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Okay but then why is the rolling brick wall of a modern pickup allowed?
by Pxtl 4y ago
Okay but then why is the rolling brick wall of a modern pickup allowed?
- Retric 4y agoIt’s more than just about style. As much as modern pickup trucks have become a fashion statement, many large pickup trucks are providing real utility to construction, farming, etc. And much like 18 wheelers they can’t scale down the front while maintaining utility because they need large engines and high ground clearance.
- NonNefarious 4y agoSo what? The question stands.
- Retric 4y agoYou asked why, and the answer is cost vs benefit. Car styling alone doesn’t justify the risk to pedestrians, large truck utility can. Yes, this tradeoff kills people, but so do all sorts of things like not physically preventing cars from driving 80+MPH.
- AlexandrB 4y agoThis is a non answer. Australia has a vehicle style commonly referred to as a "ute"[1]. I think it stand for "utility". Which is basically a car with a truck bed in the back. This provides many of the advantages of a pickup without the increased danger to pedestrians. Why are car companies not marketing/selling these to the average consumer instead of the monster RAMs and F150s? I suspect the reason has everything to do with styling and little to do with utility. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_(vehicle) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_(vehicle)
- bobthepanda 4y agoThe reason is because ANCAP and Euro NCAP test for pedestrian safety and US NCAP does not. They have been sitting on their hands since 2015. https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-20-419 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-20-419
- icelancer 4y agoNo, this has everything to do with unintended consequences of litigation and regulation. Enjoy the Chicken Tax. It's why we can't have the Hilux in the States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax edit: I suppose it's not unintended consequences. It's LBJ's corrupt decision to trade tariffs for votes / curry favor with unions that harms US consumers.
- toast0 4y agoChicken tax doesn't apply if you build it here. And Toyota builds some stuff here, so they could build trucks here. Or, just pay the tax, like Ford does for the Transit Express (although they did try tax dodging for several years). A bigger problem is fuel efficiency standards that encourage larger footprints. You can't hit the mandated mpgs in a compact truck, so enlarge the truck to make it hit the standards.
- User23 4y ago> It's why we can't have the Hilux in the States. Well, we have the Tacoma, which fits pretty much the same niche. I was under the impression it was more market driven and less regulation driven.
- Retric 4y agoI agree that for the average consumer the a car chassis is fine. Unfortunately it’s not going to haul a large horse trailer over rough terrain and we don’t force a special permit for full sized trucks or have sufficient gas taxes to discourage them. As to why Ford etc is targeting regular people with these monstrous trucks it’s both profitable and current regulations promote their sale. You can dig into the history of these regulations but as far as I can tell it’s a mix of trying to appease businesses and a specific voter demographic. Call it corruption or giving people what they want, it’s not going away anytime soon.
- euroderf 4y agoNot so different from an El Camino[1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_El_Camino https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_El_Camino
- accountofme 4y agoWe did. From what I can see ford and holden utes aren't made anymore...
- AlexandrB 4y agoThat's too bad :( I remember seeing them everywhere in Australia when I visited.
- dumpsterlid 4y agoI would argue the minivan is the most comically underloved vehicle in the US given how perfectly it fulfills what people want from their vehicle. There is little reason to buy a ute style vehicle over a minivan in my opinion. I had to buy a used car last year (I have no kids, just a girlfriend and no plans in the near future for kids if ever.. lol who can afford that shit?) and used car prices were/are? absolutely insane. I widened my search to pretty much any car type and decided to look for a remote job/job with a very short commute so I wouldnt have to buy a gas efficient vehicle. I wanted basically a honda civic type vehicle but even old beat up honda civics with 250,000 miles driven by high schoolers were still far too expensive for what you were getting. ...then I realized that one of the vehicles taxi companies use are toyota siennas and read some articles about how minivans had actually barely gone up in price even though people were desperate for cars. I got a 2006 awd sienna with nice newer tires, a 3500 pound towing package, roof racks, sunroof, power doors and hatch, disc brakes, an absolutely cavernous interior with removable seats that can fit a full size plywood sheet, window shades, a leather interior and the top trim level audio system with a newer android touchscreen radio unit for $6000. Yah it had 180,000 but on a sienna if it is maintained well that is nothing. I mean.. all the electrical shit still works on it somehow? Also this thing is fun to drive, it isnt a sports car by any means but steering is sensitive and accurate and the wheelbase is so long it eats bumps like a couch even though the suspension isnt floaty. If I had bought a civic it would have had 250,000+ miles, cloth seats, shit tires, huge dents and probably a replacement panel that was a mismatched color along with innumerable random small problems. Americans hate the idea of owning a minivan more than the idea of not owning a car and it is hilarious because minivans are what you get when you take a hard look at american life and design a large vehicle for it that ticks off every box. Unless you are towing very large things frequently ever other large vehicle is a joke compared to a minivan. I mean.. sliding doors yo... I will never buy a large vehicle without them after owning one with them.
- lupire 4y agoMinivans are extreme popular. You see rows of Odysseys and Siennas at soccer games and military housing. The bumper stickers are essential for finding ones own in the lot. Mostly insecure rich people (or desperately wannabe rich), especially "overcompensating" macho-men and short-women, buy SUVs and shiny non-work big trucks.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- NonNefarious 4y agoIn the USA we have sport-utes, which was the original term for SUVs. Don’t know why that was forgotten and replaced with MORE syllables, but there you go. Now we have no small trucks, and a continued parade of bloated, impractical junk that manufacturers are pushing as “small.” The new Ford Ranger and Chevy Colorado stand out as regressions from their former incarnations, and the Maverick is another joke. They all force giant four-door cabs and puny beds on all buyers. Thus they lack the usefulness of a proper truck, and the safety of the “utes” you describe.
- bambax 4y ago> As much as modern pickup trucks have become a fashion statement Pickup trucks are the opposite of fashion. There are to cars what Crocs are to shoes.
- marcusestes 4y agoDisagree. Because the utility is seldom fully utilized in an urban environment, they are nearly pure fashion. They serve as a signaling mechanism the same way that a pair of Gucci loafers do, just for a different culture.
- bambax 4y agoThey serve as a signalling mechanism all right; they signal that their owner has no taste, and doesn't care.
- Retric 4y agoJust like every generation’s thinks the next generations music sucks, this reaction is intended. Fashion is about signaling not whatever you happen to agree with.
- hwestiii 4y agohow is signaling different from "whatever you happen to agree with"?
- Retric 4y agoBecause a strong negative reaction is also a sign of fashion. Tattoos aren’t universal, what’s acceptable for Army special forces, goths, gang members, etc are all different. So, good or bad only exists in a specific context it isn’t something that any person can judge universally. Someone really can define good as whatever pisses people like you off.
- branon 4y ago
- raverbashing 4y ago> many large pickup trucks are providing real utility to construction, farming, etc. Yes. One in 10 or maybe 20
- Retric 4y agoLet me guess, you don’t live next to farmers or a lot of snow.
- bipson 4y agoSeriously, snow? You don't need a pickup for snow!
- Retric 4y agoMoving snow, not driving on it.
- mrguyorama 4y agoHere in the frozen hellscape of maine, nearly all snow mangement is done by dedicated equipment. They use skidsteers, dump trucks, front end loaders with giant buckets or snow blowers, and what few trucks they do have don't plow, they spread dirt or salt, which the dump trucks also can do so they are only used to dirt/salt small parking lots. Individuals buy push snow blowers or snow blower attachments to their lawn tractors. Occasionally a business will contract someone with a plow on a truck but that's not common because the contractors who actually deal with this regularly have dedicated equipment that's better than a plow on a truck and using a shitty plow on a standard truck is actually not easy. Even the parking lot in my private apartment complex is cleaned after a snow storm by a company with multiple front end loaders and skidsteers.
- bipson 4y agoDude, I live in Austria. We know what snow is and how to move it. This is what you build for that purpose: https://img.archiexpo.de/images_ae/photo-mg/67143-15337174.webp https://img.archiexpo.de/images_ae/photo-mg/67143-15337174.w... https://d3v9db8ug40up8.cloudfront.net/styles/large/s3/2020-09/unix_universal_plough_heromodule2_1.png?itok=ozErzATd https://d3v9db8ug40up8.cloudfront.net/styles/large/s3/2020-0... This is colloquially called Unimog (successor, kind of), a general purpose utility vehicle with awesome drivetrain, huge tires, great weight distribution, not too heavy, serves winter and summer in several roles. or https://www.ecotech.at/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Ecotech-Schneepflug-ES2-1-scaled.jpg https://www.ecotech.at/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Ecotech-Sc...
- mritun 4y agoBecause they’re classified as pickup trucks i.e. a farm vehicle even though most of them will never drive through mud.
- tadfisher 4y agoBecause they're not classified as passenger vehicles, so they don't have to meet the same standards.
- chinathrow 4y agoInsanity in one sentence.
- jacquesm 4y agoIndeed, it should be the actual use that governs this. If you use it as a passenger vehicle, it's a passenger vehicle. If you use it on a farm then it's a farm vehicle.
- kube-system 4y agoIt’s pretty difficult to require a manufacturer to design a car today based on how someone will use it in the future.
- chinathrow 4y agoHuh? To drive around?
- kube-system 4y agoA manufacturer does not know, at manufacture time, whether you will put hay bales or grandmas furniture in your truck bed.
- chinathrow 4y agoSure, but no matter what, there might be a kid of the road, even on the farm.
- msrenee 4y agoThere's already special registration for farm vehicles in a lot of states. The taxes are lower and that's one of the few cases where you can use pink diesel, which is also taxed differently. Trucks used as passenger vehicles are already more expensive to register and run than farm vehicles.
- mnd999 4y agoAlso, they probably care less about failing European safety standards since pickups aren’t a big market in Europe.
- hikingsimulator 4y agosadly I've seen an increasing amount of American-style SUV and pickup trucks in France since the start of covid.
- vladvasiliu 4y agoThere already were a few before, but now Dodge must have done something "right" because there really are many RAMs around. Those things are so ridiculous for Paris, that I'm pretty sure they don't even fit through some streets. Hell, my father used to have a fairly common French sedan that would sometimes need a lot of maneuvering through the public garage ramps, and would barely fit in the parking slots.
- polskibus 4y agoSame thing happened to SUVs. It's mostly "i want a bigger car than my neighbour" kind of thing , and now there are many more SUVs, driving in a sedan around them feels a bit intimidating, as you are worried they may not see you well enough on the road. It's a downward spiral. Now people want something even bigger on the outside and they go with pickup trucks.
- jbverschoor 4y agoIn NL, a RAM can be bought as a company car, effectively dodging road tax. (50 euro vs 200 euro per month). For comparison, you pay 100 euro per month for a tiny car if it runs on diesel (these were 'green' and exempt from road tax 10 years ago). Or between 30 and 70 per month for gasoline cars.
- jacquesm 4y agoEvery landscaper seems to have at least one of them.
- hinkley 4y agoEverything the other people said, but also weird things with center of body mass and the strike area. You don't want people pushed under the car. You also don't want them to go head first through the windshield, which I'm told is why the Mini Cooper got such a drastic redesign a few years ago - they needed a taller hood not to flip pedestrians. The tall grill at least doesn't ram your head through the glass. I don't know who started calling them FUVs (Fuck U Vehicles) but they are not wrong.