
camjohnson26 4y ago
Has that been confirmed? Electrek is essentially Tesla propaganda and O’Dowd denied the claims, but I haven’t seen independent confirmation of whether the test was valid.
- oehpr 4y ago
  Fair question. But the points Electrek put forward seem pretty reasonable. FSD needs maps to operate, the tests were done on a private field, so the FSD stays off. I'm currently taking these propositions as true, but if they're false then it's one word against another. I remain curious, what exactly is happening here?
  - nmeofthestate 4y ago
    > the tests were done on a private field, so the FSD stays off In the first tweet linked in the article it says the test was run on a public street
    - nomel 4y ago
      What they're driving on in the video in the grandparent's edit is definitely not a public street.
- gentleman11 4y ago
  It seems like the impacts seem to be happening as the auto drive is in the process of disengaging itself and is decelerating to do so, according to the article. That seems like a grey area, but lets say that this is advertised as full autopilot without the need for human intervention (which it is). Then, a case where this autopilot stops working that leads to an accident is still a serious problem - considering the claims by Tesla How can they claim full automatic piloting when the system could turn off when the area you’re driving in isn’t mapped by them? This is based on the articles anyway
  - freejazz 4y ago
    How is it full autopilot if it disengages on its own? It will point your car at a child but then turn off autopilot so you become liable for running over a child? it's so absurd, I'm not sure why anyone would support this approach.
- vardump 4y ago
  Very interesting you'd call out someone for being biased, given your submission history is mostly comprised of negative articles about Tesla.
josephcsible 4y ago
> Why does Tesla feel the video is defamatory? Is it mis-representing or being dishonest about the test? Yes, that's exactly it. The car in question was being manually driven by a human, but the video claimed that it was FSD.
- addisonl 4y ago
  My car will stop for a pedestrian while I manually drive it—why does a Tesla not?
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    By default, it does, but Automatic Emergency Braking can be turned off in settings, and now that we've already established O'Dowd's dishonesty, it doesn't seem like a big stretch that he would have done that too for this video. Remember that a lot of people have recreated this experiment and found that it did stop for all of them.
    - nr2x 4y ago
      Which liar to trust? Feel like I’m voting.
      - josephcsible 4y ago
        While Elon lies a lot about his cars' future capabilities, I don't think he's ever lied about their current capabilities.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  The video here shows that the accelerator pedal isn't pressed. What is making the car speed up if FSD isn't active? https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1559245760054575112 https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1559245760054...
Veserv 4y ago
As you will see in the update at the bottom of that article: “The Dawn Project has since released additional footage that doesn’t appear in its ad where we can see that they were able to activate FSD,”. Here is the raw info. Dawn Project page talking about the commercial: https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-projects-new-advertising-campaign-highlighting-the-dangers-of-teslas-full-self-driving/ https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-projects-new-advertising-ca... Here is a link to the commercial in question: https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1556973572698128385 https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1556973572698... Here is the raw footage for the Dawn Project commercial: https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/raw-footage.mp4 https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/raw-foota... Here is a followup test: https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1559245760054575112 https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1559245760054...
- oehpr 4y ago
  Interesting, that seems to meet the objectors complaints. So... what's with the failure? Why is this happening?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - mlindner 4y ago
    Because they overrode the system by pressing the accelerator. Pressing the accelerator doesn't disable autopilot, it just overrides the speed setting.
    - Veserv 4y ago
      Item 22 of the signed affidavit by the test driver says they did not touch the accelerator while it was in self driving mode. https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Art-Haynie-Affidavit.pdf https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Art-Hayni...
      - 4y ago
gamblor956 4y ago
Somehow, repeatedly calling a guy a pedophile isn't defamation, but showing a video purportedly showing a car self-driving itself into a child is. What a wonderful world Elon Musk must live in. There are dozens of other videos by FSD testers showing FSD's propensity to drive into oncoming traffic, misidentify or not see other vehicles, cyclists, and pedestrians.
mlindner 4y ago
> Any speculation as to what's happening here that's leading to the failure? There's no failure happening. They disabled or overrode the safety features to cause the event shown on video. As has been documented in their own videos by their own clumsiness.

by oehpr 4y ago

georgemcbay 4y ago

Tesla/Musk's continued insistence on building the system based on vision cameras alone. I wouldn't trust an auto-braking system as far as I could throw whatever it was installed in without LIDAR as at least a last resort failsafe.

richbell 4y ago

Does it matter whether FSD was enabled? Most newer cars — that don't have fancy computer vision — still have built-in sensors to prevent collisions when the car is "driving" (e.g., above 10km/h). I would expect that to be a core feature of a Tesla vehicle.

oehpr 4y ago
Err... yes? This campaign is explicitly calling for the ban of FSD on the grounds that it failed to react to an obstacle on the road. So yes it matters rather a lot.

camjohnson26 4y ago

Has that been confirmed? Electrek is essentially Tesla propaganda and O’Dowd denied the claims, but I haven’t seen independent confirmation of whether the test was valid.

oehpr 4y ago
Fair question. But the points Electrek put forward seem pretty reasonable. FSD needs maps to operate, the tests were done on a private field, so the FSD stays off. I'm currently taking these propositions as true, but if they're false then it's one word against another. I remain curious, what exactly is happening here?
- nmeofthestate 4y ago
  > the tests were done on a private field, so the FSD stays off In the first tweet linked in the article it says the test was run on a public street
  - nomel 4y ago
    What they're driving on in the video in the grandparent's edit is definitely not a public street.
gentleman11 4y ago
It seems like the impacts seem to be happening as the auto drive is in the process of disengaging itself and is decelerating to do so, according to the article. That seems like a grey area, but lets say that this is advertised as full autopilot without the need for human intervention (which it is). Then, a case where this autopilot stops working that leads to an accident is still a serious problem - considering the claims by Tesla How can they claim full automatic piloting when the system could turn off when the area you’re driving in isn’t mapped by them? This is based on the articles anyway
- freejazz 4y ago
  How is it full autopilot if it disengages on its own? It will point your car at a child but then turn off autopilot so you become liable for running over a child? it's so absurd, I'm not sure why anyone would support this approach.
vardump 4y ago
Very interesting you'd call out someone for being biased, given your submission history is mostly comprised of negative articles about Tesla.

josephcsible 4y ago

> Why does Tesla feel the video is defamatory? Is it mis-representing or being dishonest about the test? Yes, that's exactly it. The car in question was being manually driven by a human, but the video claimed that it was FSD.

addisonl 4y ago
My car will stop for a pedestrian while I manually drive it—why does a Tesla not?
- josephcsible 4y ago
  By default, it does, but Automatic Emergency Braking can be turned off in settings, and now that we've already established O'Dowd's dishonesty, it doesn't seem like a big stretch that he would have done that too for this video. Remember that a lot of people have recreated this experiment and found that it did stop for all of them.
  - nr2x 4y ago
    Which liar to trust? Feel like I’m voting.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      While Elon lies a lot about his cars' future capabilities, I don't think he's ever lied about their current capabilities.
matthewdgreen 4y ago
The video here shows that the accelerator pedal isn't pressed. What is making the car speed up if FSD isn't active? https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1559245760054575112 https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1559245760054...

Veserv 4y ago

As you will see in the update at the bottom of that article: “The Dawn Project has since released additional footage that doesn’t appear in its ad where we can see that they were able to activate FSD,”. Here is the raw info. Dawn Project page talking about the commercial: https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-projects-new-advertising-campaign-highlighting-the-dangers-of-teslas-full-self-driving/ https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-projects-new-advertising-ca... Here is a link to the commercial in question: https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1556973572698128385 https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1556973572698... Here is the raw footage for the Dawn Project commercial: https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/raw-footage.mp4 https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/raw-foota... Here is a followup test: https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1559245760054575112 https://mobile.twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1559245760054...

oehpr 4y ago
Interesting, that seems to meet the objectors complaints. So... what's with the failure? Why is this happening?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mlindner 4y ago
  Because they overrode the system by pressing the accelerator. Pressing the accelerator doesn't disable autopilot, it just overrides the speed setting.
  - Veserv 4y ago
    Item 22 of the signed affidavit by the test driver says they did not touch the accelerator while it was in self driving mode. https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Art-Haynie-Affidavit.pdf https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Art-Hayni...
    - 4y ago

gamblor956 4y ago

Somehow, repeatedly calling a guy a pedophile isn't defamation, but showing a video purportedly showing a car self-driving itself into a child is. What a wonderful world Elon Musk must live in. There are dozens of other videos by FSD testers showing FSD's propensity to drive into oncoming traffic, misidentify or not see other vehicles, cyclists, and pedestrians.

mlindner 4y ago

> Any speculation as to what's happening here that's leading to the failure? There's no failure happening. They disabled or overrode the safety features to cause the event shown on video. As has been documented in their own videos by their own clumsiness.