5 ms·

Deno 1.25

73 points by 0xedb 4y ago

akmittal 4y ago
Npm support is really big addition. I thought of exploring deno for big project, but was worried if I can't find deno package for specific feature. With bun claiming to be fastest I want to see how deno compares to bun.
- vasergen 4y ago
  Looks like bun gave a good boost for deno
  - imbnwa 4y ago
    Feel like Node should've ripped the band-aid off and just said 'fuck it, ESM only in the next LTS' instead of this .mjs business. If you need CJS, use the previous LTS which we'll exceptionally support a bit longer. Would've gave them space to make other fundamental changes as well. Yes, you get a bit of a Python2/Python3 split in the community but to me it'd have been worth it and the JS community is less risk adverse anyway.
    - akmittal 4y ago
      ES modules were not only issue with node. There are bunch like no Promises in std library(they are adding that though) standard library is very minimal, so not easy to make a web app without a npm package.
      - LunaSea 4y ago
        It has always been extremely easy. Ryan Dale famously demoed his 10 line webserver for Node
nchudleigh 4y ago
Seems like some competition is a good thing! Love to see the experimental npm support. deno init is a bit silly imo.
- colejohnson66 4y ago
  What's wrong with `deno init`? `npm init` has been a thing for years.
  - peanut_worm 4y ago
    Yeah but Deno doesn’t require package.json or anything like that. Seems sort of redundant.
  - brundolf 4y ago
    From the sound of things, deno init basically just downloads a sample project- it's not creating actual boilerplate that you're going to keep using as you implement your real app
    - IshKebab 4y ago
      Yeah but that's what users want. `<project manager> init` is a de facto standard way to say "Ok, new tool that I don't understand, make me a blank project." Just because Deno's blank project is literally just `/* main.ts */ console.log("hello world!");` doesn't mean that the `init` command is useless. It's not useful if you are already aware how Deno works. The point of adding it is to help people who don't know. It's about discoverability.
  - melony 4y ago
    It's also missing git and gitignore.
- jitl 4y ago
  A tiny command like this seems trivial, but it actually plays an important role. It makes trying Deno for the first time frictionless, while placing learning pathways for both module layout and testing. It’s a small accelerant to learning – but one that probably reduces early churn on the learning pathway due to an unnecessary decision. This command also means that the next 100 tutorials written about Deno will skip a step with `mkdir` and `touch` while standardizing the naming convention of _test.ts files clearly. A little pebble can change the flow of a large river if it’s placed while the river is still a stream.
peanut_worm 4y ago
Really happy to see. I have been using Deno for a project and I have really enjoyed it. It solves all of the annoyances of Node for me.
- neophyt3 4y ago
  annoyances? could you mention some
  - tardismechanic 4y ago
    See: "10 Things I Regret About Node.js - Ryan Dahl - JSConf EU" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M3BM9TB-8yA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M3BM9TB-8yA
synergy20 4y ago
My node.js needs is related to electron.js, wish deno becomes one of Electron.js backend someday.
- lf-non 4y ago
  You may also find astrodon [1] interesting [1] https://github.com/astrodon/astrodon https://github.com/astrodon/astrodon
- cercatrova 4y ago
  Look into Tauri, it uses the web view of the host OS rather than Electron
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> When doing this, no npm install is necessary and no node_modules folder is created. Where do they go for say... Docker container purposes?
- jitl 4y ago
  Probably into the same cache that Deno uses for other module URIs: $DENO_DIR or system default cache location. https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/linking_to_external_code https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/linking_to_external_code
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> New experimental HTTP server API > Our benchmarks show a 4x improvement in hello-world request per second performance compared to Node.js and a 3x improvement compared to our existing web server. What the heck was wrong with the previous implementation? :P https://github.com/denoland/deno/pull/15405 https://github.com/denoland/deno/pull/15405 I think this is the PR for it though. Unless the performance benefits are from something else in https://github.com/denoland/deno/releases/tag/v1.25.0 https://github.com/denoland/deno/releases/tag/v1.25.0
nextaccountic 4y ago
Can Deno be embedded in a larger Rust application? I know I can embed v8 directly https://github.com/denoland/rusty_v8 https://github.com/denoland/rusty_v8 but I wish I could use other parts of Deno. In particular, I wish I could write a Tokio async program in Rust, and load plugins using deno, and have this work seamlessly edit: actually, https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/embedding_deno https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/embedding_deno https://crates.io/crates/deno_core https://crates.io/crates/deno_core https://docs.rs/deno_core/latest/deno_core/ https://docs.rs/deno_core/latest/deno_core/ It doesn't expose tokio so I suppose that it manages its own runtime separate from the executor of the application using it (edit 2: it doesn't, it lets the user bring their own executor. cool!)
- rwiggum 4y ago
  Yes, easily. We do this for the JS runtime at litprotocol.com
  - nextaccountic 4y ago
    Cool! Can you link to it on Github or something? (is it oss?)
ralusek 4y ago
The main thing I want from Deno is per dependency sandboxing. They let you enable file system or internet access for the whole project, but that's basically useless in most of my usecases. If I could whitelist the couple of dependencies that might need http access or whatever, that'd be great.
- laurencerowe 4y ago
  While there's no realistic way to provide a security boundary between JavaScript modules, Workers are a possibility [1]. The code with the more restricted set of permissions must run in the Worker. That code then communicates with the rest of your app through postMessage / SharedArrayBuffer, perhaps using ComLink [2]. [1] https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/runtime/workers#specifying-worker-permissions https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/runtime/workers#specifying-... [2] https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/comlink https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/comlink
- hayd 4y ago
  I think realms are the future in this direction. https://github.com/denoland/deno/issues/13239 https://github.com/denoland/deno/issues/13239

73 points by 0xedb 4y ago

Npm support is really big addition. I thought of exploring deno for big project, but was worried if I can't find deno package for specific feature. With bun claiming to be fastest I want to see how deno compares to bun.

vasergen 4y ago
Looks like bun gave a good boost for deno
- imbnwa 4y ago
  Feel like Node should've ripped the band-aid off and just said 'fuck it, ESM only in the next LTS' instead of this .mjs business. If you need CJS, use the previous LTS which we'll exceptionally support a bit longer. Would've gave them space to make other fundamental changes as well. Yes, you get a bit of a Python2/Python3 split in the community but to me it'd have been worth it and the JS community is less risk adverse anyway.
  - akmittal 4y ago
    ES modules were not only issue with node. There are bunch like no Promises in std library(they are adding that though) standard library is very minimal, so not easy to make a web app without a npm package.
    - LunaSea 4y ago
      It has always been extremely easy. Ryan Dale famously demoed his 10 line webserver for Node

nchudleigh 4y ago

Seems like some competition is a good thing! Love to see the experimental npm support. deno init is a bit silly imo.

colejohnson66 4y ago
What's wrong with `deno init`? `npm init` has been a thing for years.
- peanut_worm 4y ago
  Yeah but Deno doesn’t require package.json or anything like that. Seems sort of redundant.
- brundolf 4y ago
  From the sound of things, deno init basically just downloads a sample project- it's not creating actual boilerplate that you're going to keep using as you implement your real app
  - IshKebab 4y ago
    Yeah but that's what users want. `<project manager> init` is a de facto standard way to say "Ok, new tool that I don't understand, make me a blank project." Just because Deno's blank project is literally just `/* main.ts */ console.log("hello world!");` doesn't mean that the `init` command is useless. It's not useful if you are already aware how Deno works. The point of adding it is to help people who don't know. It's about discoverability.
- melony 4y ago
  It's also missing git and gitignore.
jitl 4y ago
A tiny command like this seems trivial, but it actually plays an important role. It makes trying Deno for the first time frictionless, while placing learning pathways for both module layout and testing. It’s a small accelerant to learning – but one that probably reduces early churn on the learning pathway due to an unnecessary decision. This command also means that the next 100 tutorials written about Deno will skip a step with `mkdir` and `touch` while standardizing the naming convention of _test.ts files clearly. A little pebble can change the flow of a large river if it’s placed while the river is still a stream.

peanut_worm 4y ago

Really happy to see. I have been using Deno for a project and I have really enjoyed it. It solves all of the annoyances of Node for me.

neophyt3 4y ago
annoyances? could you mention some
- tardismechanic 4y ago
  See: "10 Things I Regret About Node.js - Ryan Dahl - JSConf EU" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M3BM9TB-8yA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M3BM9TB-8yA

synergy20 4y ago

My node.js needs is related to electron.js, wish deno becomes one of Electron.js backend someday.

lf-non 4y ago
You may also find astrodon [1] interesting [1] https://github.com/astrodon/astrodon https://github.com/astrodon/astrodon
cercatrova 4y ago
Look into Tauri, it uses the web view of the host OS rather than Electron

MuffinFlavored 4y ago

> When doing this, no npm install is necessary and no node_modules folder is created. Where do they go for say... Docker container purposes?

jitl 4y ago
Probably into the same cache that Deno uses for other module URIs: $DENO_DIR or system default cache location. https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/linking_to_external_code https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/linking_to_external_code

MuffinFlavored 4y ago

> New experimental HTTP server API > Our benchmarks show a 4x improvement in hello-world request per second performance compared to Node.js and a 3x improvement compared to our existing web server. What the heck was wrong with the previous implementation? :P https://github.com/denoland/deno/pull/15405 https://github.com/denoland/deno/pull/15405 I think this is the PR for it though. Unless the performance benefits are from something else in https://github.com/denoland/deno/releases/tag/v1.25.0 https://github.com/denoland/deno/releases/tag/v1.25.0

nextaccountic 4y ago

Can Deno be embedded in a larger Rust application? I know I can embed v8 directly https://github.com/denoland/rusty_v8 https://github.com/denoland/rusty_v8 but I wish I could use other parts of Deno. In particular, I wish I could write a Tokio async program in Rust, and load plugins using deno, and have this work seamlessly edit: actually, https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/embedding_deno https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/embedding_deno https://crates.io/crates/deno_core https://crates.io/crates/deno_core https://docs.rs/deno_core/latest/deno_core/ https://docs.rs/deno_core/latest/deno_core/ It doesn't expose tokio so I suppose that it manages its own runtime separate from the executor of the application using it (edit 2: it doesn't, it lets the user bring their own executor. cool!)

rwiggum 4y ago
Yes, easily. We do this for the JS runtime at litprotocol.com
- nextaccountic 4y ago
  Cool! Can you link to it on Github or something? (is it oss?)

ralusek 4y ago

The main thing I want from Deno is per dependency sandboxing. They let you enable file system or internet access for the whole project, but that's basically useless in most of my usecases. If I could whitelist the couple of dependencies that might need http access or whatever, that'd be great.

laurencerowe 4y ago
While there's no realistic way to provide a security boundary between JavaScript modules, Workers are a possibility [1]. The code with the more restricted set of permissions must run in the Worker. That code then communicates with the rest of your app through postMessage / SharedArrayBuffer, perhaps using ComLink [2]. [1] https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/runtime/workers#specifying-worker-permissions https://deno.land/manual@v1.25.0/runtime/workers#specifying-... [2] https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/comlink https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/comlink
hayd 4y ago
I think realms are the future in this direction. https://github.com/denoland/deno/issues/13239 https://github.com/denoland/deno/issues/13239