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> * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that

by 0x457 4y ago

> * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) I wouldn't be so sure. My Dell XPS 13 and ThinkPad X1 Carbon both had issues with suspend/resume. Close the lid @ get surprised with a completely dead battery. Ironically, when I used FreeBSD on X1 - S3 state worked perfectly fine. The issue in post is how bhyve handles wake up from S3 state, with devices being pass-through to the VM. Not once had a laptop that isn't a MacBook with macOS with properly working hibernation. > * Bluetooth not supported??? Yeah, BT stack is completely broken for years. No one has desire to fix it. > Ethernet over USB-C both highly unstable? - I had no issues with my no-name dongle. > I wonder if there is any laptop from the last 5 years where FreeBSD fully works. Define fully works? Graphics - you're limited to Nvidia and whatever Linux 5.4 supported. Wi-Fi - 802.11g is as fast as you can go without wifibox. > but these days I kinda expect most things to just work out of the box ... Even on Linux, you either have to deal with hardware that been out for some time or know how to install the latest kernel and maybe apply some patches. When I got my XPS, it was the first one with Intel Xe - had to use "unstable" kernel in NixOS with every other distro not having graphics output. This is still an issue in 2022: https://01.org/blogs/qwang59/2018/how-achieve-s0ix-states-linux https://01.org/blogs/qwang59/2018/how-achieve-s0ix-states-li...

Melatonic 4y ago
On Windows the first thing I always do is turn off hibernation. It made a bigger difference back in the day since the swap was on a spinning disk but it still has a little performance improvement and nets you a bit more ram. With machines booting up so fast these days I personally avoid anything related to hibernate / sleep.
- 0x457 4y ago
  True, but I never turn off my Mac unless I'm installing updates. A few times a year, I have an issue from resume (from Suspend to RAM) on a desktop - GPU won't wake up. When I had an Nvidia card, this issue would happen every other day, so I had to disable sleep and hibernate. Because it was a very shitty way to start your day.
- hatmatrix 4y ago
  Hibernate is the alternative to sleep if you don't want to overheat your laptop and kill your battery when you transport it in your carrying case (the "sleep" of Windows 10 will do that as it's made for tablets).
Melatonic 4y ago
Was actually also debating recently between the thinkpad and the dell - ended up based on cost with the XPS 15 - any other general tips or big gotchas running linux on it?
- 0x457 4y ago
  Not really, everything[1] works out of the box on new distros. I had to switch NixOS to Fedora, so I can run daemons required for compliance - at the time of F34 (or was it F35?) release thing worked well. Sometimes you need to enable legacy/linux ACPI state in BIOS. I think it maps S0ix to S3 or something like that. There is (was?) an issue with suspend on some intels and I had to tweak the behavior otherwise the laptop would keep going after you close the lid. I think both are solid laptops for linux. [1]: Everything I used and tried
binkHN 4y ago
I haven't used much of FreeBSD in quite a while and have largely settled for the simplicity that is OpenBSD, even with all its varied drawbacks. However, I was surprised with some other things you mentioned as I thought FreeBSD would do better than OpenBSD in these spaces: > Not once had a laptop that isn't a MacBook with macOS with properly working hibernation. OpenBSD can pull this off, though the process is not very performant. > ...802.11g is as fast as you can go without wifibox. There are a few different Wi-Fi card options that will support 11ac on OpenBSD. Yes, it's not the full 11ac implementation, but some is better than none.
mkozlows 4y ago
It's true that some hardware is not Linux compatible, but if you get stuff that is (like the Framework 12th gen I'm typing this on), it does in fact just work out of the box. Wifi, sound, GPU, fingerprint reader, suspend, the works.
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  I had a laptop on the Ubuntu Certified hardware list (https://ubuntu.com/certified https://ubuntu.com/certified) some HP model. Suspend still didn't work. Is there a list I have not found?
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Were you running Ubuntu and the specific Ubuntu Release + Device model combo they outline on the website? Anything outside of that would be outside of the scope of that list. Much better resource is reading various wikis and user forums, I found.
hericium 4y ago
> Graphics - you're limited to Nvidia and whatever Linux 5.4 supported. There's full Xorg GPU acceleration on AMD cards with drm-kmod[1] > Wi-Fi - 802.11g is as fast as you can go without wifibox. Some 5GHz 80211n cards will work. There's no support for ac/ax but at least you're not limited to overcrowded 2.4GHz. [1] https://github.com/freebsd/drm-kmod https://github.com/freebsd/drm-kmod
- 0x457 4y ago
  Yes, and look at the version of that `drm-kmod` 5.10 and 5.4. Take a look which cards are supported on those versions. The only reason I stopped running FreeBSD on desktop is that my 6900 XT is still not supported.

by 0x457 4y ago

Melatonic 4y ago

On Windows the first thing I always do is turn off hibernation. It made a bigger difference back in the day since the swap was on a spinning disk but it still has a little performance improvement and nets you a bit more ram. With machines booting up so fast these days I personally avoid anything related to hibernate / sleep.

0x457 4y ago
True, but I never turn off my Mac unless I'm installing updates. A few times a year, I have an issue from resume (from Suspend to RAM) on a desktop - GPU won't wake up. When I had an Nvidia card, this issue would happen every other day, so I had to disable sleep and hibernate. Because it was a very shitty way to start your day.
hatmatrix 4y ago
Hibernate is the alternative to sleep if you don't want to overheat your laptop and kill your battery when you transport it in your carrying case (the "sleep" of Windows 10 will do that as it's made for tablets).

Melatonic 4y ago

Was actually also debating recently between the thinkpad and the dell - ended up based on cost with the XPS 15 - any other general tips or big gotchas running linux on it?

0x457 4y ago
Not really, everything[1] works out of the box on new distros. I had to switch NixOS to Fedora, so I can run daemons required for compliance - at the time of F34 (or was it F35?) release thing worked well. Sometimes you need to enable legacy/linux ACPI state in BIOS. I think it maps S0ix to S3 or something like that. There is (was?) an issue with suspend on some intels and I had to tweak the behavior otherwise the laptop would keep going after you close the lid. I think both are solid laptops for linux. [1]: Everything I used and tried

binkHN 4y ago

I haven't used much of FreeBSD in quite a while and have largely settled for the simplicity that is OpenBSD, even with all its varied drawbacks. However, I was surprised with some other things you mentioned as I thought FreeBSD would do better than OpenBSD in these spaces: > Not once had a laptop that isn't a MacBook with macOS with properly working hibernation. OpenBSD can pull this off, though the process is not very performant. > ...802.11g is as fast as you can go without wifibox. There are a few different Wi-Fi card options that will support 11ac on OpenBSD. Yes, it's not the full 11ac implementation, but some is better than none.

mkozlows 4y ago

It's true that some hardware is not Linux compatible, but if you get stuff that is (like the Framework 12th gen I'm typing this on), it does in fact just work out of the box. Wifi, sound, GPU, fingerprint reader, suspend, the works.

2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
I had a laptop on the Ubuntu Certified hardware list (https://ubuntu.com/certified https://ubuntu.com/certified) some HP model. Suspend still didn't work. Is there a list I have not found?
- capableweb 4y ago
  Were you running Ubuntu and the specific Ubuntu Release + Device model combo they outline on the website? Anything outside of that would be outside of the scope of that list. Much better resource is reading various wikis and user forums, I found.

hericium 4y ago

> Graphics - you're limited to Nvidia and whatever Linux 5.4 supported. There's full Xorg GPU acceleration on AMD cards with drm-kmod[1] > Wi-Fi - 802.11g is as fast as you can go without wifibox. Some 5GHz 80211n cards will work. There's no support for ac/ax but at least you're not limited to overcrowded 2.4GHz. [1] https://github.com/freebsd/drm-kmod https://github.com/freebsd/drm-kmod

0x457 4y ago
Yes, and look at the version of that `drm-kmod` 5.10 and 5.4. Take a look which cards are supported on those versions. The only reason I stopped running FreeBSD on desktop is that my 6900 XT is still not supported.