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Maybe you mean in the wild? A high-profile death-by-Orca occurred at Seaworld [1] but I think this was more of an intentional revenge rather than accidental pla

Maybe you mean in the wild? A high-profile death-by-Orca occurred at Seaworld [1] but I think this was more of an intentional revenge rather than accidental playfulness. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_Brancheau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_Brancheau

soneca 4y ago
Yep, the article has that “in the wild” clarification
marcusverus 4y ago
> but I think this was more of an intentional revenge rather than accidental playfulness. At first blush this struck me as a silly comment, so I read the article... and boy, are you right. It really does sound like an intentional, even methodical killing. Here's the description from the wiki: > As part of the end-of-show routine, [Dawn Brancheau] was at the edge of the pool, rubbing Tilikum's head. She was lying with her face next to Tilikum's on a slide-out, which is a platform submerged about a foot into the water. SeaWorld claims that she was pulled into the water by her ponytail. Some witnesses reported seeing Tilikum grab Brancheau by the arm or shoulder. The orca's move seems to have been very quick, pulling her underwater and drowning her. At least a dozen patrons witnessed Brancheau in the water with Tilikum. Employees used nets and threw food at Tilikum in an attempt to distract him. Moving from pool to pool in the complex, they eventually directed Tilikum to a smaller, medical pool, where it would be easier to calm him. After approximately 45 minutes, Tilikum released Brancheau's body. I suppose I'm anthropomorphizing and making a lot of assumptions, but holding that poor woman under water for 45 minutes strikes me as making sure that she's dead--particularly since its caretakers (who, presumably, have a strong understanding of how to influence its behavior) were actively attempting to entice it to let her go. For 45 minutes. Really wild stuff.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  A different wikipedia page (about another of the people Tilikum killed) describes the incident differently. I have not investigated all the citations to explain the difference: Tilikum became an infamous whale after attacking and killing his trainer, forty-year-old SeaWorld staff member Dawn Brancheau. Tilikum grabbed her arm, scalped the woman, fractured her jaw and killed her by blunt force trauma, the result of which was a contentious and controversial legal case over the safety of working with orca whales and the ethics of keeping live whales and other marine mammals in captivity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Keltie_Byrne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Keltie_Byrne
- bmitc 4y ago
  Honestly, it's a bit surprising that people find this surprising. Orcas are air-breathing mammals, and conscious breathers at that. They kill other mammals, namely whales, often by drowning them intentionally. They know what drowning is. The other is that these are massive animals placed in water prisons, constantly exposed to the sun and concrete and fed fish they wouldn't eat in the wild. It would be like putting a human in a small 3'x3' box with the top exposed to the sun and fed dog food and then being surprised that they're on edge. That orca definitely killed the trainer on purpose or did it in a way such that it didn't care whether she lived or died and was releasing frustration. An orca could bite a human in half in the same way that a human can bite through jello, which shows that the orca was displaying frustration and exasperation. Orcas have committed suicide while in captivity, by intentionally and repeatedly ramming their heads into the concrete walls to cause brain hemorrhages or starving themselves. To be frank, it is mindblowing to me that people view these incidences as examples of orca intelligence rather than exhibitions of human cruelty and unintelligence.
  - seizethecheese 4y ago
    It can be both. What an unnecessarily confrontational comment.
    - _c3ag 4y ago
      UNNECESSARY? people, including me, went to this type of shit show and had fun. whales drowning humans is a slap on our history edit: and one reaaaaly primitive, you know, mammals only worth when on the sapiens sapiens ballpark
    - bmitc 4y ago
      It shouldn't be both. I'll agree it is confrontational, but I addressed it to people in general, so it's meant to be confrontational to the collective. And it's justifiably so because these beings continue to be held in captivity, bred in captivity, and even captured from the wild to be held in captivity. It's pure torture that people charge for visitors to come and laugh and gawk at.
  - ironmagma 4y ago
- amelius 4y ago
  Could it have been an act of (frustrated) affection instead?
- lm28469 4y ago
  > that poor woman The poor orca who's been abducted at 2 and kept in a swimming pool for decades for fun and profit you mean ?
  - pvaldes 4y ago
    Not, the woman. Check your priorities.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago
>The autopsy report said that Brancheau died from drowning and blunt force trauma. Her spinal cord was severed, and she had sustained fractures to her jawbone, ribs, and a cervical vertebra. Her scalp was completely torn off from her head, and her left elbow and left knee had been dislocated.
- bmitc 4y ago
  Tilikum weighed over 12,000 pounds. Orcas have bite forces apparently estimated to be around to be at least 20,000 psi (13 times that of a jaguar), can launch themselves tens of feet out of the water, can ram great whites and whales to disorient or knock them out, and more. It's honestly surprising the injuries weren't worse and showcases the orca was frustrated.
yieldcrv 4y ago
the article does specify in the wild, and that it doesn't hold true regarding captivity check out the article
ironmagma 4y ago
No one can ever just tell the facts about this case without some kind of slant. There's nothing we know that indicates this was an act of revenge. Tilikum was much more mistreated by the orcas he lived with than he was by any human, so if there was to be an act of revenge it would've likely been on another orca.
- throwaway67743 4y ago
  Or that because of their natural social structure, he wasn't as bothered by it as being trotted out to dance every five minutes while living in a glass jar
  - ironmagma 4y ago
    You really think they prefer sitting motionless in a tank to having a task to do? How is that consistent with any of the rest of mammalia?
    - throwaway67743 4y ago
      In HN tradition you've missed what I was trying to say, attention from other orca may be more welcome then idiots with legs, regardless of if it's negative. You also make the dumb assumption that all creatures are here to perform a task, that isn't how real life species work
      - ironmagma 4y ago
        Not quite, I took your logic and simply showed that it leads to the wrong result. I never said anyone is here to perform a task. That said, I am happier pressing buttons on a machine than I am just lying motionless. It doesn’t matter that the activity is artificial, doing something is by far preferable to doing nothing.
        throwaway67743 4y ago
        I'm not sure, they spend decades at sea essentially doing nothing, but fulfil their purpose, without performing. Also if you're happy pushing buttons, you're probably unhappy.

soneca 4y ago

Yep, the article has that “in the wild” clarification

marcusverus 4y ago

> but I think this was more of an intentional revenge rather than accidental playfulness. At first blush this struck me as a silly comment, so I read the article... and boy, are you right. It really does sound like an intentional, even methodical killing. Here's the description from the wiki: > As part of the end-of-show routine, [Dawn Brancheau] was at the edge of the pool, rubbing Tilikum's head. She was lying with her face next to Tilikum's on a slide-out, which is a platform submerged about a foot into the water. SeaWorld claims that she was pulled into the water by her ponytail. Some witnesses reported seeing Tilikum grab Brancheau by the arm or shoulder. The orca's move seems to have been very quick, pulling her underwater and drowning her. At least a dozen patrons witnessed Brancheau in the water with Tilikum. Employees used nets and threw food at Tilikum in an attempt to distract him. Moving from pool to pool in the complex, they eventually directed Tilikum to a smaller, medical pool, where it would be easier to calm him. After approximately 45 minutes, Tilikum released Brancheau's body. I suppose I'm anthropomorphizing and making a lot of assumptions, but holding that poor woman under water for 45 minutes strikes me as making sure that she's dead--particularly since its caretakers (who, presumably, have a strong understanding of how to influence its behavior) were actively attempting to entice it to let her go. For 45 minutes. Really wild stuff.

fsckboy 4y ago
A different wikipedia page (about another of the people Tilikum killed) describes the incident differently. I have not investigated all the citations to explain the difference: Tilikum became an infamous whale after attacking and killing his trainer, forty-year-old SeaWorld staff member Dawn Brancheau. Tilikum grabbed her arm, scalped the woman, fractured her jaw and killed her by blunt force trauma, the result of which was a contentious and controversial legal case over the safety of working with orca whales and the ethics of keeping live whales and other marine mammals in captivity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Keltie_Byrne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Keltie_Byrne
bmitc 4y ago
Honestly, it's a bit surprising that people find this surprising. Orcas are air-breathing mammals, and conscious breathers at that. They kill other mammals, namely whales, often by drowning them intentionally. They know what drowning is. The other is that these are massive animals placed in water prisons, constantly exposed to the sun and concrete and fed fish they wouldn't eat in the wild. It would be like putting a human in a small 3'x3' box with the top exposed to the sun and fed dog food and then being surprised that they're on edge. That orca definitely killed the trainer on purpose or did it in a way such that it didn't care whether she lived or died and was releasing frustration. An orca could bite a human in half in the same way that a human can bite through jello, which shows that the orca was displaying frustration and exasperation. Orcas have committed suicide while in captivity, by intentionally and repeatedly ramming their heads into the concrete walls to cause brain hemorrhages or starving themselves. To be frank, it is mindblowing to me that people view these incidences as examples of orca intelligence rather than exhibitions of human cruelty and unintelligence.
- seizethecheese 4y ago
  It can be both. What an unnecessarily confrontational comment.
  - _c3ag 4y ago
    UNNECESSARY? people, including me, went to this type of shit show and had fun. whales drowning humans is a slap on our history edit: and one reaaaaly primitive, you know, mammals only worth when on the sapiens sapiens ballpark
  - bmitc 4y ago
    It shouldn't be both. I'll agree it is confrontational, but I addressed it to people in general, so it's meant to be confrontational to the collective. And it's justifiably so because these beings continue to be held in captivity, bred in captivity, and even captured from the wild to be held in captivity. It's pure torture that people charge for visitors to come and laugh and gawk at.
- ironmagma 4y ago
amelius 4y ago
Could it have been an act of (frustrated) affection instead?
lm28469 4y ago
> that poor woman The poor orca who's been abducted at 2 and kept in a swimming pool for decades for fun and profit you mean ?
- pvaldes 4y ago
  Not, the woman. Check your priorities.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago

>The autopsy report said that Brancheau died from drowning and blunt force trauma. Her spinal cord was severed, and she had sustained fractures to her jawbone, ribs, and a cervical vertebra. Her scalp was completely torn off from her head, and her left elbow and left knee had been dislocated.

bmitc 4y ago
Tilikum weighed over 12,000 pounds. Orcas have bite forces apparently estimated to be around to be at least 20,000 psi (13 times that of a jaguar), can launch themselves tens of feet out of the water, can ram great whites and whales to disorient or knock them out, and more. It's honestly surprising the injuries weren't worse and showcases the orca was frustrated.

yieldcrv 4y ago

the article does specify in the wild, and that it doesn't hold true regarding captivity check out the article

ironmagma 4y ago

No one can ever just tell the facts about this case without some kind of slant. There's nothing we know that indicates this was an act of revenge. Tilikum was much more mistreated by the orcas he lived with than he was by any human, so if there was to be an act of revenge it would've likely been on another orca.

throwaway67743 4y ago
Or that because of their natural social structure, he wasn't as bothered by it as being trotted out to dance every five minutes while living in a glass jar
- ironmagma 4y ago
  You really think they prefer sitting motionless in a tank to having a task to do? How is that consistent with any of the rest of mammalia?
  - throwaway67743 4y ago
    In HN tradition you've missed what I was trying to say, attention from other orca may be more welcome then idiots with legs, regardless of if it's negative. You also make the dumb assumption that all creatures are here to perform a task, that isn't how real life species work
    - ironmagma 4y ago
      Not quite, I took your logic and simply showed that it leads to the wrong result. I never said anyone is here to perform a task. That said, I am happier pressing buttons on a machine than I am just lying motionless. It doesn’t matter that the activity is artificial, doing something is by far preferable to doing nothing.
      - throwaway67743 4y ago
        I'm not sure, they spend decades at sea essentially doing nothing, but fulfil their purpose, without performing. Also if you're happy pushing buttons, you're probably unhappy.