5 ms·

the article says in the nineties living standards improved in post-USSR Russia, but that is false.

wrp 4y ago
"In the nineties, after oil money came to Russia, quality of life improved," he continued. More wealth brought more garbage, which meant more food for dogs (as well as for rats and crows). Yeah, that's a really strange claim about general quality of life in Russia. However, I can believe there was more garbage lying around due to decline in public services.
- hulitu 4y ago
  As always the americans know very well how life in Russia was. "after oil money came to Russia, quality of life improved" Quality of life improved for people who sold oil. "However, I can believe there was more garbage lying around due to decline in public services." So quality of life for most of other people has declined, or is "garbage lying around" a sign of good quality (of life) ?
curious-im 4y ago
Not sure if it's only my family, but I would say that late 90s Moscow was better place to live compared to late 80s. I remember we had hard time buying/finding food before, many basic goods were hard to get...
- dilyevsky 4y ago
  Even by 94 it was already decent in big cities if you worked for one of the new businesses or pretty great if you managed to scrape up enough to start your own thing. But yeah if you stuck around in deadend job at old soviet factory it was not good
- wawjgreen 4y ago
  not sure what kind of Russian you were but I lived there a a foreigner around the same time and I don't buy this "hard time" buying food thing...If anything 90's was the decade where food became scarce, after the USSR collapsed.
  - attentive 4y ago
    yeah, tell us how great USSR was /s
phantomread 4y ago
I wonder if they meant “for the stray dog population”, specifically.
thriftwy 4y ago
I think they've just confused 90s with 00s when living standards indeed started improving.
tetromino_ 4y ago
Living standards improved for some (a minority), worsened for others (the majority). Everyone used to be kinda-poor; now, suddenly some were well-off and others became truly impoverished. But a big change was that in the 1990s all kinds of desirable consumer goods became available to anyone with money. In the 1980s, money was not enough: goods were simply not available for sale, they were distributed by special people or only in certain places in entirely insufficient quantity, and to get them, you needed special knowledge and personal connections and lots of time wasted. In the 1990s, it was much simpler; as long as you had some legal or not-so-legal way to make money, you could buy whatever you wanted.
- wawjgreen 4y ago
  that is not true. I lived in in USSR for five years--in the late 70's--and your statement does not conform to the reality I experienced for five years. Everyone was kinda middle-class, and nobody was overly rich. The malls were full to the tilt, the prices within reach for everybody no matter their occupation (like Walden Two, by Skinner). Education was free, hospitals were free, people had house, car, etc. The only things you could not freely buy were some of the "designer" goods that belong to the "want" category (not "need"). And I also recall that the USSR propaganda was working full-time to dissuade the common folk to avoid the trappings of the Capitalist societies. As for consumer goods? bread disappeared (my father went there in 90's and he told me), milk disappeared, long queues for basic goods. Yeah maybe MacDonald's and expensive shopping bags and jeans arrived--but these were not what people need to live a good life. Their own clothes were fashionable and durable enough, the people were voracious bookworms who did not care about lobotomy and a big a*, like they do now on Instagram.
  - tetromino_ 4y ago
    I apologize, but your post is so far out of the reality that I, my family, and my friends lived, that I am not sure we are talking about the same country. > The malls Where did you find a mall in the USSR? I do not remember even the concept of such a thing existing in the 1980s. There were only department stores (универмаги). I suspect you may be misremembering and mean a large department store located in an >1M population city. > were full to the tilt Full of goods or of people? Were those people from out of town, taking a day-long train ride because in their small towns/villages there was little for sale besides vegetables and bread? > the prices within reach for everybody no matter their occupation For an ordinary engineer, a new color TV set cost something like 6 months of gross income. A set of bookshelves (стенка) was 1.5 years. A new car (Zhiguli) was around 5-6 years - and even if you had the money, you would spend years waiting for your turn to have the right to buy one! > Education was free, hospitals were free, people had house, car, etc. Education - sure, that was a true Soviet achievement. Hospitals, while free, were horrific. Housing was heavily subsidized, but there was a terrible shortage of it; it wasn't uncommon for whole families to live in one room of a communal apartment (sharing the apartment's one bathroom with a half dozen other families). As for cars - a car was a luxury (although attainable with some effort) and a status symbol. > The only things you could not freely buy were some of the "designer" goods that belong to the "want" category (not "need"). Replace "designer" with "not falling apart the day after purchase and not looking 20 years out of fashion". > And I also recall that the USSR propaganda was working full-time to dissuade the common folk to avoid the trappings of the Capitalist societies. The propaganda kinda lost its effectiveness after the 1960s or so. Certainly by the 1980s few, if anyone, believed it.

wrp 4y ago

"In the nineties, after oil money came to Russia, quality of life improved," he continued. More wealth brought more garbage, which meant more food for dogs (as well as for rats and crows). Yeah, that's a really strange claim about general quality of life in Russia. However, I can believe there was more garbage lying around due to decline in public services.

hulitu 4y ago
As always the americans know very well how life in Russia was. "after oil money came to Russia, quality of life improved" Quality of life improved for people who sold oil. "However, I can believe there was more garbage lying around due to decline in public services." So quality of life for most of other people has declined, or is "garbage lying around" a sign of good quality (of life) ?

curious-im 4y ago

Not sure if it's only my family, but I would say that late 90s Moscow was better place to live compared to late 80s. I remember we had hard time buying/finding food before, many basic goods were hard to get...

dilyevsky 4y ago
Even by 94 it was already decent in big cities if you worked for one of the new businesses or pretty great if you managed to scrape up enough to start your own thing. But yeah if you stuck around in deadend job at old soviet factory it was not good
wawjgreen 4y ago
not sure what kind of Russian you were but I lived there a a foreigner around the same time and I don't buy this "hard time" buying food thing...If anything 90's was the decade where food became scarce, after the USSR collapsed.
- attentive 4y ago
  yeah, tell us how great USSR was /s

phantomread 4y ago

I wonder if they meant “for the stray dog population”, specifically.

thriftwy 4y ago

I think they've just confused 90s with 00s when living standards indeed started improving.

tetromino_ 4y ago

Living standards improved for some (a minority), worsened for others (the majority). Everyone used to be kinda-poor; now, suddenly some were well-off and others became truly impoverished. But a big change was that in the 1990s all kinds of desirable consumer goods became available to anyone with money. In the 1980s, money was not enough: goods were simply not available for sale, they were distributed by special people or only in certain places in entirely insufficient quantity, and to get them, you needed special knowledge and personal connections and lots of time wasted. In the 1990s, it was much simpler; as long as you had some legal or not-so-legal way to make money, you could buy whatever you wanted.

wawjgreen 4y ago
that is not true. I lived in in USSR for five years--in the late 70's--and your statement does not conform to the reality I experienced for five years. Everyone was kinda middle-class, and nobody was overly rich. The malls were full to the tilt, the prices within reach for everybody no matter their occupation (like Walden Two, by Skinner). Education was free, hospitals were free, people had house, car, etc. The only things you could not freely buy were some of the "designer" goods that belong to the "want" category (not "need"). And I also recall that the USSR propaganda was working full-time to dissuade the common folk to avoid the trappings of the Capitalist societies. As for consumer goods? bread disappeared (my father went there in 90's and he told me), milk disappeared, long queues for basic goods. Yeah maybe MacDonald's and expensive shopping bags and jeans arrived--but these were not what people need to live a good life. Their own clothes were fashionable and durable enough, the people were voracious bookworms who did not care about lobotomy and a big a*, like they do now on Instagram.
- tetromino_ 4y ago
  I apologize, but your post is so far out of the reality that I, my family, and my friends lived, that I am not sure we are talking about the same country. > The malls Where did you find a mall in the USSR? I do not remember even the concept of such a thing existing in the 1980s. There were only department stores (универмаги). I suspect you may be misremembering and mean a large department store located in an >1M population city. > were full to the tilt Full of goods or of people? Were those people from out of town, taking a day-long train ride because in their small towns/villages there was little for sale besides vegetables and bread? > the prices within reach for everybody no matter their occupation For an ordinary engineer, a new color TV set cost something like 6 months of gross income. A set of bookshelves (стенка) was 1.5 years. A new car (Zhiguli) was around 5-6 years - and even if you had the money, you would spend years waiting for your turn to have the right to buy one! > Education was free, hospitals were free, people had house, car, etc. Education - sure, that was a true Soviet achievement. Hospitals, while free, were horrific. Housing was heavily subsidized, but there was a terrible shortage of it; it wasn't uncommon for whole families to live in one room of a communal apartment (sharing the apartment's one bathroom with a half dozen other families). As for cars - a car was a luxury (although attainable with some effort) and a status symbol. > The only things you could not freely buy were some of the "designer" goods that belong to the "want" category (not "need"). Replace "designer" with "not falling apart the day after purchase and not looking 20 years out of fashion". > And I also recall that the USSR propaganda was working full-time to dissuade the common folk to avoid the trappings of the Capitalist societies. The propaganda kinda lost its effectiveness after the 1960s or so. Certainly by the 1980s few, if anyone, believed it.