20 ms·

People are demanding that Cloudflare drop Kiwi Farms

50 points by lladnar 4y ago

donkarma 4y ago
despite cloudflare claiming to be neutral it has deplatformed in the past and can do so again
- bogantech 4y ago
  But shouldn't
  - binbashthefash 4y ago
    So it should replatform others to be fair I guess, otherwise it would seem to be favorable treatment for kiwi farms
    - HereIGoAgain 4y ago
      What has KF done that puts it on the level of the sites (incorrectly) dropped in the past? To be clear here, i'm coming from a POV that doesn't think a network infrastructure org has any business picking and choosing. That's how you break and ruin the net.
- ars 4y ago
  I was all set to write a comment about how I'm not OK with private companies deciding who can exist on the internet - but then I remembered that all CloudFlare does is caching and DDOS protection. Without CloudFlare the website would still be accessible on the Internet. And to me that makes a big difference.
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    The implication is that Keffals and friends will DDoS the site out of existence, as they have apparently tried to do numerous times. This is of course criminal but goes unmentioned.
    - kelseyfrog 4y ago
      Requests made as part of a ddos are as free as any other form of speech. A lot of people don't like to admit it, but it's true.
      - psyc 4y ago
        Is it? I'm one of those free speech people, I think, but I do recognize that some 'speech' is harassment when combined with action. Not because of the content, but because you're intending to disrupt somebody, such as following them around all day and yelling. DDoS seems like that. Doesn't it? I mean you're not even saying anything. It's like saying throwing rocks at a window is speech. "What? I'm just trying to say I don't like you. Speech!"
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        As an absolutist, this line of thinking just doesn't have a stopping point. Speech acts are inherently violent. There is no line to draw.
        HereIGoAgain 4y ago
        Yeah, i'm guessing you have no idea what violence actually means.. It must be pretty privileged to be able to hold such a view of things.
      - _9xrb 4y ago
        Absolutely wrong, DDoS attacks are illegal under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, section 1030(a)(5): https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R46536.pdf https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R46536.pdf
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        There's a lot of things we should be able to say but can't. Confusing what we can speak and should be able to speak is an error in thinking.
  - HereIGoAgain 4y ago
    You are aware that DDOSAs are illegal, and that KF doesn't do anything legally even questionable right? CF is an infrastructure service company and thus are the very LAST people who should be picking and choosing.. not if we want the net to keep working freely.
  - bauruine 4y ago
    The owner of Kiwifarms, Joshua Moon has written an article about why being dropped by CloudFlare would he a huge threat to the site [0] [0]: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2021-10-28/where-sidewalk-ends-death-internet https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2021-10-28/where-sidewalk-end...
    - psyc 4y ago
      I am so disappointed in this species. I mean, I was before I read that too.
    - deepdriver 4y ago
      This article was extremely worth reading, thank you for posting.
gagand 4y ago
api 4y ago
That site is much worse than this article makes it sound (and it sounds bad). Here's a little more: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-a-terrible-story-about-96695551/ https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...
- _9xrb 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - drcongo 4y ago
    This is pretty funny. Also, you've misspelled journalist.
    - deepdriver 4y ago
      He did journalism at one time. He’s a been a violent partisan activist for a while now. I see he’s still making the podcast. If you agree with Evans that burning police stations, courthouses, and condos with people inside is cool, as he and many others attempted in Portland for weeks in 2020, just say so. That’s actual violence, not whatever Internet trolls are doing on a message board.
  - antifa 4y ago
    > to whom everyone right of Mao is fascist. This doesn't sound like an accurate description of a guy who openly critizes Stalin and whines all day about "tankies".
    - viridian 4y ago
      Sounds on brand for most of the Mao flavored anarkiddies I've had the displeasure of running into on reddit. Struggle sessioning other leftists with whom you share 99.9% of doctrine is as much a socialist past time as it is a protestant one.
xupybd 4y ago
Kiwi Farms is a horrible abomination. One of the worst cesspits on the internet. They were sharing videos of the Christchurch massacre right after it happened. As a New Zealander it felt doubly disrespectful that they'd share that and use the name Kiwi. All of that said I respect Cloudflare staying neutral on this. Free speech is only free if we defend the speech we hate the most. Free speech has a bad name today but if we de-platform everything that is disagreeable we'll squash our own freedoms along with it. One issue I have is that much of what happens there breaks laws. Cloudflare shouldn't have to step in to deal with that. Law enforcement should have the reach to bring criminals to justice offline and online.
- HereIGoAgain 4y ago
  What laws do they break?
  - xupybd 4y ago
    If they're organizing swatting then that should be covered under conspiracy to commit a crime https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371 Swatting is incredibly dangerous. I fear many see it as a prank but when you get cops with guns charging into what they think is a dangerous situation then people get hurt. Then you have harassment laws https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/harassment.html https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/harassment.... There are specific Cyberstalking laws.
    - HereIGoAgain 4y ago
      The problem is that, much like the alleged body count, they do nothing of the sort. See my post above. They don't harass or even troll. It's literally one of the core rules of the site. Look (and laugh) but don't touch! If you ever try to organize something on-site, you'll get down-voted, your post deleted and potentially even banned. Attempting to swat isn't just not allowed on the site, but most members call out actual attempts as stupid, dangerous and evil! Posting publicly available info and then pointing and laughing, is not stalking or harassment.
corndoge 4y ago
FTA: > People on Twitter, as well as Sorrenti, claimed that the official Cloudflare account hid replies on its tweets related to dropping Kiwi Farms, and then deleted tweets that were ratioed by people talking about the campaign. Cloudflare’s Twitter account normally posted at least daily before this week, but hasn’t tweeted in four days, as of writing. What is the meaning of “ratioed” in this sentence?
- xupybd 4y ago
  Ratioed means the ratio of comments to like is very high. This normally means more people disagree than agree.
- camdv 4y ago
  From Know Your Meme: The Ratio or Ratioed refers to an unofficial Twitter law which states that if the amount of replies to a tweet greatly outnumbers the number of retweets and likes, then the tweet is bad. Additionally, "to ratio" a tweet means to make a quote retweet or reply that manages to get more likes and retweets than the quoted post.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- DanBC 4y ago
  Cloudflare posts a tweet defending their action and it gets some likes. Keffals posts a reply tweet telling CF to drop KiwiFarms and that reply gets very many more likes than CloudFlare's original tweet. The ratio of likes is what's referred to as "ratioed".
computerfriend 4y ago
It is amazing to me that, some 300 years after the enlightenment, a very sizeable number of people still don't value free speech.
- DanBC 4y ago
  Post your full name and address.
  - computerfriend 4y ago
    Not sure what point you're trying to make. But it doesn't seem to be in good faith, whatever it is.
    - DanBC 4y ago
      It's easy to call for freedom of speech for harassers and abusers when you're posting from an anonymous account. You think it's okay for this site to exist when a key feature is doxxing people's information. But you're too much of a coward to post your name and address to HN? Privacy for you, but not for the KF victims? This is hypocrisy. Put your money where your mouth is: post your name and address you fucking coward.
      - computerfriend 4y ago
        Posting anonymously is not cowardly.
        cf 4y ago
        Then I suppose you won't mind me posting it for you right?
- bitwize 4y ago
  There is no government action here, only the principle of: The network interprets hate as noise and filters it out.
deepdriver 4y ago
- thomassmith65 4y ago
  These guys? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms If their availability suffers a little, it doesn't seem like a grave loss for the internet. It's not like there's a world-wide shortage of websites.
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    That isn't how free speech or net neutrality works. Intimidating websites you don't like off the Internet, which is what Keffals et al are doing by trying to remove this site's DDoS protection so they can illegally force them offline, is corrosive to all types of online speech period. If KiwiFarms breaks the law, then by all means take down the website. Secondarily, I don't see anyone else-- journalists, politicians, NGOs, anyone-- doing this kind of deep dive into the sort of online harm Keffals represents. Grooming young children into bathtub-gin sex changes behind the backs of parents and doctors is monstrous. If the only people documenting this are Internet trolls on KiwiFarms, all the more reason to defend their civil rights until the rest of society comes to its senses.
    - Overtonwindow 4y ago
      It’s almost like a mob creating an environment so violent that the police can no longer maintain control so they withdraw, leaving the citizens and the businesses to burn…
- emptyparadise 4y ago
  DIY estrogen is the most hacker thing I've seen on this website (called Hacker News) for months.
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    Telling confused children how to buy hormones with Bitcoin, inject themselves without medical supervision, and hide it all from parents isn't praiseworthy.
charcircuit 4y ago
>She claimed that users on Kiwi Farms, a notorious message board with a history of targeting and doxing vulnerable people, organized the raid and continued to harass her and numerous others. I recommend reading https://kiwifarms.net/help/how-is-the-kiwi-farms-legal/ https://kiwifarms.net/help/how-is-the-kiwi-farms-legal/ The site is legal and the majority of users follow the law. >8chan, a popular website for terrorist manifestos. It wasn't that popular of a site and it's purpose wasn't for terrorist manifestos. It's purpose was to be an image board where users could create their own boards. The global moderators took down content that was illegal to host in the US. The most popular topics of discussion were anime, politics, technology, and video games. Since the media was biased against the site, once an excuse came up to get the site taken down they pounced. They painted a misleading picture of what the site was about in hopes they could take down the site. They won and destroyed many innocent communities that called that site their home.
HereIGoAgain 4y ago
- emptyparadise 4y ago
  Did somebody post a link to HN on that site or something?
  - psyc 4y ago
    They sure did! I don't know who tho. Wasn't me.
  - notthisagain2 4y ago
    Yes they did: https://kiwifarms.net/search/15388568/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.ycombinator.com%2Fitem%3Fid%3D32574574&t=post&o=relevance https://kiwifarms.net/search/15388568/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.... I guess that's part of the reason why there are very specific accounts in this thread promoting obvious misinformation without citing any sources.
    - viridian 4y ago
      To be honest, having read through this entire thread, you are the only user that sticks out as having some below-the-surface agenda and hiding behind a new account. People in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 4y ago
threatofrain 4y ago
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/07/kiwi-farms-the-webs-biggest-community-of-stalkers.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/07/kiwi-farms-the-webs-... https://www.insider.com/chris-chan-arrest-what-is-kiwifarms-the-forum-exposed-her-2021-8 https://www.insider.com/chris-chan-arrest-what-is-kiwifarms-...
- HereIGoAgain 4y ago
  Those are pretty poor examples of anything. nymag doesn't even get basic facts correctly. If posting bias uninformed hit pieces is all it took to win debates then the world would be a pretty sad place.
  - threatofrain 4y ago
    The nymag article has many links to archive.org historical versions of the site. People can judge for themselves by looking at the original facts instead of meta-commentary which attempts to summarize over facts. People can also visit Wikipedia for more links. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms
    - dmatech 4y ago
      If you look at the revision history of this (and related) pages, you'll see plenty of edits by people publicly campaigning for the takedown of that site on Twitter. I wouldn't trust Wikipedia to be unbiased given these conflicts of interest.
  - notthisagain2 4y ago
    This comment is useless as it is, you can't dispute the veracity of the facts presented in the article without providing any kind of evidence yourself. Please, refrain from posting low-value comments like this one that add nothing to the conversation.
joecool1029 4y ago
Let's be clear: Kiwi Farms is a ball of hate just like the Daily Stormer is. But the reason CF hasn't dropped them is none of the site operators will make the claim Cloudflare are open supporters of Kiwi Farms, while DS's editor decided to be cocky and make these claims. Kiwi Farms operators can always distance itself from members calling for violence and ban the accounts when it gets out of hand, just as Reddit has done in the past. Cloudflare CEO's own words: https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ In short: Just claim Cloudflare are big Kiwi Farms supporters as many places you go. Eventually Matthew's ego will get bruised enough and the site will get taken down in another arbitrary manner.
- HereIGoAgain 4y ago
  >"Kiwi Farms is a ball of hate just like the Daily Stormer is" Do you have anything to back that up? KF isn't even a political site. >"Just claim Cloudflare are big Kiwi Farms supporters" Which would be an outright lie and easily disproven.
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    Go there and look. Make up your own mind.
    - HereIGoAgain 4y ago
      To be clear, i was focusing mostly on the "just like the Daily Stormer" part. A literal neo-nazi site.
      - joecool1029 4y ago
        So one site publishes articles from a political (white nationalist) standpoint, the other hosts published dossiers on individuals that have ideologies site users either hate or behavior they think is funny. Point is, they both post shit about people and things they hate or want to ridicule. Do you dispute this?
Overtonwindow 4y ago
Unless they are breaking a law, an actual law not a moral one, then I think it’s abhorrent for Cloudflare to get in to the mob. Is there no service provider that is a free-speech absolutist? Maybe someone needs to start that service. Unless you’re breaking an actual law, not a moral law, then you should be able to build your service and have a website.
Trexmaster 4y ago
I think they're dropping it.

50 points by lladnar 4y ago

donkarma 4y ago

despite cloudflare claiming to be neutral it has deplatformed in the past and can do so again

bogantech 4y ago
But shouldn't
- binbashthefash 4y ago
  So it should replatform others to be fair I guess, otherwise it would seem to be favorable treatment for kiwi farms
  - HereIGoAgain 4y ago
    What has KF done that puts it on the level of the sites (incorrectly) dropped in the past? To be clear here, i'm coming from a POV that doesn't think a network infrastructure org has any business picking and choosing. That's how you break and ruin the net.
ars 4y ago
I was all set to write a comment about how I'm not OK with private companies deciding who can exist on the internet - but then I remembered that all CloudFlare does is caching and DDOS protection. Without CloudFlare the website would still be accessible on the Internet. And to me that makes a big difference.
- deepdriver 4y ago
  The implication is that Keffals and friends will DDoS the site out of existence, as they have apparently tried to do numerous times. This is of course criminal but goes unmentioned.
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    Requests made as part of a ddos are as free as any other form of speech. A lot of people don't like to admit it, but it's true.
    - psyc 4y ago
      Is it? I'm one of those free speech people, I think, but I do recognize that some 'speech' is harassment when combined with action. Not because of the content, but because you're intending to disrupt somebody, such as following them around all day and yelling. DDoS seems like that. Doesn't it? I mean you're not even saying anything. It's like saying throwing rocks at a window is speech. "What? I'm just trying to say I don't like you. Speech!"
      - kelseyfrog 4y ago
        As an absolutist, this line of thinking just doesn't have a stopping point. Speech acts are inherently violent. There is no line to draw.
        HereIGoAgain 4y ago
        Yeah, i'm guessing you have no idea what violence actually means.. It must be pretty privileged to be able to hold such a view of things.
    - _9xrb 4y ago
      Absolutely wrong, DDoS attacks are illegal under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, section 1030(a)(5): https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R46536.pdf https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R46536.pdf
      - kelseyfrog 4y ago
        There's a lot of things we should be able to say but can't. Confusing what we can speak and should be able to speak is an error in thinking.
- HereIGoAgain 4y ago
  You are aware that DDOSAs are illegal, and that KF doesn't do anything legally even questionable right? CF is an infrastructure service company and thus are the very LAST people who should be picking and choosing.. not if we want the net to keep working freely.
- bauruine 4y ago
  The owner of Kiwifarms, Joshua Moon has written an article about why being dropped by CloudFlare would he a huge threat to the site [0] [0]: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2021-10-28/where-sidewalk-ends-death-internet https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2021-10-28/where-sidewalk-end...
  - psyc 4y ago
    I am so disappointed in this species. I mean, I was before I read that too.
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    This article was extremely worth reading, thank you for posting.

gagand 4y ago

api 4y ago

That site is much worse than this article makes it sound (and it sounds bad). Here's a little more: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-a-terrible-story-about-96695551/ https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...

_9xrb 4y ago
[flagged]
- drcongo 4y ago
  This is pretty funny. Also, you've misspelled journalist.
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    He did journalism at one time. He’s a been a violent partisan activist for a while now. I see he’s still making the podcast. If you agree with Evans that burning police stations, courthouses, and condos with people inside is cool, as he and many others attempted in Portland for weeks in 2020, just say so. That’s actual violence, not whatever Internet trolls are doing on a message board.
- antifa 4y ago
  > to whom everyone right of Mao is fascist. This doesn't sound like an accurate description of a guy who openly critizes Stalin and whines all day about "tankies".
  - viridian 4y ago
    Sounds on brand for most of the Mao flavored anarkiddies I've had the displeasure of running into on reddit. Struggle sessioning other leftists with whom you share 99.9% of doctrine is as much a socialist past time as it is a protestant one.

xupybd 4y ago

Kiwi Farms is a horrible abomination. One of the worst cesspits on the internet. They were sharing videos of the Christchurch massacre right after it happened. As a New Zealander it felt doubly disrespectful that they'd share that and use the name Kiwi. All of that said I respect Cloudflare staying neutral on this. Free speech is only free if we defend the speech we hate the most. Free speech has a bad name today but if we de-platform everything that is disagreeable we'll squash our own freedoms along with it. One issue I have is that much of what happens there breaks laws. Cloudflare shouldn't have to step in to deal with that. Law enforcement should have the reach to bring criminals to justice offline and online.

HereIGoAgain 4y ago
What laws do they break?
- xupybd 4y ago
  If they're organizing swatting then that should be covered under conspiracy to commit a crime https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371 Swatting is incredibly dangerous. I fear many see it as a prank but when you get cops with guns charging into what they think is a dangerous situation then people get hurt. Then you have harassment laws https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/harassment.html https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/harassment.... There are specific Cyberstalking laws.
  - HereIGoAgain 4y ago
    The problem is that, much like the alleged body count, they do nothing of the sort. See my post above. They don't harass or even troll. It's literally one of the core rules of the site. Look (and laugh) but don't touch! If you ever try to organize something on-site, you'll get down-voted, your post deleted and potentially even banned. Attempting to swat isn't just not allowed on the site, but most members call out actual attempts as stupid, dangerous and evil! Posting publicly available info and then pointing and laughing, is not stalking or harassment.

corndoge 4y ago

FTA: > People on Twitter, as well as Sorrenti, claimed that the official Cloudflare account hid replies on its tweets related to dropping Kiwi Farms, and then deleted tweets that were ratioed by people talking about the campaign. Cloudflare’s Twitter account normally posted at least daily before this week, but hasn’t tweeted in four days, as of writing. What is the meaning of “ratioed” in this sentence?

xupybd 4y ago
Ratioed means the ratio of comments to like is very high. This normally means more people disagree than agree.
camdv 4y ago
From Know Your Meme: The Ratio or Ratioed refers to an unofficial Twitter law which states that if the amount of replies to a tweet greatly outnumbers the number of retweets and likes, then the tweet is bad. Additionally, "to ratio" a tweet means to make a quote retweet or reply that manages to get more likes and retweets than the quoted post.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
DanBC 4y ago
Cloudflare posts a tweet defending their action and it gets some likes. Keffals posts a reply tweet telling CF to drop KiwiFarms and that reply gets very many more likes than CloudFlare's original tweet. The ratio of likes is what's referred to as "ratioed".

computerfriend 4y ago

It is amazing to me that, some 300 years after the enlightenment, a very sizeable number of people still don't value free speech.

DanBC 4y ago
Post your full name and address.
- computerfriend 4y ago
  Not sure what point you're trying to make. But it doesn't seem to be in good faith, whatever it is.
  - DanBC 4y ago
    It's easy to call for freedom of speech for harassers and abusers when you're posting from an anonymous account. You think it's okay for this site to exist when a key feature is doxxing people's information. But you're too much of a coward to post your name and address to HN? Privacy for you, but not for the KF victims? This is hypocrisy. Put your money where your mouth is: post your name and address you fucking coward.
    - computerfriend 4y ago
      Posting anonymously is not cowardly.
      - cf 4y ago
        Then I suppose you won't mind me posting it for you right?
bitwize 4y ago
There is no government action here, only the principle of: The network interprets hate as noise and filters it out.

deepdriver 4y ago

thomassmith65 4y ago
These guys? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms If their availability suffers a little, it doesn't seem like a grave loss for the internet. It's not like there's a world-wide shortage of websites.
- deepdriver 4y ago
  That isn't how free speech or net neutrality works. Intimidating websites you don't like off the Internet, which is what Keffals et al are doing by trying to remove this site's DDoS protection so they can illegally force them offline, is corrosive to all types of online speech period. If KiwiFarms breaks the law, then by all means take down the website. Secondarily, I don't see anyone else-- journalists, politicians, NGOs, anyone-- doing this kind of deep dive into the sort of online harm Keffals represents. Grooming young children into bathtub-gin sex changes behind the backs of parents and doctors is monstrous. If the only people documenting this are Internet trolls on KiwiFarms, all the more reason to defend their civil rights until the rest of society comes to its senses.
  - Overtonwindow 4y ago
    It’s almost like a mob creating an environment so violent that the police can no longer maintain control so they withdraw, leaving the citizens and the businesses to burn…
emptyparadise 4y ago
DIY estrogen is the most hacker thing I've seen on this website (called Hacker News) for months.
- deepdriver 4y ago
  Telling confused children how to buy hormones with Bitcoin, inject themselves without medical supervision, and hide it all from parents isn't praiseworthy.

charcircuit 4y ago

>She claimed that users on Kiwi Farms, a notorious message board with a history of targeting and doxing vulnerable people, organized the raid and continued to harass her and numerous others. I recommend reading https://kiwifarms.net/help/how-is-the-kiwi-farms-legal/ https://kiwifarms.net/help/how-is-the-kiwi-farms-legal/ The site is legal and the majority of users follow the law. >8chan, a popular website for terrorist manifestos. It wasn't that popular of a site and it's purpose wasn't for terrorist manifestos. It's purpose was to be an image board where users could create their own boards. The global moderators took down content that was illegal to host in the US. The most popular topics of discussion were anime, politics, technology, and video games. Since the media was biased against the site, once an excuse came up to get the site taken down they pounced. They painted a misleading picture of what the site was about in hopes they could take down the site. They won and destroyed many innocent communities that called that site their home.

HereIGoAgain 4y ago

emptyparadise 4y ago
Did somebody post a link to HN on that site or something?
- psyc 4y ago
  They sure did! I don't know who tho. Wasn't me.
- notthisagain2 4y ago
  Yes they did: https://kiwifarms.net/search/15388568/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.ycombinator.com%2Fitem%3Fid%3D32574574&t=post&o=relevance https://kiwifarms.net/search/15388568/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.... I guess that's part of the reason why there are very specific accounts in this thread promoting obvious misinformation without citing any sources.
  - viridian 4y ago
    To be honest, having read through this entire thread, you are the only user that sticks out as having some below-the-surface agenda and hiding behind a new account. People in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
4y ago

threatofrain 4y ago

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/07/kiwi-farms-the-webs-biggest-community-of-stalkers.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/07/kiwi-farms-the-webs-... https://www.insider.com/chris-chan-arrest-what-is-kiwifarms-the-forum-exposed-her-2021-8 https://www.insider.com/chris-chan-arrest-what-is-kiwifarms-...

HereIGoAgain 4y ago
Those are pretty poor examples of anything. nymag doesn't even get basic facts correctly. If posting bias uninformed hit pieces is all it took to win debates then the world would be a pretty sad place.
- threatofrain 4y ago
  The nymag article has many links to archive.org historical versions of the site. People can judge for themselves by looking at the original facts instead of meta-commentary which attempts to summarize over facts. People can also visit Wikipedia for more links. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms
  - dmatech 4y ago
    If you look at the revision history of this (and related) pages, you'll see plenty of edits by people publicly campaigning for the takedown of that site on Twitter. I wouldn't trust Wikipedia to be unbiased given these conflicts of interest.
- notthisagain2 4y ago
  This comment is useless as it is, you can't dispute the veracity of the facts presented in the article without providing any kind of evidence yourself. Please, refrain from posting low-value comments like this one that add nothing to the conversation.

joecool1029 4y ago

Let's be clear: Kiwi Farms is a ball of hate just like the Daily Stormer is. But the reason CF hasn't dropped them is none of the site operators will make the claim Cloudflare are open supporters of Kiwi Farms, while DS's editor decided to be cocky and make these claims. Kiwi Farms operators can always distance itself from members calling for violence and ban the accounts when it gets out of hand, just as Reddit has done in the past. Cloudflare CEO's own words: https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ In short: Just claim Cloudflare are big Kiwi Farms supporters as many places you go. Eventually Matthew's ego will get bruised enough and the site will get taken down in another arbitrary manner.

HereIGoAgain 4y ago
>"Kiwi Farms is a ball of hate just like the Daily Stormer is" Do you have anything to back that up? KF isn't even a political site. >"Just claim Cloudflare are big Kiwi Farms supporters" Which would be an outright lie and easily disproven.
- Fatnino 4y ago
  Go there and look. Make up your own mind.
  - HereIGoAgain 4y ago
    To be clear, i was focusing mostly on the "just like the Daily Stormer" part. A literal neo-nazi site.
    - joecool1029 4y ago
      So one site publishes articles from a political (white nationalist) standpoint, the other hosts published dossiers on individuals that have ideologies site users either hate or behavior they think is funny. Point is, they both post shit about people and things they hate or want to ridicule. Do you dispute this?

Overtonwindow 4y ago

Unless they are breaking a law, an actual law not a moral one, then I think it’s abhorrent for Cloudflare to get in to the mob. Is there no service provider that is a free-speech absolutist? Maybe someone needs to start that service. Unless you’re breaking an actual law, not a moral law, then you should be able to build your service and have a website.

Trexmaster 4y ago

I think they're dropping it.