5 ms·

What's up with that western obsession to "impair Russia's economy"?

by Kukumber 4y ago

whythre 4y ago
Because it beats the hell out of escalation and the specter of nuclear exchange.
- Kukumber 4y ago
  Nuclear exchange? Ukraine doesn't have nuclear weapons And it is Russia's neighbor, i doubt Russians want a radioactive cloud above them
  - kadoban 4y ago
    If Russia is left unchecked, the next targets after Ukraine are even more obviously European, and many of those have nukes or are closer to countries that have nukes than Ukraine is/was.
    - Kukumber 4y ago
      Reverse the role, open a map and look at the NATO expansion and US military bases that spread everywhere, full of long range missiles Now, how would you react? specially when they enter in an economy war with you, forcing everyone to comply with their sanctions https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-nato-putin-idUSKBN1K92KA https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-nato-putin-idUSKBN...
      - kadoban 4y ago
        > Reverse the role, open a map and look at the NATO expansion and US military bases that spread everywhere, full of long range missiles NATO is a defensive compact, not a country that's expanding. > full of long range missiles These being long range means it really doesn't matter, right? Russia's government could try not being such shitheads if they want to be left alone. Their current war is just expanding NATO more than anything in decades. Invading your neighbors has a way of driving people away, funny that.
atemerev 4y ago
Well, evil should not stay unpunished for everyone to see, for starters.
- Kukumber 4y ago
  The US remains unpunished for what they did in the middle east Same for South Africa, same for Qatar, Israel and Saudi Arabia Again, why this obsession with punishing Russia? must be something else since the UN doesn't seems to care about supposed invasions
  - atemerev 4y ago
    Everyone and their dog are talking about that, too. And the UN doesn’t care, they are just a place for opposing forces to come and talk. Also, Saddam Hussein and Taliban were (and Taliban are) quite evil in their own regard; there were nearly no opposition in the world for US operations against them. Ukraine wasn’t and isn’t evil.
    - ghostwriter 4y ago
      Thanks for admitting that US-backed mujahedins[1] ended up as the evil the west was supposed to prevent from emerging. Try to guess how the history is going to rhyme with Ukraine this time. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/1993-independent-article-about-osama-bin-laden-2013-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/1993-independent-article-abo...
      - atemerev 4y ago
        Yes, that wasn’t a good idea perhaps. But, well, it has created more than enough problems and punishments.
  - kadoban 4y ago
    The US has not added to its territory. Russia is invading for purposes of expansion.
AftHurrahWinch 4y ago
My perspective from the southern hemisphere is that the West is making an example out of Russia by "fighting to the last Ukrainian" to attempt to push China's time-table on Taiwan. I don't think it has anything to do with Ukraine, Russia, human rights, etc.
- arinlen 4y ago
  > I don't think it has anything to do with Ukraine, Russia, human rights, etc. How do you rationalize Russia threatening to invade neighboring countries, such as Poland and Romania and all Baltic states, not to mention all the threats directed at Germany and the UK, and still claim that Russia is whimsically being made an example because of China?
  - AftHurrahWinch 4y ago
    I think about the way the West reacted to the decades of post-Soviet Russian threats and warnings such as after Malaysia Air Flight 17, Gazprom's conduct around the Yamal pipelne, and the way they use Moldovan nationality to interfere with domestic Polish politics. Or even the difference between the reaction to Russia's conduct in Ukraine in 2014 as opposed to 2022. I think that Russia has been making threats for decades, yet the West's response has changed dramatically. Why now? The Guardian: "Fury as Russia presents 'evidence' Poland sided with Nazis before war" (2009) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/01/russia-poland-nazis-secret-documents https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/01/russia-poland-... Polityka: "Polish-Russian Relations: Bones of Contention Piling Up" (2012) https://web.archive.org/web/20120224013051/http://www.ziggi.pl/pdf_download.php?file=Ziggi%2F3_ziggis_corner_article.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20120224013051/http://www.ziggi.... The Moscow Times: "Poland Cancels Year of Bilateral Celebration With Russia Over Ukraine" (2014) https://old.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/poland-cancels-year-of-bilateral-celebration-with-russia-over-ukraine/504025.html https://old.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/poland-cancels-y... The Telegraph: "Ukraine crisis: Poland asks Nato to station 10,000 troops on its territory" (2014) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10737838/Ukraine-crisis-Poland-asks-Nato-to-station-10000-troops-on-its-territory.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10... BBC: "Russia bans Polish fruit and veg amid sanctions war" (2014) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28603140 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28603140 Nine O'Clock (of Bucharest): "Russia Warns Romania" (2015) http://www.nineoclock.ro/russia-warns-romania/ http://www.nineoclock.ro/russia-warns-romania/ BBC: "Russia warns Poland not to touch Soviet WW2 memorials" (2017) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40775355 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40775355 The NYT: "Burned by Russia, Poland Turns to U.S. for Natural Gas and Energy Security" (2019) https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/business/poland-gas-lng-russia-usa.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/business/poland-gas-lng-r... In March 2020, the British government declared Russia the most "acute" threat to UK security in the Integrated Review. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975077/Global_Britain_in_a_Competitive_Age-_the_Integrated_Review_of_Security__Defence__Development_and_Foreign_Policy.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... In June 2021, a confrontation occurred between HMS Defender (D36) and the Russian Armed Forces in the 2021 Black Sea incident. https://ghostarchive.org/archive/p3Ibq https://ghostarchive.org/archive/p3Ibq
Viliam1234 4y ago
If Russia has more difficulty attacking countries around them, because they can't afford it economically, it would make many non-Western countries happy, too.

What's up with that western obsession to "impair Russia's economy"?

whythre 4y ago

Because it beats the hell out of escalation and the specter of nuclear exchange.

Kukumber 4y ago
Nuclear exchange? Ukraine doesn't have nuclear weapons And it is Russia's neighbor, i doubt Russians want a radioactive cloud above them
- kadoban 4y ago
  If Russia is left unchecked, the next targets after Ukraine are even more obviously European, and many of those have nukes or are closer to countries that have nukes than Ukraine is/was.
  - Kukumber 4y ago
    Reverse the role, open a map and look at the NATO expansion and US military bases that spread everywhere, full of long range missiles Now, how would you react? specially when they enter in an economy war with you, forcing everyone to comply with their sanctions https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-nato-putin-idUSKBN1K92KA https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-nato-putin-idUSKBN...
    - kadoban 4y ago
      > Reverse the role, open a map and look at the NATO expansion and US military bases that spread everywhere, full of long range missiles NATO is a defensive compact, not a country that's expanding. > full of long range missiles These being long range means it really doesn't matter, right? Russia's government could try not being such shitheads if they want to be left alone. Their current war is just expanding NATO more than anything in decades. Invading your neighbors has a way of driving people away, funny that.

atemerev 4y ago

Well, evil should not stay unpunished for everyone to see, for starters.

Kukumber 4y ago
The US remains unpunished for what they did in the middle east Same for South Africa, same for Qatar, Israel and Saudi Arabia Again, why this obsession with punishing Russia? must be something else since the UN doesn't seems to care about supposed invasions
- atemerev 4y ago
  Everyone and their dog are talking about that, too. And the UN doesn’t care, they are just a place for opposing forces to come and talk. Also, Saddam Hussein and Taliban were (and Taliban are) quite evil in their own regard; there were nearly no opposition in the world for US operations against them. Ukraine wasn’t and isn’t evil.
  - ghostwriter 4y ago
    Thanks for admitting that US-backed mujahedins[1] ended up as the evil the west was supposed to prevent from emerging. Try to guess how the history is going to rhyme with Ukraine this time. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/1993-independent-article-about-osama-bin-laden-2013-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/1993-independent-article-abo...
    - atemerev 4y ago
      Yes, that wasn’t a good idea perhaps. But, well, it has created more than enough problems and punishments.
- kadoban 4y ago
  The US has not added to its territory. Russia is invading for purposes of expansion.

AftHurrahWinch 4y ago

My perspective from the southern hemisphere is that the West is making an example out of Russia by "fighting to the last Ukrainian" to attempt to push China's time-table on Taiwan. I don't think it has anything to do with Ukraine, Russia, human rights, etc.

arinlen 4y ago
> I don't think it has anything to do with Ukraine, Russia, human rights, etc. How do you rationalize Russia threatening to invade neighboring countries, such as Poland and Romania and all Baltic states, not to mention all the threats directed at Germany and the UK, and still claim that Russia is whimsically being made an example because of China?
- AftHurrahWinch 4y ago
  I think about the way the West reacted to the decades of post-Soviet Russian threats and warnings such as after Malaysia Air Flight 17, Gazprom's conduct around the Yamal pipelne, and the way they use Moldovan nationality to interfere with domestic Polish politics. Or even the difference between the reaction to Russia's conduct in Ukraine in 2014 as opposed to 2022. I think that Russia has been making threats for decades, yet the West's response has changed dramatically. Why now? The Guardian: "Fury as Russia presents 'evidence' Poland sided with Nazis before war" (2009) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/01/russia-poland-nazis-secret-documents https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/01/russia-poland-... Polityka: "Polish-Russian Relations: Bones of Contention Piling Up" (2012) https://web.archive.org/web/20120224013051/http://www.ziggi.pl/pdf_download.php?file=Ziggi%2F3_ziggis_corner_article.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20120224013051/http://www.ziggi.... The Moscow Times: "Poland Cancels Year of Bilateral Celebration With Russia Over Ukraine" (2014) https://old.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/poland-cancels-year-of-bilateral-celebration-with-russia-over-ukraine/504025.html https://old.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/poland-cancels-y... The Telegraph: "Ukraine crisis: Poland asks Nato to station 10,000 troops on its territory" (2014) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10737838/Ukraine-crisis-Poland-asks-Nato-to-station-10000-troops-on-its-territory.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10... BBC: "Russia bans Polish fruit and veg amid sanctions war" (2014) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28603140 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28603140 Nine O'Clock (of Bucharest): "Russia Warns Romania" (2015) http://www.nineoclock.ro/russia-warns-romania/ http://www.nineoclock.ro/russia-warns-romania/ BBC: "Russia warns Poland not to touch Soviet WW2 memorials" (2017) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40775355 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40775355 The NYT: "Burned by Russia, Poland Turns to U.S. for Natural Gas and Energy Security" (2019) https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/business/poland-gas-lng-russia-usa.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/business/poland-gas-lng-r... In March 2020, the British government declared Russia the most "acute" threat to UK security in the Integrated Review. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975077/Global_Britain_in_a_Competitive_Age-_the_Integrated_Review_of_Security__Defence__Development_and_Foreign_Policy.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... In June 2021, a confrontation occurred between HMS Defender (D36) and the Russian Armed Forces in the 2021 Black Sea incident. https://ghostarchive.org/archive/p3Ibq https://ghostarchive.org/archive/p3Ibq

Viliam1234 4y ago

If Russia has more difficulty attacking countries around them, because they can't afford it economically, it would make many non-Western countries happy, too.