7 ms·

I drove a manual for about 20 years and I still really enjoy them, but there is one thing that made me happily leave them behind: stop-and-go traffic. Not havi

by lisper 4y ago

I drove a manual for about 20 years and I still really enjoy them, but there is one thing that made me happily leave them behind: stop-and-go traffic. Not having to clutch constantly when driving in the city is a big enough win that I'm willing to give up the fun of a manual for it. But I do sometimes miss having a stick on a windy mountain road.

euroderf 4y ago
And don't forget leaving from a stop uphill.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
  There are many techniques to start uphill. In Italy the driving test is on manual transmission and many people use manual. I trained in Rome, parking on the left side downhill (so backward is uphill), it was tough, but learned a lot of tricks in the process to prevent stalling. You also become very attuned to the clutch I do love manual transmission, but the purpose is to have fun, not for daily usage.
  - euroderf 4y ago
    Yes the clutch becomes your BFF. But can you really say that a manual is not for daily use ? It certainly helps when dealing with ice & snow.
    - wil421 4y ago
      I’m doubting the person in Italy has a need for ice and snow driving. Where I am it might snow or ice once a year. However I do own an SUV that has a snow mode. It starts in second to avoid spinning the wheels and will let you manually cycle through the 8 speeds if you want.
      - badpun 4y ago
        > I’m doubting the person in Italy has a need for ice and snow driving. They have high mountains in there, including Alps, with highest peak at 2912 meters.
        gpderetta 4y ago
        Mont Blanc (or Monte Bianco as we call it in Italy) is over 4800m. But yes, plenty of snow in many many places in Italy.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        North Italy has enough ice and snow driving, including compulsory wheel chains, at least while we keep having European Winters.
        amarant 4y ago
        GP did mention Rome though.. There's snow and ice in the Italian Alps for sure, but in Rome? Hardly likely.
        gpderetta 4y ago
        Literal Rome I don't think so, but there are places you can go skiing just a couple of hours from the city.
        Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
        In Rome no, there is no snow, it's too hot. The 3 times I can remember there was snow in Rome the city would completely lock, with cars abandoned in the middle of the road (picture post zombie apocalypse kind of thing), so you can't drive even if you want to, because there is no room on the road.
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
      I'm not implying that you cannot, I drove 10 years with manual transmission. I'm suggesting that if possible, auto would be better for daily use. In the end, it's up to the person.
- tigershark 4y ago
  Automatic transmission is much worse than manual in mountain roads and uphill. But I always forget that a lot of people have no idea on how to drive uphill with manual transmission.
  - proamdev123 4y ago
    Apparently I’m one of those people, given I had no idea this was a thing. How is driving uphill in a manual different than flat driving in a manual? (Serious question)
    - taylodl 4y ago
      They're talking about taking off when stopped on a hill. Pressing the clutch and releasing the brake will result in the car rolling backward down the hill until you get enough forward momentum going to take off. Newer drivers freak-out on the rolling backward bit. I remember an earlier discussion on HN where different people around the world learned different techniques for preventing the rollback. I remember lots of Europeans saying that's what the parking brake is for. Here in the States we're taught to let out the clutch until it starts to bite and then release the brake. You may still roll backward a few inches but that's no big deal.
- gjulianm 4y ago
  A lot of modern cars have an automatic brake that keeps your car from going downhill in those situations. Some are smoother, some are weirder, but it works.
  - mauvehaus 4y ago
    Generically, that's called a hill holder, and there were pre-electronic implementations. My 1986 Subaru BRAT had one. I can't speak to how it was to drive; it never worked. The hill holder specifically, the rest of the car mostly worked. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill-holder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill-holder
- bluecalm 4y ago
  I've rented a BMW a few years ago on vacation in Portugal. It had manual transmission and a system to prevent rolling back on hills. Those things are not incompatible.
- jiri 4y ago
  I got manual transmission in my alfa romeo and it behaves the same as automatic regarding uphill start.
- lisper 4y ago
  I actually enjoyed the challenge of that. The problem with stop-and-go driving, especially in LA where I made the transition to automatic, is that it can go on for a very long time. My left leg would get sore. Starting up a hill typically only has to be done once.
capableweb 4y ago
I currently use a (automatic) borrowed car from the shop while my (manual) car is being repaired. I mostly do city-driving. One of the biggest issues with the automatic is stop-and-go traffic. It's absolutely trash at accelerating smoothly but fast, and I have no choice but to either go very slowly forward to not make it janky, or really aggressive acceleration. With a manual car, smooth-but-fast acceleration is easy to achieve, but with this (Audi Q3) borrow car, it seems short of impossible to achieve. More pet-peeves of automatic VS manual I'm experiencing are outlined here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32591426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32591426 but smooth city driving is probably what I miss the most currently, as that is mostly how I spend my driving.
- fooker 4y ago
  Audi Q3 does not have a representative modern automatic transmission. You should try a car with a CVT from the last 2-3-ish years to feel the difference.
  - kortex 4y ago
    The latest subaru forester is absolutely insane when it comes to how much control you have over acceleration. I can creep forward at agonizingly slow speeds without riding the brake, stomp it for mostly instant torque, and everything in between. It's way smoother than any manual, automatic 6-spd, or DSG I've ever driven. Oh and you can downshift to engine brake and the Sport model has flappy paddles to boot.
  - apelapan 4y ago
    There are still a lot of more-or-less-shit automatics being manufactured. Even if they collectively has gotten quite a bit better over the years. The six-speed automatic in my KIA for example, is from the past three years and it is not entirely great. It is perfectly fine 98% of the time, but those last two percent... * Shifting speed is highly unpredictable on kick-down * In certain temperatures it will slam the shift from first to second even when taking of very softly * It will randomly decide to stay in a needlessly low gear on long, gentle inclines, even though there is plenty of power in higher gears if you force an up-shift in manual mode * On low-speed sharp inclines (like my own residental street) it desperately stays in second gear to the point of almost stalling the engine, before does a brutal panic-downshift to first gear But in standard highway driving or city-stop-and-go it is really nice.
taylodl 4y ago
People say they hate driving manuals in stop-and-go-traffic and I don't get it - maybe it's because I've been driving them as my daily driver for over 30 years? My left foot and right hand just take care of what needs to be done without my even having to think about it. Essentially I am driving an automatic! :)
- lisper 4y ago
  Where do you live? Because I lived in LA, and I found that after an hour or more of constant clutching, day after day after day, it got old.
  - taylodl 4y ago
    By the time I got to that kind of traffic my left foot and right hand were already on automatic. Doesn't feel like a chore because half the time I'm not even aware of what they're doing - they just do it.
    - lisper 4y ago
      It's not the cognitive load, it's the physical load of pumping the clutch constantly for an hour or more.
      - taylodl 4y ago
        I don't even notice it. I would assume you're using a hydraulic clutch? I thought those were pretty much the standard (ha!) since 80's. Maybe I'm just getting a workout without realizing it? I do know whenever I drive my wife's car - which is an automatic because she also hates driving a manual transmission in traffic - my left foot nearly goes through the floorboard before it realizes there's no pedal there! :) I still get befuddled when parking her car because I never remember to shift into park and I'm wondering why I can't turn the ignition switch to off and pull the key out. Gets me every time!
        lisper 4y ago

by lisper 4y ago

euroderf 4y ago

And don't forget leaving from a stop uphill.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
There are many techniques to start uphill. In Italy the driving test is on manual transmission and many people use manual. I trained in Rome, parking on the left side downhill (so backward is uphill), it was tough, but learned a lot of tricks in the process to prevent stalling. You also become very attuned to the clutch I do love manual transmission, but the purpose is to have fun, not for daily usage.
- euroderf 4y ago
  Yes the clutch becomes your BFF. But can you really say that a manual is not for daily use ? It certainly helps when dealing with ice & snow.
  - wil421 4y ago
    I’m doubting the person in Italy has a need for ice and snow driving. Where I am it might snow or ice once a year. However I do own an SUV that has a snow mode. It starts in second to avoid spinning the wheels and will let you manually cycle through the 8 speeds if you want.
    - badpun 4y ago
      > I’m doubting the person in Italy has a need for ice and snow driving. They have high mountains in there, including Alps, with highest peak at 2912 meters.
      - gpderetta 4y ago
        Mont Blanc (or Monte Bianco as we call it in Italy) is over 4800m. But yes, plenty of snow in many many places in Italy.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      North Italy has enough ice and snow driving, including compulsory wheel chains, at least while we keep having European Winters.
      - amarant 4y ago
        GP did mention Rome though.. There's snow and ice in the Italian Alps for sure, but in Rome? Hardly likely.
        gpderetta 4y ago
        Literal Rome I don't think so, but there are places you can go skiing just a couple of hours from the city.
        Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
        In Rome no, there is no snow, it's too hot. The 3 times I can remember there was snow in Rome the city would completely lock, with cars abandoned in the middle of the road (picture post zombie apocalypse kind of thing), so you can't drive even if you want to, because there is no room on the road.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
    I'm not implying that you cannot, I drove 10 years with manual transmission. I'm suggesting that if possible, auto would be better for daily use. In the end, it's up to the person.
tigershark 4y ago
Automatic transmission is much worse than manual in mountain roads and uphill. But I always forget that a lot of people have no idea on how to drive uphill with manual transmission.
- proamdev123 4y ago
  Apparently I’m one of those people, given I had no idea this was a thing. How is driving uphill in a manual different than flat driving in a manual? (Serious question)
  - taylodl 4y ago
    They're talking about taking off when stopped on a hill. Pressing the clutch and releasing the brake will result in the car rolling backward down the hill until you get enough forward momentum going to take off. Newer drivers freak-out on the rolling backward bit. I remember an earlier discussion on HN where different people around the world learned different techniques for preventing the rollback. I remember lots of Europeans saying that's what the parking brake is for. Here in the States we're taught to let out the clutch until it starts to bite and then release the brake. You may still roll backward a few inches but that's no big deal.
gjulianm 4y ago
A lot of modern cars have an automatic brake that keeps your car from going downhill in those situations. Some are smoother, some are weirder, but it works.
- mauvehaus 4y ago
  Generically, that's called a hill holder, and there were pre-electronic implementations. My 1986 Subaru BRAT had one. I can't speak to how it was to drive; it never worked. The hill holder specifically, the rest of the car mostly worked. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill-holder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill-holder
bluecalm 4y ago
I've rented a BMW a few years ago on vacation in Portugal. It had manual transmission and a system to prevent rolling back on hills. Those things are not incompatible.
jiri 4y ago
I got manual transmission in my alfa romeo and it behaves the same as automatic regarding uphill start.
lisper 4y ago
I actually enjoyed the challenge of that. The problem with stop-and-go driving, especially in LA where I made the transition to automatic, is that it can go on for a very long time. My left leg would get sore. Starting up a hill typically only has to be done once.

capableweb 4y ago

I currently use a (automatic) borrowed car from the shop while my (manual) car is being repaired. I mostly do city-driving. One of the biggest issues with the automatic is stop-and-go traffic. It's absolutely trash at accelerating smoothly but fast, and I have no choice but to either go very slowly forward to not make it janky, or really aggressive acceleration. With a manual car, smooth-but-fast acceleration is easy to achieve, but with this (Audi Q3) borrow car, it seems short of impossible to achieve. More pet-peeves of automatic VS manual I'm experiencing are outlined here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32591426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32591426 but smooth city driving is probably what I miss the most currently, as that is mostly how I spend my driving.

fooker 4y ago
Audi Q3 does not have a representative modern automatic transmission. You should try a car with a CVT from the last 2-3-ish years to feel the difference.
- kortex 4y ago
  The latest subaru forester is absolutely insane when it comes to how much control you have over acceleration. I can creep forward at agonizingly slow speeds without riding the brake, stomp it for mostly instant torque, and everything in between. It's way smoother than any manual, automatic 6-spd, or DSG I've ever driven. Oh and you can downshift to engine brake and the Sport model has flappy paddles to boot.
- apelapan 4y ago
  There are still a lot of more-or-less-shit automatics being manufactured. Even if they collectively has gotten quite a bit better over the years. The six-speed automatic in my KIA for example, is from the past three years and it is not entirely great. It is perfectly fine 98% of the time, but those last two percent... * Shifting speed is highly unpredictable on kick-down * In certain temperatures it will slam the shift from first to second even when taking of very softly * It will randomly decide to stay in a needlessly low gear on long, gentle inclines, even though there is plenty of power in higher gears if you force an up-shift in manual mode * On low-speed sharp inclines (like my own residental street) it desperately stays in second gear to the point of almost stalling the engine, before does a brutal panic-downshift to first gear But in standard highway driving or city-stop-and-go it is really nice.

taylodl 4y ago

People say they hate driving manuals in stop-and-go-traffic and I don't get it - maybe it's because I've been driving them as my daily driver for over 30 years? My left foot and right hand just take care of what needs to be done without my even having to think about it. Essentially I am driving an automatic! :)

lisper 4y ago
Where do you live? Because I lived in LA, and I found that after an hour or more of constant clutching, day after day after day, it got old.
- taylodl 4y ago
  By the time I got to that kind of traffic my left foot and right hand were already on automatic. Doesn't feel like a chore because half the time I'm not even aware of what they're doing - they just do it.
  - lisper 4y ago
    It's not the cognitive load, it's the physical load of pumping the clutch constantly for an hour or more.
    - taylodl 4y ago
      I don't even notice it. I would assume you're using a hydraulic clutch? I thought those were pretty much the standard (ha!) since 80's. Maybe I'm just getting a workout without realizing it? I do know whenever I drive my wife's car - which is an automatic because she also hates driving a manual transmission in traffic - my left foot nearly goes through the floorboard before it realizes there's no pedal there! :) I still get befuddled when parking her car because I never remember to shift into park and I'm wondering why I can't turn the ignition switch to off and pull the key out. Gets me every time!
      - lisper 4y ago