9 ms·

Man, FreeBSD really needs some driver love... * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that h

Man, FreeBSD really needs some driver love... * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) * WiFi driver and Ethernet over USB-C both highly unstable? That's an Intel chipset, those are usually the more stable ones (at least on Linux/Windows), and the wire ethernet is not a cheapo chipset either (Realtek) * Bluetooth not supported??? * microSD slot on USB-C docking station doesn't work? This is just SPI, how hard can that be... I wonder if there is any laptop from the last 5 years where FreeBSD fully works. I keep trying FreeBSD on and off on my two Laptops but I had similar experiences (plus I'm not used to the FreeBSD way of doing things). I'm ready to jump through some hoops but in my case, FreeBSD was always removed after a weekend or so, and replaced with Linux where everything just works. I used to tinker a lot to get Linux and BSD running on hardware, but these days I kinda expect most things to just work out of the box ... I really wish FreeBSD would get some more developer backing

cowtools 4y ago
if FreeBSD had a copyleft license, maybe companies would have a reason to publish their drivers, or you could port drivers from Linux.
- keewee7 4y ago
  Aren't most Linux drivers closed source binary blobs?
  - cowtools 4y ago
    The nvidia drivers sure are. I don't know about most drivers though. As for wifi, I own this ath9k card which I'm told is completely free, but I also own this intel 3160 chip that apparently requires some firmware to be loaded. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open-source_wireless_drivers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open-source_wire...
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      Funny, a decade ago the story was "atheros is evil" and Intel was the Linux darling. How things change..
  - minimaul 4y ago
    No? The vast majority of hardware has OSS drivers (and they're usually even the better choice!) - the big exception here for average machines is NVIDIA.
    - anthk 4y ago
      AMD cards depend on non-free firmware.
      - tremon 4y ago
        And both Intel and AMD processors use non-free microcode. Firmware and drivers are distinct units, as only one of them runs on the CPU.
        anthk 4y ago
        Not on libre distros. I mean, not more than loading the burned one.
  - salawat 4y ago
    No. You're thinking firmware. The driver layer (code around firmware that initializes the hardware and marshals/unmarshals comms to/from the device).tends to be GPL lest it taint the kernel. The firmware on the other hand, is the last unconquered vestige of the Open Source landscape. Logic locking, and the prevalence/nature of fabless semiconductor IP tends to make that endeavor incredibly difficult.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    "most" and "drivers" are things that need specific usages to be true, but if you drop them and restate, you're absolutely right. It is really hard to have a complete personal computer on Linux or any other OS that doesn't require closed source / proprietary binary blobs.
    - anthk 4y ago
      Not at all, my Intel NUC except for the tiny wireless dongle totally runs with libre drivers.
      - colechristensen 4y ago
        Firmware blob free?
        anthk 4y ago
        Yep, with Linux libre, I tried it. Now I run OpenBSD, and I could purge /etc/firmware with no issues if I wanted.
- filmgirlcw 4y ago
  That’s probably true but it cuts both ways too. I don’t know if the lack of copy left license is the problem as much as the momentum. The various Unix and BSD wars (that were predicated on a much different licensing challenge) and splintering of the communities has meant there was never a big way for developer or even manufacturer interest to really focus. OpenBSD has a very different philosophy related to drivers than FreeBSD and for very understandable reasons, most of the BSDs don’t want to use or touch GPL code. The copyleft nature of the GPL definitely helped Linux, but I don’t think it’s the only reason Linux was successful. But Linux got its shit together first and was able to benefit from that. Apple and to a lesser-extent, Solaris, show that you can still have broader hardware support and drivers without a copyleft license. I do think that if companies could easily port their Linux drivers, you’d see that happen. That’s absolutely a consequence of the license choice (and it’s a consequence from either license decision). But if there is a market for the BSDs in a particular area, I do think you see companies making drivers. The reality is, the market for people running FreeBSD on laptops is pretty small and probably not worth it for a lot of WiFi chipset makers. But if you had a specific industry where FreeBSD was widely deployed, I do think you’d have broader hardware support for things important to that industry, if nothing else.
  - dark-star 4y ago
    From what I heard, at least some companies that use FreeBSD in their products do give back and upstream at least bits of their code (like Sony, NetApp, ...). Probably mostly improvements to existing kernel subsystems, maybe not drivers, if the hardware isn't freely available... but they still participate in development. At the end of the day, it is in their interest as it lessens the maintenance burden of forward-porting everything to every new kernel version.
    - filmgirlcw 4y ago
      Correct! And that’s sort of my point. But I don’t think a lot of those companies care about wifi drivers working on laptops, as an example. It is absolutely in their interest to help. But if people expect companies to just write a driver for X operating system, that’s not realistic. And if you could just port the Linux drivers, sure, that would be easier, but it wouldn’t change the fact that device makers still have the be able to prioritize where to put their resources. And laptop FreeBSD users is probably really low on most lists.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  I am glad FreeBSD exists. Not every commercial venture has the luxury to release their source code, even if they wanted to. If you're writing software for banks or defense, the source needs to be closed. FreeBSD enables these companies to exist and while consumer grade drivers are not available, many things in FreeBSD are rock solid. Thanks to commercial contributions.
  - doublerabbit 4y ago
    For my hobby server of 1000+ days [1] uptime with ram failing. A raid controller on the brink. I've amazed at the solidarity of FreeBSD. [1] https://i.redd.it/2omcrsz8ut691.png https://i.redd.it/2omcrsz8ut691.png * i am aware how in todays time you shouldn't, updates, and blah blah. But not required.
    - systemvoltage 4y ago
      Are you saying FreeBSD is not robust? Did you confirm that it is the operating system that is leaking memory and not your application? If that's true, that's huge and you should file a report. Better yet, write a blog post about the details and how to recreate it.
      - kevans91 4y ago
        I read that as "the hardware is failing but FreeBSD is still trucking right along"
        systemvoltage 4y ago
        My bad, I misunderstood as sarcasm.
  - cowtools 4y ago
    I disagree. Work on permissively licensed software typically has the net effect of decreasing global freedom by reducing the costs of corporations to produce proprietary software. I try to avoid contributing to permissively-licensed software when possible, and I prefer to co-operate with businesses that use free software to avoid vendor lock-in as much as possible. Why should we all do free work for corporations? At least with the GPL you can negotiate a commercial license in exchange for money, but with a permissive license you forfeit your ability to do that. This article accurately sums up my point of view: https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/why-i-use-the-gpl-and-not-cuck-licenses/ https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/why-i-use-the-gpl-and-not-cuc... Also, the GPL does not require you to share the source code for programs that you do not distribute outside your company.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  What company do you think is writing FreeBSD drivers for the framework - or any laptop - and not sharing them?
- inopinatus 4y ago
  If FreeBSD was encumbered with copyleft then half the contributors would leave, and the sectors in which it is widely used would seek an alternative. Pretty sure any “port” of Linux drivers would be in effect a substantial rewrite, for the dissimilar kernel structures and coding standards.
- kergonath 4y ago
  Yeah, because Linux’s copyleft is what forced nVidia to publish decent open source drivers 15 years ago.
  - cowtools 4y ago
    I would say that linux isn't able to strong-arm nvidia into complying because nvidia can just go back to distributing their closed-source driver on permissively-licensed OSes such as BSD.
    - ninjin 4y ago
      I have a hard time making the parent comment even making logical sense. So the reason we are not seeing say open CUDA drivers from NVIDIA for Linux is that they instead distribute closed ones for permissively licensed operating systems such as FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Illumos, MINIX, Plan9, etc.? Which (apart from all lacking CUDA drivers) all universally have less support from hardware manufacturers both when it comes to open and closed drivers across the board? ERRNOLOGIC. You are aware that FreeBSD got closed NVIDIA graphics driver support about a decade after Linux? It is also the only operating system with a permissive license that I am aware of NVIDIA ever supporting. Alternatively, are you trying to refer to that some game consoles used FreeBSD as a basis and had proprietary NVIDIA drivers written for them? You are aware that there is nothing stopping them from doing exactly the same thing with Linux? You are free to believe in “licensing magic” being a solution as much as you want, but I think that you will find that it all has much more to do with what NVIDIA is ultimately all about: Shipping as many cards as is humanly possible while maintaining a borderline monopoly maximising profits.
      - magic_quotes 4y ago
        > FreeBSD got closed NVIDIA graphics driver support about a decade after Linux Ahem, https://cgit.freebsd.org/ports/commit/?id=94fc89fbfbc7cd8886e9742a2889a5ed8ede4bbc https://cgit.freebsd.org/ports/commit/?id=94fc89fbfbc7cd8886... > some game consoles used FreeBSD as a basis and had proprietary NVIDIA drivers written for them You mean proprietary AMD drivers? (Only PlayStation 4 and 5 are based on FreeBSD.)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
vbernat 4y ago
Ethernet is likely a Realtek chipset (on the docking station). Intel does not do Ethernet over USB chipsets.
- rjsw 4y ago
  The Ethernet expansion card uses a Realtek 2.5Gb/s controller with a USB-C connection to the laptop. This is a fairly new controller that may not have a FreeBSD driver yet.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
> This is just SPI It isn't "just SPI". That is a fallback protocol for the full SD interface.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  SPI is the other interface. Both are legit and official.
0x457 4y ago
> * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) I wouldn't be so sure. My Dell XPS 13 and ThinkPad X1 Carbon both had issues with suspend/resume. Close the lid @ get surprised with a completely dead battery. Ironically, when I used FreeBSD on X1 - S3 state worked perfectly fine. The issue in post is how bhyve handles wake up from S3 state, with devices being pass-through to the VM. Not once had a laptop that isn't a MacBook with macOS with properly working hibernation. > * Bluetooth not supported??? Yeah, BT stack is completely broken for years. No one has desire to fix it. > Ethernet over USB-C both highly unstable? - I had no issues with my no-name dongle. > I wonder if there is any laptop from the last 5 years where FreeBSD fully works. Define fully works? Graphics - you're limited to Nvidia and whatever Linux 5.4 supported. Wi-Fi - 802.11g is as fast as you can go without wifibox. > but these days I kinda expect most things to just work out of the box ... Even on Linux, you either have to deal with hardware that been out for some time or know how to install the latest kernel and maybe apply some patches. When I got my XPS, it was the first one with Intel Xe - had to use "unstable" kernel in NixOS with every other distro not having graphics output. This is still an issue in 2022: https://01.org/blogs/qwang59/2018/how-achieve-s0ix-states-linux https://01.org/blogs/qwang59/2018/how-achieve-s0ix-states-li...
- Melatonic 4y ago
  On Windows the first thing I always do is turn off hibernation. It made a bigger difference back in the day since the swap was on a spinning disk but it still has a little performance improvement and nets you a bit more ram. With machines booting up so fast these days I personally avoid anything related to hibernate / sleep.
  - 0x457 4y ago
    True, but I never turn off my Mac unless I'm installing updates. A few times a year, I have an issue from resume (from Suspend to RAM) on a desktop - GPU won't wake up. When I had an Nvidia card, this issue would happen every other day, so I had to disable sleep and hibernate. Because it was a very shitty way to start your day.
sillystuff 4y ago
I have that same intel wifi nic. On Linux, it also caused crashes on resume from suspend to disk (worked OK on resume from S3 suspend to ram). I added a hook script, that on suspend to disk, downs the interface, if it was up, and unloads the kernel module before suspend. It reloads the module on resume, and if interface was up before suspend, it brings the interface back up. Now resume from suspend to disk is reliable. Not sure if the hook script is still necessary (kernel version has updated a couple times since), but it doesn't cause any issues, so I haven't taken the time to check. Not exactly "worked out of the box". Easy fix, but the same fix is available on *bsd too.
truthbsd 4y ago
- slater 4y ago
  i... what...?
GekkePrutser 4y ago
> No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) I believe the article author calls this "Sleep" and got it to work well. It's hibernation to disk that's not working. WiFi and Bluetooth seem indeed to be issues but I don't really need them on my desktop. On a laptop it would be a dealbreaker indeed.
mschuster91 4y ago
> and the wire ethernet is not a cheapo chipset either (Realtek) Buying Realtek does not guarantee getting good hardware, the RTL8153 is infamous [0], and I remember there were reports about Realtek chips flooding the network with corrupt packets if they were powered on via the charger but not connected to a laptop. [0] https://overengineer.dev/blog/2021/04/25/usb-c-hub-madness.html https://overengineer.dev/blog/2021/04/25/usb-c-hub-madness.h...
- dark-star 4y ago
  Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. I have used Realtek chips in various computers over the last 15 years or so and they were all quite stable, that's why I jumped to that conclusion
stockerta 4y ago
> * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) I have an older Thinkpad that I swtiched back to Windows after getting fed up with suspend and hibernate on linux. It had like a 20% chance to suspend or hibernate, other times it did nothing. Screen went black and after 2-3s I was back at the login screen. Shutdown was reliable so when in a hurry I needed to do a full shutdown.

cowtools 4y ago

if FreeBSD had a copyleft license, maybe companies would have a reason to publish their drivers, or you could port drivers from Linux.

keewee7 4y ago
Aren't most Linux drivers closed source binary blobs?
- cowtools 4y ago
  The nvidia drivers sure are. I don't know about most drivers though. As for wifi, I own this ath9k card which I'm told is completely free, but I also own this intel 3160 chip that apparently requires some firmware to be loaded. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open-source_wireless_drivers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open-source_wire...
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Funny, a decade ago the story was "atheros is evil" and Intel was the Linux darling. How things change..
- minimaul 4y ago
  No? The vast majority of hardware has OSS drivers (and they're usually even the better choice!) - the big exception here for average machines is NVIDIA.
  - anthk 4y ago
    AMD cards depend on non-free firmware.
    - tremon 4y ago
      And both Intel and AMD processors use non-free microcode. Firmware and drivers are distinct units, as only one of them runs on the CPU.
      - anthk 4y ago
        Not on libre distros. I mean, not more than loading the burned one.
- salawat 4y ago
  No. You're thinking firmware. The driver layer (code around firmware that initializes the hardware and marshals/unmarshals comms to/from the device).tends to be GPL lest it taint the kernel. The firmware on the other hand, is the last unconquered vestige of the Open Source landscape. Logic locking, and the prevalence/nature of fabless semiconductor IP tends to make that endeavor incredibly difficult.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  "most" and "drivers" are things that need specific usages to be true, but if you drop them and restate, you're absolutely right. It is really hard to have a complete personal computer on Linux or any other OS that doesn't require closed source / proprietary binary blobs.
  - anthk 4y ago
    Not at all, my Intel NUC except for the tiny wireless dongle totally runs with libre drivers.
    - colechristensen 4y ago
      Firmware blob free?
      - anthk 4y ago
        Yep, with Linux libre, I tried it. Now I run OpenBSD, and I could purge /etc/firmware with no issues if I wanted.
filmgirlcw 4y ago
That’s probably true but it cuts both ways too. I don’t know if the lack of copy left license is the problem as much as the momentum. The various Unix and BSD wars (that were predicated on a much different licensing challenge) and splintering of the communities has meant there was never a big way for developer or even manufacturer interest to really focus. OpenBSD has a very different philosophy related to drivers than FreeBSD and for very understandable reasons, most of the BSDs don’t want to use or touch GPL code. The copyleft nature of the GPL definitely helped Linux, but I don’t think it’s the only reason Linux was successful. But Linux got its shit together first and was able to benefit from that. Apple and to a lesser-extent, Solaris, show that you can still have broader hardware support and drivers without a copyleft license. I do think that if companies could easily port their Linux drivers, you’d see that happen. That’s absolutely a consequence of the license choice (and it’s a consequence from either license decision). But if there is a market for the BSDs in a particular area, I do think you see companies making drivers. The reality is, the market for people running FreeBSD on laptops is pretty small and probably not worth it for a lot of WiFi chipset makers. But if you had a specific industry where FreeBSD was widely deployed, I do think you’d have broader hardware support for things important to that industry, if nothing else.
- dark-star 4y ago
  From what I heard, at least some companies that use FreeBSD in their products do give back and upstream at least bits of their code (like Sony, NetApp, ...). Probably mostly improvements to existing kernel subsystems, maybe not drivers, if the hardware isn't freely available... but they still participate in development. At the end of the day, it is in their interest as it lessens the maintenance burden of forward-porting everything to every new kernel version.
  - filmgirlcw 4y ago
    Correct! And that’s sort of my point. But I don’t think a lot of those companies care about wifi drivers working on laptops, as an example. It is absolutely in their interest to help. But if people expect companies to just write a driver for X operating system, that’s not realistic. And if you could just port the Linux drivers, sure, that would be easier, but it wouldn’t change the fact that device makers still have the be able to prioritize where to put their resources. And laptop FreeBSD users is probably really low on most lists.
systemvoltage 4y ago
I am glad FreeBSD exists. Not every commercial venture has the luxury to release their source code, even if they wanted to. If you're writing software for banks or defense, the source needs to be closed. FreeBSD enables these companies to exist and while consumer grade drivers are not available, many things in FreeBSD are rock solid. Thanks to commercial contributions.
- doublerabbit 4y ago
  For my hobby server of 1000+ days [1] uptime with ram failing. A raid controller on the brink. I've amazed at the solidarity of FreeBSD. [1] https://i.redd.it/2omcrsz8ut691.png https://i.redd.it/2omcrsz8ut691.png * i am aware how in todays time you shouldn't, updates, and blah blah. But not required.
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    Are you saying FreeBSD is not robust? Did you confirm that it is the operating system that is leaking memory and not your application? If that's true, that's huge and you should file a report. Better yet, write a blog post about the details and how to recreate it.
    - kevans91 4y ago
      I read that as "the hardware is failing but FreeBSD is still trucking right along"
      - systemvoltage 4y ago
        My bad, I misunderstood as sarcasm.
- cowtools 4y ago
  I disagree. Work on permissively licensed software typically has the net effect of decreasing global freedom by reducing the costs of corporations to produce proprietary software. I try to avoid contributing to permissively-licensed software when possible, and I prefer to co-operate with businesses that use free software to avoid vendor lock-in as much as possible. Why should we all do free work for corporations? At least with the GPL you can negotiate a commercial license in exchange for money, but with a permissive license you forfeit your ability to do that. This article accurately sums up my point of view: https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/why-i-use-the-gpl-and-not-cuck-licenses/ https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/why-i-use-the-gpl-and-not-cuc... Also, the GPL does not require you to share the source code for programs that you do not distribute outside your company.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
What company do you think is writing FreeBSD drivers for the framework - or any laptop - and not sharing them?
inopinatus 4y ago
If FreeBSD was encumbered with copyleft then half the contributors would leave, and the sectors in which it is widely used would seek an alternative. Pretty sure any “port” of Linux drivers would be in effect a substantial rewrite, for the dissimilar kernel structures and coding standards.
kergonath 4y ago
Yeah, because Linux’s copyleft is what forced nVidia to publish decent open source drivers 15 years ago.
- cowtools 4y ago
  I would say that linux isn't able to strong-arm nvidia into complying because nvidia can just go back to distributing their closed-source driver on permissively-licensed OSes such as BSD.
  - ninjin 4y ago
    I have a hard time making the parent comment even making logical sense. So the reason we are not seeing say open CUDA drivers from NVIDIA for Linux is that they instead distribute closed ones for permissively licensed operating systems such as FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Illumos, MINIX, Plan9, etc.? Which (apart from all lacking CUDA drivers) all universally have less support from hardware manufacturers both when it comes to open and closed drivers across the board? ERRNOLOGIC. You are aware that FreeBSD got closed NVIDIA graphics driver support about a decade after Linux? It is also the only operating system with a permissive license that I am aware of NVIDIA ever supporting. Alternatively, are you trying to refer to that some game consoles used FreeBSD as a basis and had proprietary NVIDIA drivers written for them? You are aware that there is nothing stopping them from doing exactly the same thing with Linux? You are free to believe in “licensing magic” being a solution as much as you want, but I think that you will find that it all has much more to do with what NVIDIA is ultimately all about: Shipping as many cards as is humanly possible while maintaining a borderline monopoly maximising profits.
    - magic_quotes 4y ago
      > FreeBSD got closed NVIDIA graphics driver support about a decade after Linux Ahem, https://cgit.freebsd.org/ports/commit/?id=94fc89fbfbc7cd8886e9742a2889a5ed8ede4bbc https://cgit.freebsd.org/ports/commit/?id=94fc89fbfbc7cd8886... > some game consoles used FreeBSD as a basis and had proprietary NVIDIA drivers written for them You mean proprietary AMD drivers? (Only PlayStation 4 and 5 are based on FreeBSD.)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

vbernat 4y ago

Ethernet is likely a Realtek chipset (on the docking station). Intel does not do Ethernet over USB chipsets.

rjsw 4y ago
The Ethernet expansion card uses a Realtek 2.5Gb/s controller with a USB-C connection to the laptop. This is a fairly new controller that may not have a FreeBSD driver yet.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago

> This is just SPI It isn't "just SPI". That is a fallback protocol for the full SD interface.

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
SPI is the other interface. Both are legit and official.

0x457 4y ago

> * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) I wouldn't be so sure. My Dell XPS 13 and ThinkPad X1 Carbon both had issues with suspend/resume. Close the lid @ get surprised with a completely dead battery. Ironically, when I used FreeBSD on X1 - S3 state worked perfectly fine. The issue in post is how bhyve handles wake up from S3 state, with devices being pass-through to the VM. Not once had a laptop that isn't a MacBook with macOS with properly working hibernation. > * Bluetooth not supported??? Yeah, BT stack is completely broken for years. No one has desire to fix it. > Ethernet over USB-C both highly unstable? - I had no issues with my no-name dongle. > I wonder if there is any laptop from the last 5 years where FreeBSD fully works. Define fully works? Graphics - you're limited to Nvidia and whatever Linux 5.4 supported. Wi-Fi - 802.11g is as fast as you can go without wifibox. > but these days I kinda expect most things to just work out of the box ... Even on Linux, you either have to deal with hardware that been out for some time or know how to install the latest kernel and maybe apply some patches. When I got my XPS, it was the first one with Intel Xe - had to use "unstable" kernel in NixOS with every other distro not having graphics output. This is still an issue in 2022: https://01.org/blogs/qwang59/2018/how-achieve-s0ix-states-linux https://01.org/blogs/qwang59/2018/how-achieve-s0ix-states-li...

Melatonic 4y ago
On Windows the first thing I always do is turn off hibernation. It made a bigger difference back in the day since the swap was on a spinning disk but it still has a little performance improvement and nets you a bit more ram. With machines booting up so fast these days I personally avoid anything related to hibernate / sleep.
- 0x457 4y ago
  True, but I never turn off my Mac unless I'm installing updates. A few times a year, I have an issue from resume (from Suspend to RAM) on a desktop - GPU won't wake up. When I had an Nvidia card, this issue would happen every other day, so I had to disable sleep and hibernate. Because it was a very shitty way to start your day.

sillystuff 4y ago

I have that same intel wifi nic. On Linux, it also caused crashes on resume from suspend to disk (worked OK on resume from S3 suspend to ram). I added a hook script, that on suspend to disk, downs the interface, if it was up, and unloads the kernel module before suspend. It reloads the module on resume, and if interface was up before suspend, it brings the interface back up. Now resume from suspend to disk is reliable. Not sure if the hook script is still necessary (kernel version has updated a couple times since), but it doesn't cause any issues, so I haven't taken the time to check. Not exactly "worked out of the box". Easy fix, but the same fix is available on *bsd too.

truthbsd 4y ago

slater 4y ago
i... what...?

GekkePrutser 4y ago

> No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) I believe the article author calls this "Sleep" and got it to work well. It's hibernation to disk that's not working. WiFi and Bluetooth seem indeed to be issues but I don't really need them on my desktop. On a laptop it would be a dealbreaker indeed.

mschuster91 4y ago

> and the wire ethernet is not a cheapo chipset either (Realtek) Buying Realtek does not guarantee getting good hardware, the RTL8153 is infamous [0], and I remember there were reports about Realtek chips flooding the network with corrupt packets if they were powered on via the charger but not connected to a laptop. [0] https://overengineer.dev/blog/2021/04/25/usb-c-hub-madness.html https://overengineer.dev/blog/2021/04/25/usb-c-hub-madness.h...

dark-star 4y ago
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. I have used Realtek chips in various computers over the last 15 years or so and they were all quite stable, that's why I jumped to that conclusion

stockerta 4y ago

> * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) I have an older Thinkpad that I swtiched back to Windows after getting fed up with suspend and hibernate on linux. It had like a 20% chance to suspend or hibernate, other times it did nothing. Screen went black and after 2-3s I was back at the login screen. Shutdown was reliable so when in a hurry I needed to do a full shutdown.