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> it’s not something you master overnight. I’m not ashamed to mention that it took me a few sessions in a parking lot to get the fundamentals down This kind of

> it’s not something you master overnight. I’m not ashamed to mention that it took me a few sessions in a parking lot to get the fundamentals down This kind of line always confuses me. I mean, I remember my first driving lesson in the UK. Guy arrived in a BMW 116, manual. He said to me: what is there to explain, you get in and drive. So I got in and drove. Did my first hour, took 5 minutes to get comfortable with the clutch and shifting. Why do the people in the US make it such a big ordeal? Is it like a badge of honour?

wrigby 4y ago
I guess it depends on the car you started in and how easy it is to stall. My Jeep Cherokee with an inline 6 would have been an incredibly easy car to learn on, but my RX-8 - with about the same amount of low-end torque as a sewing machine - was much less forgiving. If it had been my first manual car, it would have taken ages to feel comfortable. And to your question, the answer is actually yes. Because fewer folks in the US drive manual cars, the ones that do are often proud of having the skill.
- zahllos 4y ago
  > I guess it depends on the car you started in and how easy it is to stall. I had similar experiences. I am British also, so, also learned in and mostly drive manuals. My instructor's car would stall if you looked at it funny. A secondhand car I drove after I passed my test would almost never stall at all. I don't remember the makes - I enjoy driving but I'm definitely not into cars that much, sorry. But there's definitely quite a bit of variation in how cars handle and even someone like me who doesn't care that much for the internal details realises they'll need to “figure out" a new manual car when they first drive it.
- EvanAnderson 4y ago
  > I guess it depends on the car you started in and how easy it is to stall. 100% this. My 5-speed Jetta TDi was actually hard to stall w/ all its torque (even at idle). I learned on a 3-cyl. Geo Metro, though, and it was laughably easy to stall.
jeremyjh 4y ago
I guess you are just better people across the pond. It took me more like an hour to get used to manual, and weeks before I could do it smoothly 100% of the time.
- qwerpy 4y ago
  I learned on a very old non-luxury car and it also took me weeks to get comfortable with it. Either we're just incompetent here or BMWs are easier to drive.
Moto7451 4y ago
There are a lot of handed down memories of shifting in non-synchromesh transmissions with lousy cable driven clutches. These are very old memories. Modern manuals do a lot of interesting things like force shifting patterns for efficiency. If you really want to geek out, do a NASCAR Racing Experience. Those clutches and transmissions are awful in comparison (they’re not supposed to be optimized for feel). They’re mushy, the clutch throw is long and very stiff, and the shifter takes forever to move into gear. The base model economy car stick shift I learned in (‘91 Mazda derived Ford Escort) feels like a luxurious precision instrument in comparison.
- rascul 4y ago
  > If you really want to geek out, do a NASCAR Racing Experience. Those clutches and transmissions are awful in comparison (they’re not supposed to be optimized for feel). They’re mushy, the clutch throw is long and very stiff, and the shifter takes forever to move into gear. The base model economy car stick shift I learned in (‘91 Mazda derived Ford Escort) feels like a luxurious precision instrument in comparison. As of 2022 they have the fancy five speed sequential stuff and the clutch is not always necessary. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/do-the-nascar-next-gen-cars-have-a-clutch-pedal/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/do-the-nascar-next-gen-cars-hav...
  - Moto7451 4y ago
    Yup. The new cars are very fancy compared to what they’ll let you rent for a few hot laps. If/When the new cars show up I plan on doing the driving experience again.
alliao 4y ago
bmw does shift quite wonderfully. I learnt manual on a Mazda demio though around 1L engine and very predictable shifts gave me all the confidence in driving a manual full time... Then I got a Honda Integra B16A engine (early 90s) which revved to 8000rpm and the vagueness of shifts meant a successful shift at those rpms was way too much fun for a teenager...
gerdesj 4y ago
It's unlikely it took you five minutes to get the hang of clutch control and shifting gears. OK, it is possible you managed to avoid kangerooing but only for a small range of circumstances. From rest (with a gear selected and clutch depressed), you have to unlatch the handbrake, whilst at the same time gradually engage the clutch and deploy power via the throttle pedal. You have to ensure you don't go backwards on a hill nor stall the engine and quite a few other factors. You also have to be aware of what is around you and deal with weather etc. That's the simple description with only a few complications. At home we reverse hill start onto a narrow gravel track that runs at 90 degrees from the concrete parking stand - it is quite tricky! More so in a long wheel base Transit. I drive two manuals - a car and a large van, and one auto - car, at the moment but I've driven most vehicles from 7.5t down, with or without auto. An auto feels torque from the engine/wheels/conditions and your fuel input. You can floor the pedal to get going and then reduce power gradually as speed is picked up and eventually you know when the auto changes gear and can influence that accordingly - hard to describe. In a manual you can see what is ahead and take action accordingly. You don't feel the actual torque but you can tell (with experience) from the engine noise and the feeling of acceleration. It's all about using your array of sensors - eyes, hands, bum etc. and a shed load of experience. You do not learn that in five minutes and autos are not simply stop/start either.
- ghaff 4y ago
  When I bought a manual about 25 years ago, I had tried out a stick a few times but had never seriously driven one. I definitely wasn't comfortable in anything like 5 minutes. Especially on non-flat roads; for the first month or so I planned my commute a bit around not being in stop and go traffic especially on any hills.
- Dreami 4y ago
  In Switzerland, most instructor cars are Diesels, since they have higher torque and are very hard to stall. Then you go home and drive your parent's petrol engine car and you stall it all the time
  - mnw21cam 4y ago
fomine3 4y ago
You're quite good about driving. I took not like 5min but like a 6 hours to get used to drive manual including parking at driving lesson.
doliveira 4y ago
Do you really think your experience is representative and that most people take a few minutes to learn how to drive? Honestly, it even sounds like a humble brag (mostly because I'm a little jealous)
- pier25 4y ago
  Learning to drive probably not, but learning to shift gears? It should be pretty quick. The most difficult part of driving is not even the machine itself but traffic.
  - doliveira 4y ago
    Learning to shift gears while on traffic and without letting the engine die is one of the hardest parts of learning how to drive (together with parking). Granted, I'm a lousy driver, but it's the same for most people I talk to: letting the engine die is the top reason for failing driving tests. Perhaps it's just Brazilian cars being bad, but I doubt it.
- SuperQue 4y ago
  No, it really is pretty easy. I learned on a '85 VW Jetta manual. Took a couple tries to figure out, then it wasn't an issue. There are some cars that have very touchy clutches, but most are just fine.
  - doliveira 4y ago
    What's the top reason for people failing driving tests? Down here it's letting the engine die while switching gears and failure to park
    - SuperQue 4y ago
      That seems unlikely. Driving testing is like a lot of public certifications. You fail because you're unsafe. https://yogov.org/blog/most-common-reasons-people-fail-their-driving-test-infographic https://yogov.org/blog/most-common-reasons-people-fail-their... https://www.insurethebox.com/what-are-the-most-common-reasons-for-failing-your-driving-test/ https://www.insurethebox.com/what-are-the-most-common-reason...
Aeolun 4y ago
Maybe we just have better cars? I kind of had the same experience. Remembering to shift at the right time is one thing (but happily the car starts whining if you forget), but starting to drive is as simple as releasing the clutch and pressing the gas.
owlninja 4y ago
The badge of honor is knowing how to drive a manual in the US. I say this as someone who can drive a manual, but it has become overly nostalgic for some.
Tade0 4y ago
My observation is that American drivers tend to try to drive in 1st gear instead of engaging 2nd as soon as possible. Well, at least that's the story that youtube clips of car guys tell, seeing how they operate the selector. Being swung back and forth like that by the engine must feel intimidating.
thebigspacefuck 4y ago
How hilly was it where you learned to drive? Starting on a steep incline is the tricky part. If you are on mostly flat roads or have a car with hill assist it becomes much easier.

wrigby 4y ago

I guess it depends on the car you started in and how easy it is to stall. My Jeep Cherokee with an inline 6 would have been an incredibly easy car to learn on, but my RX-8 - with about the same amount of low-end torque as a sewing machine - was much less forgiving. If it had been my first manual car, it would have taken ages to feel comfortable. And to your question, the answer is actually yes. Because fewer folks in the US drive manual cars, the ones that do are often proud of having the skill.

zahllos 4y ago
> I guess it depends on the car you started in and how easy it is to stall. I had similar experiences. I am British also, so, also learned in and mostly drive manuals. My instructor's car would stall if you looked at it funny. A secondhand car I drove after I passed my test would almost never stall at all. I don't remember the makes - I enjoy driving but I'm definitely not into cars that much, sorry. But there's definitely quite a bit of variation in how cars handle and even someone like me who doesn't care that much for the internal details realises they'll need to “figure out" a new manual car when they first drive it.
EvanAnderson 4y ago
> I guess it depends on the car you started in and how easy it is to stall. 100% this. My 5-speed Jetta TDi was actually hard to stall w/ all its torque (even at idle). I learned on a 3-cyl. Geo Metro, though, and it was laughably easy to stall.

jeremyjh 4y ago

I guess you are just better people across the pond. It took me more like an hour to get used to manual, and weeks before I could do it smoothly 100% of the time.

qwerpy 4y ago
I learned on a very old non-luxury car and it also took me weeks to get comfortable with it. Either we're just incompetent here or BMWs are easier to drive.

Moto7451 4y ago

There are a lot of handed down memories of shifting in non-synchromesh transmissions with lousy cable driven clutches. These are very old memories. Modern manuals do a lot of interesting things like force shifting patterns for efficiency. If you really want to geek out, do a NASCAR Racing Experience. Those clutches and transmissions are awful in comparison (they’re not supposed to be optimized for feel). They’re mushy, the clutch throw is long and very stiff, and the shifter takes forever to move into gear. The base model economy car stick shift I learned in (‘91 Mazda derived Ford Escort) feels like a luxurious precision instrument in comparison.

rascul 4y ago
> If you really want to geek out, do a NASCAR Racing Experience. Those clutches and transmissions are awful in comparison (they’re not supposed to be optimized for feel). They’re mushy, the clutch throw is long and very stiff, and the shifter takes forever to move into gear. The base model economy car stick shift I learned in (‘91 Mazda derived Ford Escort) feels like a luxurious precision instrument in comparison. As of 2022 they have the fancy five speed sequential stuff and the clutch is not always necessary. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/do-the-nascar-next-gen-cars-have-a-clutch-pedal/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/do-the-nascar-next-gen-cars-hav...
- Moto7451 4y ago
  Yup. The new cars are very fancy compared to what they’ll let you rent for a few hot laps. If/When the new cars show up I plan on doing the driving experience again.

alliao 4y ago

bmw does shift quite wonderfully. I learnt manual on a Mazda demio though around 1L engine and very predictable shifts gave me all the confidence in driving a manual full time... Then I got a Honda Integra B16A engine (early 90s) which revved to 8000rpm and the vagueness of shifts meant a successful shift at those rpms was way too much fun for a teenager...

gerdesj 4y ago

It's unlikely it took you five minutes to get the hang of clutch control and shifting gears. OK, it is possible you managed to avoid kangerooing but only for a small range of circumstances. From rest (with a gear selected and clutch depressed), you have to unlatch the handbrake, whilst at the same time gradually engage the clutch and deploy power via the throttle pedal. You have to ensure you don't go backwards on a hill nor stall the engine and quite a few other factors. You also have to be aware of what is around you and deal with weather etc. That's the simple description with only a few complications. At home we reverse hill start onto a narrow gravel track that runs at 90 degrees from the concrete parking stand - it is quite tricky! More so in a long wheel base Transit. I drive two manuals - a car and a large van, and one auto - car, at the moment but I've driven most vehicles from 7.5t down, with or without auto. An auto feels torque from the engine/wheels/conditions and your fuel input. You can floor the pedal to get going and then reduce power gradually as speed is picked up and eventually you know when the auto changes gear and can influence that accordingly - hard to describe. In a manual you can see what is ahead and take action accordingly. You don't feel the actual torque but you can tell (with experience) from the engine noise and the feeling of acceleration. It's all about using your array of sensors - eyes, hands, bum etc. and a shed load of experience. You do not learn that in five minutes and autos are not simply stop/start either.

ghaff 4y ago
When I bought a manual about 25 years ago, I had tried out a stick a few times but had never seriously driven one. I definitely wasn't comfortable in anything like 5 minutes. Especially on non-flat roads; for the first month or so I planned my commute a bit around not being in stop and go traffic especially on any hills.
Dreami 4y ago
In Switzerland, most instructor cars are Diesels, since they have higher torque and are very hard to stall. Then you go home and drive your parent's petrol engine car and you stall it all the time
- mnw21cam 4y ago

fomine3 4y ago

You're quite good about driving. I took not like 5min but like a 6 hours to get used to drive manual including parking at driving lesson.

doliveira 4y ago

Do you really think your experience is representative and that most people take a few minutes to learn how to drive? Honestly, it even sounds like a humble brag (mostly because I'm a little jealous)

pier25 4y ago
Learning to drive probably not, but learning to shift gears? It should be pretty quick. The most difficult part of driving is not even the machine itself but traffic.
- doliveira 4y ago
  Learning to shift gears while on traffic and without letting the engine die is one of the hardest parts of learning how to drive (together with parking). Granted, I'm a lousy driver, but it's the same for most people I talk to: letting the engine die is the top reason for failing driving tests. Perhaps it's just Brazilian cars being bad, but I doubt it.
SuperQue 4y ago
No, it really is pretty easy. I learned on a '85 VW Jetta manual. Took a couple tries to figure out, then it wasn't an issue. There are some cars that have very touchy clutches, but most are just fine.
- doliveira 4y ago
  What's the top reason for people failing driving tests? Down here it's letting the engine die while switching gears and failure to park
  - SuperQue 4y ago
    That seems unlikely. Driving testing is like a lot of public certifications. You fail because you're unsafe. https://yogov.org/blog/most-common-reasons-people-fail-their-driving-test-infographic https://yogov.org/blog/most-common-reasons-people-fail-their... https://www.insurethebox.com/what-are-the-most-common-reasons-for-failing-your-driving-test/ https://www.insurethebox.com/what-are-the-most-common-reason...

Aeolun 4y ago

Maybe we just have better cars? I kind of had the same experience. Remembering to shift at the right time is one thing (but happily the car starts whining if you forget), but starting to drive is as simple as releasing the clutch and pressing the gas.

owlninja 4y ago

The badge of honor is knowing how to drive a manual in the US. I say this as someone who can drive a manual, but it has become overly nostalgic for some.

Tade0 4y ago

My observation is that American drivers tend to try to drive in 1st gear instead of engaging 2nd as soon as possible. Well, at least that's the story that youtube clips of car guys tell, seeing how they operate the selector. Being swung back and forth like that by the engine must feel intimidating.

thebigspacefuck 4y ago

How hilly was it where you learned to drive? Starting on a steep incline is the tricky part. If you are on mostly flat roads or have a car with hill assist it becomes much easier.