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I do not think it is less dangerous to pedestrians. I remember when I used to live in the Netherlands, it was uncomfortable being a pedestrian because there wer

by stinos 4y ago

I do not think it is less dangerous to pedestrians. I remember when I used to live in the Netherlands, it was uncomfortable being a pedestrian because there were so many cyclists. Actual statistics about encounters clearly do show it is less dangerous, and expecting a concussion to be a false interpretion of actual risks. I do get your problem though: you're not used to it. You need eyes everywhere which essentially takes training.

LtWorf 4y ago
Bah, in my experience bicycle users behave really badly on average. Certainly no better than car drivers. For example they will be ready to crash on a pedestrian who is walking on a bike lane for good reason (most common ones are: an excavator made a trench on the sidewalk, the snow clearing machine took all the snow from the road and made a mountain on the sidewalk). However when there is no bike lane available, they will have no problem in going on the sidewalk at 50km/h with their electric motor. Despite this being clearly forbidden. And getting hit by an electric bike going 50 is no joke. You don't just get a bruise and move on with your day.
- kuschku 4y ago
  I wonder where they’d get an electric bicycle going 50, considering it’s impossible to buy or import ones going more than 20 km/h in most of the EU.
  - stinos 4y ago
    Electric cycles reaching 45km/h are regulated in most of EU, no? On the most powerful ones it takes not too much effort to push to 50 (from experience). That being said, where I commute I practically never encounter anyone doing that (they just do the maximum they can do with assistence, like 42-45 depending on brand and model, or less to save battery/effort) except downhill, where you can reach 50 with a normal cycle as well.
    - belorn 4y ago
      Eu regulates this by classification. A two-wheel vehicle with an electric motor that can assist up to 25 km/h is classified as an electric bike. If the two-wheel vehicle can reach up to 45 km/h, or if it don't require the rider to peddle, then its an electric moped. If it exceeds 45 km/h then its an electric motorcycle. The classification in turn determines which laws the seller and driver is under. A bicycle doesn't require a driving license or license plate. Mopeds and motorcycles require a license plate (registered) and have corresponding driving licenses. There might also be different taxes involved. There is a similar classification with four wheel vehicles. There is electric four wheel mopeds, tractors and cars, each defined by the maximum speed. You can even convert a car into a moped or tractor by changing the gear box to limit how fast they can go.
  - LtWorf 4y ago
    You download a chinese firmware and flash it of course…
    - kuschku 4y ago
      Then your problem isn’t with cyclists, your problem is with jackasses running illegally tuned motorcycles (because that’s what a two-wheeled vehicle that can accelerate beyond 45 km/h is) on bike lanes.
  - bluecalm 4y ago
    It's easy to remove the safety mechanism. Still, I don't see people going 40+ where I live although maybe that happens in other countries. My experience is that in a city at 30km/h you are passing everyone and with significant speed difference as well.
- stinos 4y ago
  I never said anything about behavior, only about accidents and the results thereof. I'd really really rather get hit by a cyclist at any speed than a much heavier vehicle, that's just basic physics. And your examples are just that: examples (possibly exaggerated or factually incorrect ones, re: the 50km/h on sidewalk - it's really hard for humans to correctly judge speed). Anyway: examples which I also see from time to time, but I'm well aware of things like confirmation bias so without any actual hard numbers nor specifying more variables, it's quite hard to say 'x does y on average'. That being said, I do have the impression in the local town (but definitely not everywhere) the behavior of cyclists in general became worse in the last decades. I'd really wish I had a way to make sure, but I just don't remember seeing multiple highest category rule violations every single day.
- belorn 4y ago
  Take a look when outside and see if you ever see strollers or children with training wheels on bike lanes. Then ask, why don't you hear about the many deaths that should occur when those 50km/h bikes are crashing into those helpless children. The average speed of a bike, as measured in Netherlands, is around 15km/h. When there is snow the speed is generally even lower. It is also fairly common where I live to see parents use strollers on snowy days since the bike roads tend to be clear of snow before sidewalk. No one, neither police or other pedestrians, acts as if those parents are putting their children at mortal danger. Statistics also support this. A motorized two wheeler that can travel 50 km/h is not a bicycle, it is a moped. If its electrical then its an electric moped. Mopeds are not allowed where I live to use bike lanes unless they travel at the maximum speed of bikes. Mopeds also require a moped driving license and a license plate, and police can and has apprehended people who break the traffic law in this way.
  - LtWorf 4y ago
    Parents don't let kids go on bike lanes until they are somewhat proficient. Certainly nobody with training wheels is going on trafficked bike lanes. Because most parents realize that would be reckless. > Mopeds are not allowed where I live to use bike lane Welcome to Sweden I guess… I think they are not allowed but they don't care. Electric or benzin engine alike.
    - belorn 4y ago
      Parents let their kids be on the bike lane all the time. Just today on a small trip through the city, here in Sweden, with the weather being excellent, I saw around 10 kids around the age of 8 swirling on the bike lane. Naturally the parents biked next to them. I would slightly agree that parents that train their kids on training wheels should maybe select a better place than a trafficked bike lane, but I for one is not going to stop them and tell them how to raise their kids. I would definitively not call the police and social service. I would be much more concern seeing the same behavior on the road, and if they were on the highway I would consider it. > I think they are not allowed but they don't care. Electric or benzin engine alike. Mopedists are what they are, or rather young adults without a driving license will behave like they always have. Motorized teens. Of course some of them will break the law. Modified electric bikes are however fairly rare since moped strength engines are generally more expensive, and if you are paying that much already then the moped license is fairly cheap to get. Modified mopeds however that goes faster than 45 km/h are very common, especially the four-wheel ones. The legal age to get a driving license is 18 so there is also a incentive to break the law for those that are around 15-18.

by stinos 4y ago

LtWorf 4y ago

Bah, in my experience bicycle users behave really badly on average. Certainly no better than car drivers. For example they will be ready to crash on a pedestrian who is walking on a bike lane for good reason (most common ones are: an excavator made a trench on the sidewalk, the snow clearing machine took all the snow from the road and made a mountain on the sidewalk). However when there is no bike lane available, they will have no problem in going on the sidewalk at 50km/h with their electric motor. Despite this being clearly forbidden. And getting hit by an electric bike going 50 is no joke. You don't just get a bruise and move on with your day.

kuschku 4y ago
I wonder where they’d get an electric bicycle going 50, considering it’s impossible to buy or import ones going more than 20 km/h in most of the EU.
- stinos 4y ago
  Electric cycles reaching 45km/h are regulated in most of EU, no? On the most powerful ones it takes not too much effort to push to 50 (from experience). That being said, where I commute I practically never encounter anyone doing that (they just do the maximum they can do with assistence, like 42-45 depending on brand and model, or less to save battery/effort) except downhill, where you can reach 50 with a normal cycle as well.
  - belorn 4y ago
    Eu regulates this by classification. A two-wheel vehicle with an electric motor that can assist up to 25 km/h is classified as an electric bike. If the two-wheel vehicle can reach up to 45 km/h, or if it don't require the rider to peddle, then its an electric moped. If it exceeds 45 km/h then its an electric motorcycle. The classification in turn determines which laws the seller and driver is under. A bicycle doesn't require a driving license or license plate. Mopeds and motorcycles require a license plate (registered) and have corresponding driving licenses. There might also be different taxes involved. There is a similar classification with four wheel vehicles. There is electric four wheel mopeds, tractors and cars, each defined by the maximum speed. You can even convert a car into a moped or tractor by changing the gear box to limit how fast they can go.
- LtWorf 4y ago
  You download a chinese firmware and flash it of course…
  - kuschku 4y ago
    Then your problem isn’t with cyclists, your problem is with jackasses running illegally tuned motorcycles (because that’s what a two-wheeled vehicle that can accelerate beyond 45 km/h is) on bike lanes.
- bluecalm 4y ago
  It's easy to remove the safety mechanism. Still, I don't see people going 40+ where I live although maybe that happens in other countries. My experience is that in a city at 30km/h you are passing everyone and with significant speed difference as well.
stinos 4y ago
I never said anything about behavior, only about accidents and the results thereof. I'd really really rather get hit by a cyclist at any speed than a much heavier vehicle, that's just basic physics. And your examples are just that: examples (possibly exaggerated or factually incorrect ones, re: the 50km/h on sidewalk - it's really hard for humans to correctly judge speed). Anyway: examples which I also see from time to time, but I'm well aware of things like confirmation bias so without any actual hard numbers nor specifying more variables, it's quite hard to say 'x does y on average'. That being said, I do have the impression in the local town (but definitely not everywhere) the behavior of cyclists in general became worse in the last decades. I'd really wish I had a way to make sure, but I just don't remember seeing multiple highest category rule violations every single day.
belorn 4y ago
Take a look when outside and see if you ever see strollers or children with training wheels on bike lanes. Then ask, why don't you hear about the many deaths that should occur when those 50km/h bikes are crashing into those helpless children. The average speed of a bike, as measured in Netherlands, is around 15km/h. When there is snow the speed is generally even lower. It is also fairly common where I live to see parents use strollers on snowy days since the bike roads tend to be clear of snow before sidewalk. No one, neither police or other pedestrians, acts as if those parents are putting their children at mortal danger. Statistics also support this. A motorized two wheeler that can travel 50 km/h is not a bicycle, it is a moped. If its electrical then its an electric moped. Mopeds are not allowed where I live to use bike lanes unless they travel at the maximum speed of bikes. Mopeds also require a moped driving license and a license plate, and police can and has apprehended people who break the traffic law in this way.
- LtWorf 4y ago
  Parents don't let kids go on bike lanes until they are somewhat proficient. Certainly nobody with training wheels is going on trafficked bike lanes. Because most parents realize that would be reckless. > Mopeds are not allowed where I live to use bike lane Welcome to Sweden I guess… I think they are not allowed but they don't care. Electric or benzin engine alike.
  - belorn 4y ago
    Parents let their kids be on the bike lane all the time. Just today on a small trip through the city, here in Sweden, with the weather being excellent, I saw around 10 kids around the age of 8 swirling on the bike lane. Naturally the parents biked next to them. I would slightly agree that parents that train their kids on training wheels should maybe select a better place than a trafficked bike lane, but I for one is not going to stop them and tell them how to raise their kids. I would definitively not call the police and social service. I would be much more concern seeing the same behavior on the road, and if they were on the highway I would consider it. > I think they are not allowed but they don't care. Electric or benzin engine alike. Mopedists are what they are, or rather young adults without a driving license will behave like they always have. Motorized teens. Of course some of them will break the law. Modified electric bikes are however fairly rare since moped strength engines are generally more expensive, and if you are paying that much already then the moped license is fairly cheap to get. Modified mopeds however that goes faster than 45 km/h are very common, especially the four-wheel ones. The legal age to get a driving license is 18 so there is also a incentive to break the law for those that are around 15-18.